Hey guys,

Well its official, the M80s will be ordered, I have ordered real rosewood samples from Axiom, hopefully they will get here next week so I can make the decision with my wife. She is fully in favour of me getting Rosewood M80s in full gloss!!! It was a tough choice, for now it was either one pair of rosewood high gloss M80s, or 2 M80s, and 2 QS8s HG Cherry for the same price...but she knows, and I know, that I REALLY want the rosewoods and would be compromising if I didn't get them.

I also found a used LPA-1 here in the states that is already being delivered to my place. Once i make the order for the M80s, I will pick up the RX-V663 from 6th Ave, I guess if you order over the phone and ask for the avsforum discount, they will sell one for $359 including shipping!! Man I Love the states!!!

Wish me luck that both my wife and I like the same stain of rosewood. I really dig the natural because of the grain standing out, but she likes a "redish" stain...As long as the grain stands out I am ok with a more red stain, it will probably be between the "Bordeaux" stain and the "Red" stain (which I think is a new stain, I haven't noticed it before).

I am pretty busy every day here studying and getting ready for school...I hope to pop into the boards more often, I'll update you guys once I know which stain I am getting.

I my 2000th post was suited with an announcement to join the 80s club...man I am excited

later!

-Robb.

go luck with the stain and welcome to the amazingly satisfied club of M80 owners!!

I shall be waiting for the pics of the new system.

Anybody want to purchase some m80's, just kidding. Welcome to the club.

From your pics in “Hutzal’s old Theatre” link it looks like you already had a sweet setup and now the M80s.

Good on ya!
Dean

Dude, pictures are a prerequisite whenever new digs are received ... and you know that.

Congrats Robb!

Good job, Robb!!

Can't wait to see some pics of the speaker finish you chose.

Congats, the rosewood finish should be sweet.

Now thats a nice way to celebrate your 2000th post!!

I think you'll get a lot of grain, even with a stain.

Those speakers are are sold off to my brother...he got a killer deal on them too!

Of course! I wouldn't even think of opening up my speakers without posting pics of the boxes first!

[quote=HutzalOf course! I wouldn't even think of opening up my speakers without posting pics of the boxes first! [/quote]
Er.... you might want to post picture also AFTER you take the speakers out of the boxes... especially since they have a nice finish.

Well, the order has been made!!

My wife and I both agreed that the Rosewood Bordeaux stain was the way to go. I was/am a little worried about getting such a dark stain with the Rosewood and the grain not showing as well. On the sample we received the grain was coming through very well.

They estimated 6 weeks for delivery!!!! Wish me luck in this time of waiting...

Best of luck with the shipping too!!!! Can't wait to see pictures of them.

Never thought I would see the day, congrats and welcome to the M80 club.

Congrats Robb, now that you're in LA remember to lock the doors.

Oh believe me, in Calgary you could get away without locking the house, here, you for sure need to be mindful when you leave the apartment

I wouldn't leave the house open in Calgary any more either. I left my truck unlocked for a night and someone stole my sunglasses, cell phone, and as we later discovered, our spare set of keys for the second car that were left in the truck. $700 later we now have new locks and keys for the Toyota. I am sure not going to leave my house door open for them to walk in. Although I have inadvertently left the garage door and the truck open many times before, no longer.

Hmm... When you figure out how to stop doing things inadvertently, let me know.

I check my truck before I go to work now, so that is covered. So far as the garage goes, well that is up to my wife and all I can do is hope she remembers to check that the boys didn't open it after I leave for work.

Jason,

you're actually right, I think Calgary is getting more unsafe than it was in past years.

On another note, I switched my order to Rosewood Natural stain High Gloss...I feel much...much, better. phew. My LPA-1 arrived today...MUCH heavier than I thought it was going to be...I think its around 70lbs...

I only have 1" clearance on my bottom rack, but its open on all sides, I think heat will not be an issue...now I have to stare at this LPA-1 for 6 weeks with no speakers...

Now that is a very sad place to be. I will crank mine up for you over the next few weeks.

So here's a naive question, in terms of power supplied and the resulting noticeable effects on audio, what does the 70lb LPA-1 have that a wimpy 40lb AVR like the Denon 3808 does not?

The 3808 is spec'd at 130x7 into 8 ohms (they don't list the specs into 4 ohms though... anyone know?)

The LPA-1 is 125x5 and 50x2 into 8 ohms or 210x5 + 95x2 into 4 ohms.

I'm guessing measured distortion in a dedicated amp has lower ratings... is it so much to be noticeable by the average ear? Are there other differences? (other than a noticeably hotter A/V closet?!)

I'm not trying to start a firestorm here... I've recently started looking more into dedicated amps and am truly curious about the question above.

Thanks,

Jason

One thing that differentiates dedicated power amps from AVR's and is mentioned regularly is the REAL power ratings when ALL channels are driven at the same time. Power amps give you all the rated power but most AVR's list power per channel usually with only ONE channel driven. When all are driven at the same time the actual levels can drop significantly. I am currently running a Yamaha receiver (pre-out) into two Outlaw multi-channel power amps with the eventual desire to buy a pre-pro from Outlaw, Emotiva or even Axiom should they eventually decide to offer one. I can't honestly say that the separate amps were significantly better than the internal amps in the Yamaha but separate power amps never go obsolete and they are much more flexible when it comes to handling speakers of varying ohm ratings.

It is often said that the electronics in seperates are of higher quality and offer better performance, ie faster attack and quicker response, other than that there isn't much difference as anything below 1% THD is unaudible, which most avr's and seperates are rated at. So far as most avrs not rated with all channels driven, well that is wrong, I agree some are rated this way, but most of the ones mentioned on this forum are measured with all channels driven at least as far I can tell from independent tests you can find on the internet. Some even exceed their ratings.

Jason - agreed on the 3808, I've read a few reviews that confirmed they provide full power to all channels independently.

Has anyone seen measured power output ratings for the 3808 at 4 ohms? (or is it a standard math equation that turns 8 ohm output into 4 ohm output?)

Thanks,

Jason

In a perfect world the power would double. We all know that is not the case, it should be around a 50% increase.

All I know is that I got an LPA-1 for $470, and I am going to get an RX-V663 for $360 for a total of $830, which is CHEAPER than a 3808, so why the heck not??

LPA-1 rates 125 watts into 8 ohms, and 225 watts (I think, I know its over 200 watts) into 4 ohms.

Rebel!

Interesting... in that case, the Denon is feeding close to 200 wpc into my M80s... (even at 50% more power at 4ohms)

I'd have to spend some serious coin on an amplifier to do considerably better than that. I'll dig around and see if I can find tested ratings on the 3808 at 4 ohms.

This may help, I'm not technically proficient enough to understand what it all means. 3808ci measurments

Nice find homedad, 238W at 0.1% distortion into 4 ohms,, I think I can wait till I can afford the A1400 before any more receiver upgrades.

Not only does the Denon do 238W at .1%, but 277.3 watts at 1% distortion. (and with the receiver crushing out 270+ watts, I'm sure my ears would be bleeding, so they wouldn't mind the 1% distortion).

So much for my need for 2 x 230 watt Behringer A500 Amp we were discussing separately (at least for 2-channel listening).

The numbers above were with two channels driven, and the charts there do note significant differences between 2 and 5 or 7 channels driven at the same time. (note that at 7 channels driven, it is producing less than 113 wpc into 8 ohms versus 2 channel output at 186 wpc into 8 ohms)



Given the disparities of output compared to number of channels drive, it makes me wonder how the Denon handles power allocation between the channels when the front L/R are demanding lots of juice and the surrounds are not... Is it going to be closer to the 113 wpc or 238...

Jason

Welcome to the Rosewood Natural HG Club Hutzal, I hope you enjoy yours as much as I do enjoy mine
Mel N.

Thanks onn, congratulate me when I actually get them!

Jason, a couple of comments on some apparently misunderstood points. The FTC power regulations that all amplifiers sold in the U.S. have to comply with are interpreted to require that the rated power be measured with at least two channels driven simultaneously at that full rated power for at least five minutes continuously. Typically the rating is at 8 ohms, and five continuous minutes of full-power operation(unrealistic for home use of course)at 4 ohms couldn't be accomplished for an "official" 4 ohm rating. A single channel rating could be stated in addition, but wouldn't be acceptable for the basic power rating. Some manufacturers choose to instead use an all-channels driven rating instead, but this doesn't appear to be of much relevance to real-world use for home audio, as has been pointed out frequently. For example, Audioholics in their lab tests use one and two channel measurements as being more realistic. Tests, such as those on the 3808 that Michael linked, show that the advertised power ratings are met in reality, as would be expected, since manufacturers would be foolish to violate what is essentially the only set of legal restrictions that exist in the entire realm of audio equipment.

Also, there's no meaningful factor of faster response or quicker attack which differentiates amplifiers. If an amplifier, regardless of whether it happens to be in a receiver or not, can amplify to at least 20KHz with flat response and low distortion(as is common these days in even modest-cost units), then by definition it has to have an adequate slew-rate and the related rise time for human ears. There's no magic in separate components which may or may not have slightly better measurements which have no audible effect.

Thanks as always for the informative response JohnK.

And yet there are many here that have said the A1400 has improved their sound quality over their avr's alone.

Come on Jason, order one up and let us know what you think.

Ha... maybe someday. For now, my ~2k cubic foot room just isn't arguing convincingly enough for the A-1400. Over time I'm sure it'll wear me down.

You and me both! But still, I want them. Just to hav'em! Isn't that a valid reason?

That's the best reason.