OK, I just looked at the trace of 3808 doing a FW update check.

The IP stack actually starts out with a TTL (time to live) of 30. So here's how you can tell if your Denon update will work or not.

If you traceroute to 202.218.213.57 (the address in the packet trace) and you are more than 30 hops away, you will not be able to perform the update.

One more thing, they use a tcp window size of 8192. That's pretty small. Granted it's an AVR but still! The couldn't devote 16K to TCP so the update can happen twice as fast?


UPdate: I just tried to perform a traceroute. Some idiot ISP decided to block ICMP messages so you won't get that far. Oh well. But it does get you close enough to see how much wiggle room you have. When I did the traceroute, I got up to 23 hops. Since my update works, the denon's server's IP can't be more the 6 hops away from the the idiot ISP blocking the ICMPs.

wow...

I didn't understand one word of that. Fortunately I don't have a 3808.

Homedad, it's about the age-old tale of the kid of has to trace his route back in the forest, but he only has 30 white stones. So, if the 38 and 08 parents are losing them in the forest too far, they will not be able to find their way back to the Upgrade Cottage when they used to live (before they moved to a USB2.0 Hotel).

Not a bad analogy for getting the message across. But to be more specific, every packet on the Internet has a Time-to-live field. Every router will reduce it by one as the packet traverses the router. This is call "decrementing the TTL." Some home routers *don't* do this so the ISP can't pick up that you have a "router" Anyway, after 30 routers, the TTL will be zero. At that point, the router drops the packet and sends "TTL Expired in Transit" message to the original sender. This is in place so packets won't live forever on the Internet (if you have a loop for example).

Puppies are soooo cute.







i.e. : huh?

I actually thought Hansang's explanation was pretty clear. (the second one.. the first one had me scratching my head a bit)

All made sense to me.

Actually, the explanations WERE pretty good.... but I still don' no nuthin'....

It's clear as pie to me.

People tell me that I have ADD, but I don't believe - Puppies? Where ?!

I feel the force of the geek side interrupting the balance of the boards.

ADD stands for Advanced Discusion Disruption?

mmmmmmm...pie.........

I knew that I shouldn't have allowed you in my office with your camera. Especially after a drug rep lunch.

If Mark had taken that picture, it would have had shadows, quite possibly colorful lighting, and a black background.

I think he took the image that you described and ran it through Simpsonizeme.com ...

Nope, just big piles of Bantha poodoo. Its strong stuff. Does funky things to the force.

Eric. I think we have an accurate description of JP: Advanced Discusion Disruption BOT.

All of Hanseng's descriptions made sense to me, but it should as I am paid to be a geek these days.

AHEM...that would be "mmmmm floor pie"

Hansang - your first thread was excellent. At least I think it was because I am not fluent in "expert network detail geek".

I AM multilingual in "pie", but that's for another day....

Anyhow, having the 3808 can be a pretty wild ride. On one side, it is a heavy duty piece of equipment of incredible power and flexibility. Balancing the other side is the complexity of lining up all the little ducks living in the box to make it work correctly.

The firmware updates, as Denon has chosen to work them, is a whole new set of interesting variables to fight with. I have followed this thread on AVS and it has proven to be an outstanding guide through the wilderness in updating firmware for the 3808.

The really good news is the first page or two summarizes and provides excellent advice on how to go about the update process.

One of the things emphasized is to assure that you use a WIRED connection to do the updates. The first couple of pages also tell you how to deal with inevitable problems that occur during/with the upgrades.

While not as technically articulate as your explanation, the average user should be able to work through update issues relatively easily.

Why Denon doesn't simply set the updates up so you can download, burn a disc and use your DVD player to update escapes me.

Anyhow, I hope the thread is useful to somebody and eliminates the need to scatter one's stones in the forest.

Duckies, stones and forrests. I like this story.

Duckies, stones and forests, oh my!

Wasn't that part of the chorus from the opening track for Negative Orange's much-maligned rock opera, Wet Fever Dream?

I don't know, but I bet JP has the sweaty sheets to prove it!