Hi Guys,

Been exceptionally long lurking (forgot my password), and as it happens the Mrs. just ordered the EP350 for my birthday! WOW is all I can say. Unfortunately the only other Axiom speaker I have at the moment is the VP100.

My question is, we have hardwood floors and I have noticed some people put their sub on a rug or towel. Is this recommended? Does the sub come with feet?

Welcome davemire and congrats on the EP350.

Yes placing a throw rug is beneficial. Hardwood floors can create many acoustical problems because they are very reflective with sound.

You can even go a step further and place the largest and thickest rug you have and place it at the center of the floor to help dampen the sound reflections between the floors and ceilings.

Placing a rug underneath your sub will also protect your sub from getting scratched and it also protects the sub from scratching your beautiful hardwood floor.

Hi Dave,

The EP350 does indeed come with feet, which work just fine. The only problem I've encountered with the Axiom feet and my floor is that they tend to leave rings... not that I care, since I'm not particularly partial to my landlord. But that might be a good reason to put a rug down. I don't think there's much acoustical reason to just put a rug under the sub. Certainly taming the room a bit with a rug can have benefits, but that's really more related to higher frequencies than subs put out.

Dave, the problems of reflectivity mentioned by the DR. cause more problems with your other speakers not the sub's lower frequencies. The subs do come with rubber feet but they might leave marks as Ken mentioned. It won't hurt if you place a small rug/carpet square under the sub.

Thanks for the quick responses guys!

Fortunately my hardwood floors aren't "beautiful" so any circles it leaves is fine with me.

So the next question, and I know this is not a simple one is, do I match the sub with m22ti's or m60's. I have always wanted the 60's, but recent reviews have praised the new version of the 22's. I have heard both, and I adore both, but I don't have a large room. So I assume it's just preference? Will the EP350 fill any gaps with the 22's?

It's pretty much preference. The EP350 should cover the lower frequencies for the M22 just fine. Me, I prefer the fatter sound of towers. However, I'm sure that could be emulated with the sub and bookshelves with time and tweaking.

What is your budget Dave? How small is your room? I loved my 60's when I had them, killer bass for music that the 22's can't produce because of the smaller cabinet.

I've noticed the rings as well, do you think those might leave permanent marks over time?

Budget is really dependent on time. I could get the 22's in the not so distant future, the 60's would probably require a year to save up. Lots of other things to pay for

Currently my living room is quite small 14 x 14 x 9 at best.

I suppose I will probably have to find someone to audition them, as it's been nearly 8 years since I last heard the m60's. They were what got me hooked on Axiom's.

Having done much M22 listening recently, I would concur that the decision from M22 to M60 is mostly a personl one. The M22s do offer slighlty more detail than the M60s(from what I can remember of the M60s) and currently the M22 with my PB13 Ultra nears the same feeling I am getting out of my M80s+PB13, just not quite as full in the upper bass, which I believe, is why the M22+sub is sometimes said by myself and some others, to feel to be missing something.

Thanks Jakewash. I have read some of the reviews you've posted before. I suppose I will just audition them again and see what I think. I was exceptionally impressed the last time I heard the 22's.

I guess I am going about this all wrong having got the subwoofer first.

Right now I have a pair of Infinity floor standing speakers. They aren't bad, good detail, but I find they require louder volumes to get that detail.

That was how I felt about the M60's vs the M80s or even the M22s, the M60s need more volume to match the detail levels and open themselves up. When I know listen to speakers, most sound muted compared to my collection.

Dave, when I auditioned at Axiom, I found the M22+sub to be remarkably similar to the M60 (ignoring the extra bottom end the sub delivers). The M22 + sub filled the 12x20x8 demo room nicely to 85db, a decent volume level. They would give you all the volume you could ever want in your room.

If I ever feel the need to audition speakers, I will do more listening at lower levels. I did all my auditioning at 75-90db so I never noticed what you are talking about.

Awesome replies guys! Such a great community.

Well the advantage of the 22's is I can get them a lot sooner. I am a sucker for going as loud as can be, but my wife and daughter tend not to take that so well.

Thanks again for the input everyone. I will post pictures when I get the EP350!

My Algonquins came in yesterday. Since they are basically the M3's I decided to test them out with the EP500's in the theater. I disconnected the M80s and put the Algonquins in their place. My general contractor was here at the time to take a listen (he is thinking of upgrading his speakers).

They sounded really nice, and my general contractor like the sound (he said they sounded much better than his system). I could tell he wasn't floored though, and said the center channel (the VP150) sounded a bit too loud. I immediately replaced the Algonquins with the M80's, and replayed the same track. He was stunned at the sound (I have to say, the difference was amazing). He spent about 15 minutes listening to different tracks, and said that the center did not sound too loud anymore. He also said it was weird how he could hear every detail of the music (which he had not heard before) and how full the sound was.

I've never heard the M22s, but I'm sure every step up in the chain adds to a more "full" sound.

Haha, good example. If I didn't know any better, I would assume you're all out to make me broke

I am really looking forward to the EP350. So many people seem to recommend SVS or HSU, "better value", has me a little concerned. Though EP350 V3 seems highly praised. This will be my first experience with an Axiom sub. Here's hoping it stands up to the quality of the rest of the speakers.

Out of curiosity, is anyone using a single 350 for a large room?

Don't worry, Dave, it does...

I've compared one 350, to twin 350's, to twin 350's plus a 600, and in all cases was very happy in my hugo mungo cavern.

Good to hear!

I am a little obsessed with bass. Not boomy or overly loud, I just enjoy the experience of things shaking. Haha.

I think if properly placed, that 350 should do well in that room.

Did your wife surprise you or did she tell you before hand that she was buying a subwoofer for you? You are very lucky, I wish there were more women like that out there:).

When we were at Mojo's comparing the v2s and the Ninja's I commented on how the v2 with the EP600 sounded somewhat like I remember the M60s sounding, so my impressions could be skewed by my M22v1s, as I swear they have more upper end/forwardness than the v2s, although Alan as stated the M22 is virtually unchanged. I can only find the XO layout to be different but looks to be the same parts. It could just be me

Well, Jay, I recently picked up a pair of M22v2s and I have to say I don't get any of the piercing that I got from yours at Mojo's. I found yours to be very precise and forward, but I could never decide if I liked the sound or not. My new v2s, however, I like very much and they have supplanted the M2s in my 'new' 5.1 system for the computer.

As for the 350, it works very well in my large room (30x13x8 opening into the rest of the house). It did take me a couple of weeks to warm up to it, however. My older, smaller, cheaper sub seemed to have more rumble, but after a direct comparison this turned out to be merely distortion. The 350 has plenty of rumble (and much cleaner rumble at that). As far as Hsu and SVS being "better value", that's mostly for Americans. Shipping can be killer for large, square, heavy boxes.

Dave, congrats on the fantastic surprise. If she did that truly out of the blue w/o even asking you, she is an amazing woman indeed.

Jason

Thanks for the reassurance, now I don't feel quite so crazy.

Mark , when are you coming back through Calgary? We should GTG again when you do.

I may swing down in Dec, hard to say, but I'll definitely let you guys know.

Yeah, she actually did it out the blue. I kind of caught on due to the specific questions she asked. I am a very lucky man. Maybe she just got sick of me talking about buying Axioms for nearly eight years now.

It's great to hear that people are having positive experiences with the 350. I think I am set on the 22's.

The only other issue is that I am not sure how much I will be able to "test" the sub at my current house. Meaning, due to the proximity of neighbors I am not sure how loud I can crank it. Would I hear if there were any issues with the sub at low volumes? I very much doubt there would be any issue, but I am a little paranoid sometimes.

The M22s & 350 should sound great together.

If there was a major flaw with the 350 then it would be apparent at low volumes. I would imagine you won't have too many angry neighbors if you cranked it up for a bit during the day on the weekend to stress test it.

I've got a 350 and M80s in an apartment (bottom floor). No problems yet. Not that we really crank it much, but when my wife is watching NCIS, it gets fairly loud...

Well good to know that any flaws would show right away.

So,... the EP350 came on my lunch break. Unfortunately the heatsink fins, about half, were all bent in. I am guessing due to the thickness of them, it was hit pretty hard. The box seemed a little water logged as well. Thankfully though, a quick call to Axiom has another EP350 on its way home. I suppose the nice thing about this is that I can try two at the same time

It's a shame, but customer support is top notch! Not even on the phone 5 minutes.

It puzzles me how often shipping companies are not careful.

Careful costs extra money.

You are not that far from Dwight so it shouldn't take that long for your replacement sub to arrive. Hopefully they take better care of it this time.

I am assuming Purolator is the courrier? It is probably best to give the courrier person the damaged sub to ship back to Axiom when your new EP350 arrives.

It is purolator. I was just joking about the dual subs (don't have the room anyway). I am sending it back when they arrive, I don't feel like messing around with those guys trying to schedule a pickup.

It's a rocky start, but still can't wait to test it out.

Just don't blame Axiom for Puroltor's issues. Hopefully it shows up tomorrow.

NO! I don't blame Axiom at all! I know it's Purolators fault. Maybe somebody got jealous it wasn't their Axiom.

I am always amazed at how many shipping companies damage goods. Do they have to pay for the damages? It would cost a company like Axiom a lot of money to replace something, not just the part that was damaged but the extra time that staff have to waste sorting it out.

Kepp us posted on your setup, I have been following along in the wings and would be interested to hear what you think of it.

I will update with thoughts and pictures for sure!

I would hope that Axiom has a quick and painless way of recovering their losses due to careless shippers. I am about three hours or less from the Axiom factory and that's the damage I receive. What if I lived in Europe?

Axiom would be compensated in situations like this, they would have some type of agreement for damage claims.

I do not know if Axiom would be compensated, I hope so , but the fine print on all courier companies states they are not responsible for damages, only lost items, it is up to the shipper to ensure adequate(what ever that is) packaging and if the packaging is deemed to be not enough to with stand the rigors of shipping then the courier company is off the hook.

Hmm... I wonder what sort of adequate packaging you need to keep those aluminum fins from bending?

The way the boxes are treated most likely a wooden box with the speakers anchored to the bottom with bolts into the threaded inserts and the container completed filled with spray foam around the speaker might work

Also, put a hive of bees in it and a sticker on the outside warning to not jar the package.

Hmmmm... "Jar the Package" seems like a straight line for something, but I don't know what..... Peter?

Well I tried the EP350 last night, rather tried to. (This is the damaged one mind you) It didn't work. More specifically, the amp would turn on (Green LED) from signal, but there would be no output. Called Axiom they said to check the leads. Checked them, no problems, everything was tight. So I am not sure, but I guess based on the damage on the exterior, something happened on the inside.

Just an interesting tid-bit of information.

Still anxiously awaiting the replacement.

Replacement EP350 came in on lunch. Took it out of the packaging and it looks good so far. Didn't have a chance to plug it in and test it out, will test it after work.

Well, its after work now.

??

Nice! That was quick. Let us know once you have it all hooked up.

Sorry I didn't get back sooner guys. It's not good news.

The replacement sub isn't working either. Turns out the one that was damaged was outputting sound, but I didn't realize it until I had tested the replacement. The only output I get on either is when the gain is maxed out on the subwoofer, as well as the amplifier. I tried a whole heap of things to figure it out. I tried three different cables, I factory reset my amp to be sure no setting was in the way, tried three different audio sources, and no change. As a reference I plugged in my old Kenwood 50Watt RMS subwoofer and it was at least five times as loud as the EP350 at max. Now I realize that isn't the way it should work and that the EP350 would shake my neighbors foundations. Though at this point, I am not sure if I just want to return them all together and forget it. I called Axiom last night, but I haven't got a response.

I have been looking forward to a new Axiom product for years, so I hope this gets sorted out.

I have a question for you, I'm no expert like the others on this board but which input are you using on the EP350?
Mel N.
Sorry for the dumb question

Not a dumb question at all. I am using the low level (RCA line in) input on the subwoofer.

Maybe I am retarded and I am missing something, but I have no idea.

That's really strange.

Did you try hooking up a CD or DVD player directly to the RCA input on the sub?

Good idea. Amps can have sooo many settings effecting the subs output. Some more obvious than others. This would narrow it down to or from the sub for sure.

I hooked my 360 as well as my MP3 directly to both as a test. There was a little more volume, but not much.

Dave - don't give up yet. The odds of you getting two non-functional 350s in a row are astronomical, so I'm hoping that someone here or at Axiom can take you through some other troubleshooting that might explain what's happening.

One the one hand, you could be the "unluckiest" man alive... it seems more likely though that it's something in your setup, but for the life of me I can't figure out what it is that would cause a direct MP3 player connection to the amps on the 350s to produce such noticeably different sound on one sub versus the other. [just to check, is that the case? Your last post said that there was a little more volume with a direct connection, but did you do the same connected to your Kenwood sub to compare output levels?]

Jason

No, you're right, I didn't connect the MP3 player directly to the Kenwood sub. I only tried it via the home theater receiver. There was definitely more output via the direct connection of the MP3 player, but at max EP350 volume it was barely putting out anything. I tried to explain to my wife that our ears should be bleeding at that level.

Believe me, I am as surprised as anyone else here that I am having this much of an issue. It's also crossed my mind that I am the unluckiest man alive. Haha.

Hopefully I will hear back from Axiom soon. If not, I will call at lunch.

Try adjusting the phase switch (0 or 180) and see if it provides more output.

I am hoping you get this worked out, good luck!

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, I already gave that a shot without any difference.

I am going to follow up with Axiom in a moment.

Davemire, let us know what Axiom has to say.

Guess they're still hard at work. They're going to call me back again. They wanted me to test pulling the RCA cable at the amp end and touching my finger against the pin; assuming that grounds it.

I did the test, and it definitely responds, but at maximum volume I would expect a pretty substantial response. Maybe not.

Back to eagerly awaiting.

I will guess the next check will be for any fuses and loose connections inside the box, on the amp and the driver.

Would I be getting output though if a fuse was gone, or wire was loose? I will have to check the wires when I get home.

Out of curiosity, where are the fuse(s) located on the EP350? How many are there?

http://www.axiomaudio.com/troubleshooting_ep350.html#

Haha, well then. Thanks

Whats the word?

B-b-b-bird bird bird. B-bird is the word.

Word up

Talked to Axiom again, they're still waiting on a response from someone else. I am guessing it's someone on the technical side. Not sure. They're supposed to call back this morning.

I checked the fuse last night though, and it's fine.

Back to waiting.

Good your keeping a smile on your face through this Dave, I'm sure it's not easy.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little let down and frustrated, but I still have some faith that Axiom will make it better.

*crosses fingers*

Yes, it is always very frustrating. I had to deal with Axiom many times on different topics (sometimes not even close to be their issue), but they have NEVER let me down no matter how long it took to get a final resolution. So hang in there!

Hold in there davemire. There is no question you will get taken care of. Maybe a 3rd EP350 will be the charm:).

Well I talked to Axiom again. They're going to test out the damaged sub, as it was doing the same thing, and they want me to test something else out tonight. Not sure what, I have to call them. So I will update later. Guess won't be getting this resolved before the weekend. Sigh.

Hi Davemire,

Gee, I'm really appalled by Purolator's lousy handling. That's the first case I've seen where the heat sinks were damaged. Sorry to hear of the damage.

Yes, Axiom files a claim with the courier if damage occurs.

Oddly, the international sales never seem to get damaged, perhaps because it's always by air. Too bad Ian doesn't still have his float plane. He could have stuffed the 350 into the back seat and landed on a nearby lake. . .

Regards,
Alan

Haha, well we're pretty close. I think I am just under two hours from the factory (Lindsay). Hopefully it will be sorted out when I get home. I would love to have this fixed by the weekend for my birthday.

Man, I remember back about eight years ago selling Axioms at our local music shop. How times have changed.

Two Hours!!!
If a replacement part or sub is again in order, I would definitely be driving to pick it up myself. Both to avoid the hated courier companies and to play the "Since I'm here, can I have a tour?" card.

Haha, it may come down to it.

Unfortunately I work tomorrow.

I would be picking up equipment directly from Axiom if I lived that close.

... and while you're there you could a/b the ep600 and 800 and give us a review.

Good thinking Fred!!

Haha, you guys.

Well news is as follows. The techs are going to rip apart the first sub I sent back this morning. I will get word after that. I think Axiom is just as perplexed as me. I don't think either party can think of anything else to test.

x3 different sub RCA cables
x3 audio sources (Xbox 360 RCA, MP3 player, home theater sub out)
different power cord
different power outlet
resetting home theater receiver to factory defaults
check fuse
switch power from 220V back to 115V (while sub is off and unplugged)
switch phase
switch 'auto on'
try both line in's
try a different subwoofer (old one worked fine)
check terminals

I am sure I tried other stuff, back to waiting.

Perhaps that giant nuclear accelerator test in Europe did indeed create a miniature black hole after all. They just didn't realize it because it appeared across the world in your living room.

It's currently subatomic in size, just big enough to pull in the all your LFE but it's growing and soon the only safe place to go will be in Mark's square listening room where an LFE eating black hole would be starved from existence.......

Dibs on the couch by the emergency ration closet!

LOL....

Who is responsible for cleaning the coffee off my screen?

Haha, you know I am almost ready to believe that!

If there is a problem with the EP350 I am sure Axiom's tech guru's will find the problem.

Keep hangin' in there :).

Cheers

Well I talked to Axiom, they found the problem, and it is on their end. So I can't get a new sub until Monday. I am a little fed up with all this and have my concerns. I think I might just return the sub and call it done.

What was the problem?

The magnet wasn't/isn't getting enough power from the amplifier in some of the units.

I am sure they will run some tests on the next EP350 before they ship it so everything is perfect for you :).

I know the one thing that attracted me to Axiom is I always know in the back of my mind that with any current or future problems I will be taken care of.

Good luck,

You're right, they said they'd test the next one prior to shipment, but I have just had to do a lot of chasing around on the phone, I was told I would have a replacement by today, now it's Monday. I am a little frustrated.

I do not blame you for being frustrated. It is extremely bad luck to experience shipping damage along with recieving a fualty sub.

Are you getting your EP350 today?

Sorry for the delayed response. I decided to return the malfunctioning unit and not opt for another replacement. I was getting a bit of a run-around, and have as such decided to wait.

Thanks for all the help guys!

That is to bad your having this experience with Axiom, it is not the norm.

What made you feel that you were getting the run-around?

Probably the fact that he received two subs in a row that didn't work in his place. I imagine this was a tough one for Axiom to troubleshoot as well as it's so bizarre. I can understand the frustration. Bummer Dave!

It really is a bummer, I must say.

I realize that faulty hardware happens, but there were a few other frustrating circumstances. I don't want to name names, and get into specifics, but a lot was said that didn't happen. Lots of apparent call backs and voicemail messages that were never made. So I spent the better part of the week chasing one particular rep down, as I wouldn't get any responses.

I am over it now, but feel a little empty for being so close to experiencing the Axiom sub line, and yet so far.

Again, appreciate all the friendly responses from the community here!

Take care.

To bad Amie is not around to get out the whip. Sorry, it sounds like you had some bad communication experience with certain "oncall" folk....

Yeah, that really sucks. It's never fun when the customer service doesn't do its part.

Isn't James supposed to be the whip cracker now? James? Got your whip handy?