Ian C.
How do the M80Ti compare to the Swan Diva 6.1's? Here:
http://www.av123.com/divaproducts.html I figure you would know what the competitions is putting out.... I sure you have come across them at CEDIA ??? Show or some show. The 6.1's look real nice but I want to hear that the Axiom M80's by design (number of cones / surface area / etc / etc) out perform the 6.1's........Looking for your reply! THANKS in advance.....TIM

Actually I have never heard of these speakers before. From the website I see where they are made exclusively for AV123.com, which appears to be an online retailer. Sorry I can help you out with this one.

Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

"One of audio's best-kept secrets is speaker mega-maker, HiVi Research. Sprawled across three cities in China....."

$1300 dollar for chinese speakers? Uh-NO. They are just cheap wharfedales gussied up with "fine" veneers. U go to that U auction site, and save yourself hundreds.

Or better YET, buy some real speakers--- Axioms, and KNOW that you are buying QUALITY Canadian speakers from a company who cares about it's customers (I DO own Axioms), instead of some cheap Chinese crap. Ian, you are a patient person....:)

THANKS!!!!!!!!!! I would NOT have known!! I'm going to take Axiom up on the 30 day deal. And take them for a spin! I have liked everything that I've read here......Again THANKS for the help......Tim

Just read the Axiom reviews at soundstage, masters, goodsound, etc. With the 30 day return policy, what is there to lose? Oh-Yes- I'm sure you WON'T be returning them.

Mr. Upstairs:
Although I am a proud owner of Axiom speaker, but I am quite repulsive by your comments. Have you listen and see the Diva speaker in person?
Check out the www.cheaphometheater.com and their speaker shoot out.

I'm sorry your "quite repulsive" by the comments. I don't need to see or hear the Diva's. All I have to do is read the comments from Ian Masters, Audioreview(CONSUMERS reviewing-swan products nowhere to be seen), SOundstage's M22 review, and my reflect on my own experience with the M22. I did view the review you linked, I STILL believe it is silly to spend $1300 on chinese speakers (identical drivers to wharfedales- compare them if you must..) over $350 on a pair of speakers that are put out by a company that takes it products AND it's customer service seriously. I'll give Ian my business over some big Chinese speaker conglomerate any day-Axiom earns it with clearly superior products. I'm sure that is the reason that you purchased axioms over swan(wharfedale) or some other brand of speakers.

I know you didn't hear any Diva speaker that's why you couldn't speak objectively. I heard their 6.1 at New York Audio show last sprint. With room full most expensive speakers, like Wilson, JML Utopia, Lynn, running on exotic amp. Only with a outlaw 1050 receiver, 6.1 sound very good compare to them.
Look www.avsforum.com and you will find hundreds posts from Diva owner.
Please don't judge any product without any object knowledge, except maybe BOSE.

I find it hard to believe that the Chinese swans compare to the JML Utopias - however, you say you were there, I cannot say that. I am more than happy to judge a product without object knowledge: if you look at wharfedales and swan, they use the same drivers- and they are made at the same factory in China. I personally try to buy as little as possible from repressive communist China (especially items over $500!!), so I don't need to listen to them- in that instance, that is where my "object knowledge" ends. For the price/performance ratio, Axioms are clearly the better choice. For many people, such as myself, it is simply unfathomable to purchase Chinese speakers for $1300 when there are better choices out there like Axiom and other Canadian, German, American, French, Italian, etc. brands to support.

Helloooo, we are talking speaker here not social ideology. And what's communist to do with speaker. Unfortunately chinese stuff are everywhere. 20 years ago people think everything made in Japan is garbage.
When you look at M80 review in audioreview.com,one person trashed it just because it's big and with titanium tweeter without listening and some people in audioasylum.com think Canadian speakers are garbage only European speakers are worth conside. How is that make you feel?
Most people are not able to hear axiom before the purchaes and rely on forum like this to get honest and objective opinion. Comments like yours are not helping axiom that why I admire Ian for his honesty and integrity with his answer.

"And what's communist to do with speaker"
It's repressive, and I would rather not support any of it with my hard earned money.

As for the Axiom reviews on Audioreview, some are legit, some are not. If you can't figure out which one's are and which one's aren't- welll?? As for the people that think Canadian speakers are garbage (yea, right-I haven't seen alot of posts like that at AA) WHO CARES?! They can feel their why about the Canadian speakers, as I can feel my why about Chinese speakers. WHen I view this board to see what is going on with a company I WHOLEHEARTEDLY support ( and yes, I have the products to prove it), I help people out with my experiences. I was VERY leary about buying my M22's, simply because I couldn't hear them. However, I took the leap, and CAN'T believe the quality of sound I purchased for comparartively little money. Comments like yours don't help Axiom, since you can't see a chinese speaker for a chinese speaker- when that company makes 50,000,000,000 or whatever drivers everyday, and Wharfedales and OTHER "budget" speakers are made in China, and you don't see a connection between seemingly indentical drivers, then you are only kidding yourself, and not helping a GREAT company (Axiom) sell what are arguably the best price/performance ratio speakers on the market. I admire Ian not only for his candor, but also for taking the road less traveled in the audio business by selling SUPERB products for REAL WORLD prices- cutting costs AND keeping the MADE IN CANADA label gets my vote and my money any day. EOT

OK, I got it. The hudreds diva reviews are lies. Thank for your insightful advise. Wonder why people still buy them and why so many viewers to this thread if the choice is so clear.
I have MT60, vp150 and qs-8 and probably spent more money than you and more qualify to say I support axiom more than you do. EOT

I check the Wharfedale pacific speaker line and they do look similiar with diva. But they won 5 star rating from 2 highly regarded British audio magazine, What hi-fi and hi-fi choice. Could be the reviewer are deaf???

EOT= End of Topic (I think Tim's going to get Axioms anyway?)

HOWEVER :) , I am glad that you acknowledge that the Chinese speakers are all very similar. As for the Brit mags, GREAT! But, they haven't reviewed Axioms or ? I will grant you they do have decent reviews in those mags- and they also acknowledge the fact that they are chinese speakers. Ask yourself this- with similar Wdales on ubid selling for HUGE percentages off, (list price $1100, sells for $100 each?!! _C'mon) which speaker is the better deal when it comes right down to it. If you can sell a speaker for $100 when the list is $1100, and you STILL make profit, what does that tell you of the quality of the item?

We just have to agree to disagree about the MADE IN CHINA speakers, I guess. If you want the Wdales or Swans, more power to you...that's what freedom of choice is all about! EOT again, at least for me.

Tim is here WHEW!!! I got something started or what....HEHEHE! I'm going to A/B the Axiom M60's/VP150/M22's against the Diva 4.1's/C3/2.1's and I'll give my 2 cents after that. I THANK you for the replies! I don't what to spend my money on a "sound" that could be had at the local Walmart, Sears, gas station......(White Van with speakers to sell). I want quality because they might be the last time I buy speakers unless they break or something.... I wish the cabinet VP150 came in the redish color as a standard because I want to take advantage of the "blemished" models to save that hard earned cash of mine! QUESTION: Does the 30 day return also work with the blemished ones????????????? Thanks Again TIM

Gee Tim- Look at all the aruguing that could have been avoided if you would have said that in the first place!!! LOL J/K

That is the best solution to figure out what you like the best. I also inquired about the "Blem" axioms, and seem to recall the answer being YES. However, wait for Ian's or axiom's post just to be sure (hint- you may want to post another thread- this one might not get that question answered since it's SOOOO LOOONG). Good luck anyways, and I wouldn't be too surprised if you wound up keeping the axioms.

Wow. Glad to see the post winding down! You were taxing the bandwidth! LOL.

Yes, Factory Outlet ('blems') are available, live on the site! Great deals while they last! Feel free to send me any questions on them -- in a new post :)

Amie

*BUMP*


To the person who posted their thoughts on Swan vs. Axiom ACTUAL head to head test, PLEASE elaborate here or in another post.... I'm sure your thoughts are entertaining as well as beneficial!

Compared the: Swan Diva 4.1's, C3, 2.1's vs.
Axiom M60Ti's, VP150, M22Ti's

OK, I will start with the positives for the Diva's: These are the BEST lokking speakers I have ever seen in person period. And I have seen alot of the Reference level speakers on the market. Except for the plastic molding holding the tweeter on top of the speaker. It really looks out of place sitting on top of that black piano surface top piece. The connector for your wiring on the back are very heavy duty and work like silk. The outside is simple awsome, period....
But at some point you have to turn them on. It is this simple: voices are very "real" like their in the same room with you. I would say maybe 10%-15% clearer that the Axoims. But EVERYTHING else is hard to hear any seperation. The strings,drums,bass all just mush together. I guess this is what you would call a very,very,very laid back sound. The Axioms sounds like everything (voice,strings,drums,bass,tamborines) has it on seperate channel. All with the same level of output. The Axiom sound is maybe just a little forward but has had NO fatiguing effect on the ears. And probably has made me not have to concentrate as hard to hear the details in what I'm listening too.

Also the Diva's have such a high gloss shine to them the stand out in the room instead of blending in like the Axiom finish does.

When A/B testing the Diva's had between 90-105 hours on the and the Axioms had 8-9 hours break-in time.

And it took about 30 sec of music to hear the difference. Actually about 5 sec. I heard a difference immediately. I listened to soft & hard rock, jazz, music from the 60/70/80/90/00's. And the result was the same everytime. I Even had two friend come over and they were on different days. And had them blindfolded and they picked the Axioms EVERY single time for what sounded the best.

And then HT surround sound test I used Titan AE, Matrix, Pearl Harbor, Gladiator, Swordfish and the DETAIL of what you hear is SIMPLE clear, louder and I swear that I could even hear things in some of the scenes with the Axioms that were just not their with the Diva's.

I'm sorry that I didn't have a SPL to measure the two at that time but I would say my hears didn't hear a difference at my receivers ref. level output.

I still really pissed about the $348 in shipping. To the point that I tried to talk myself into keeping the Diva's to save that $ but I couldn't keep the second place finisher and send the Axioms back...... Hell I could have bought a sub with that money! Hey maybe Axiom will feel sorry for me and send me a sub to fix my broken wallet......

THANKS for posting.... The Axioms are UNBEATABLE for the money, and I was curious as to the head to head comparison. Just for giggles you should have compared the Axioms to the Divas after an equal amount of Break in time! THe end result would have been even more lopsided, I'm sure, as the Axioms get WAY BETTER after about 100 hrs.

Hey, thanks again for your impromptu review!

"
$1300 dollar for chinese speakers? Uh-NO. They are just cheap wharfedales gussied up with "fine" veneers. U go to that U auction site, and save
yourself hundreds.

Or better YET, buy some real speakers--- Axioms, and KNOW that you are buying QUALITY Canadian speakers from a company who cares about it's
customers (I DO own Axioms), instead of some cheap Chinese crap. Ian, you are a patient person....:)"

Wow. This post really reeks of ignorance. The poster may know Axioms but he definitly knows diddly about the Divas. I just replaced some B&Ws with the 6.1s and here's what I found:
Construction quality - Similar, though the Divas win on this one (Divas-9, B&W-8)
Finish - The 6.1s are beautiful. Divas-10, B&W-7
Sound - Major step up (B&Ws were older models - Matrix 2) Divas-9 B&W-7
Customer Service - I give the Divas a 10. www.AV123.com will lean over backwards for you. You get a 30 day no questions money back guarantee, 90 day warranty (fill out the warranty card and it's 3 years).

Warning - A complete 5.1 setup can get expensive to ship. AV123 overpacks their speakers like crazy; outside box, styrofoam, inside box, styofoam, custom fit soft cloth bag. It's way beyond anything I've ever seen in electronics (short of a wooden crate).

You do not know what you are talking about. First the new Warfdales are getting good reviews, second the Warfdales are similar looking but that is it. The Diva Tweeter is German and the Bass drivers are metal. The Diva Mid-range is a kevlar impregnated paper. The Warfdales have Woven Kevlar mid/bass. Even just Looking at pictures I don't know how they could be mistaken to be the same. It would be far easier to mistake the Warfdales for B&W's which they both look like.

I've seen the quality of construction in the Diva's which is unseen in their price bracket and the sound is wonderfull. Of course everyone has their tastes and that is why there is not just one speaker company.

Before you trash a company for having stuff manufactured in China you should know what they are made of etc. There are a number of American and Canadian companies doing manufacturing and assembly in China. It is much cheaper and hence you do get much more bang for the buck.

Hey, watch this. I can do it too!

"Diva speakers are horrible. How do I know? I'm not really sure. I've never heard them, but I really like Axiom and Diva is made in China so they sound horrible. Plus, I work for Axiom, and just know that my speakers are better."

Try starting a real thread on a real forum ladies. You all really sound like rocket scientists---really. I'm so impressed by your technical knowledge and objective comments:

Or better YET, buy some real speakers--- Axioms, and KNOW that you are buying QUALITY Canadian speakers from a company who cares about it's customers (I DO own Axioms), instead of some cheap Chinese crap. Ian, you are a patient person....:)


I don't need to see or hear the Diva's. All I have to do is read the comments from Ian Masters, Audioreview(CONSUMERS reviewing-swan products nowhere to be seen), SOundstage's M22 review, and my reflect on my own experience with the M22.

identical drivers to wharfedales- compare them if you must

I am more than happy to judge a product without object knowledge

For the price/performance ratio, Axioms are clearly the better choice

It's repressive, and I would rather not support any of it with my hard earned money

Looks like Axiom drudged the bottom barrel to find a few real gems to support their speakers. I mean seriously, come on, you can't tell me that you actually have money to spend on speakers? With absolutely no IQ, how do you make it? You people have ME thinking that the communist gov't may be the way to go.

I must agree.....let us not start bashing products because of country of origin, style or design, or even price for that matter.

Another good point raised is the use of magazine reviews as your only reason for comments....or worse yet, as the sole reason for purchasing a product. If you can, you really should listen to a product. This might prove difficult, but it is the best method. Some mag's never say anything bad about a product(Stereophile) and some are the opposite, honest but they alienate the vendor/distributor and they never see another product to review(UHF)

Sorry to ramble....

BBIBH

I did compare them (in my house) and have posted my thoughts to this subject. I'm the one out $348 shipping to send back the inferior product (Diva's). I also I'm the one that started the whole thread to begin with. Try to find other peoples thoughts about the two products. I do believe the ONLY way to know for sure is to "in home test" side by side the fronts, centers, rears. What I'm trying to tell people in the "marketing is a little miss leading". Companies make it sound like if you don't like it just send it back and we'll refund your money! They should state minus shipping cost both ways and your looking at about 15%-20% of your total cash output! That is the SAME as charging a RESTOCKING fee!

I will say AGAIN head to head the Axioms out performed the Divas period...........................................................................

This is the dumbest thread I have ever read!!!!

Every time I've seen the Diva's mentioned on the forums, everyone is fully aware of the fact that the shipping cost is your only risk.

What the hell do you want them to do? How is a company supposed to cover return shipping costs on a product weighing hundreds of pounds?

So let me get this straight, when you returned your Diva's, you expected them to (1) lose money on the speakers by turning around and selling them as B-Stock and (2) lose money on the shipping back to their warehouse?

Since it appears you have absolutely no business background AT ALL, let me explain something to you: this is a good way to LOSE money. Of course, Axiom will pay the return shipping, won't they? No? Bastards!!

You weighed the risks purchasing the Diva's just like everyone else on this and other forums did. You don't see them bitching about it. Both companies offer excellent speakers for the money. If you had to send back the Axioms, would you rip them apart too?

Actually I have a BS in Business Adminstration. And had 12 years in sales of an array of different products. Now I manage a oncology dept. of a hospital. And to inlighten you most industries that I have worked with incurr all different types of costs. From paying for return shipping to picking up product direct. Going on site and trouble shooting problems, buying off clients with tickets, dinners, golf outing, etc..... So ( I ) failed to ask the direct question "what will MY costs be"? I have learned so much from your vast wisdom...Thank YOU!

You seem to expect a lot from ANY company that is marketing a low margin product. As the other post states, would Ian be wrong in expecting you to pay for shipping if you did not care for his product and wanted to return them? He would not be in business long if everything was on his tab. You seem to have great qualifications and little practical, real world business sense.

...and it is "enlighten" not as you have entered.

BBIBH

The mark up is built into the sale price. PERIOD! Their has to be a margin built in. Or he would be living out of his car. If their wasn't a margin to "protect" against the "what if's". You seem to be the one needing to understand how business is done in the real world....

"Looks like Axiom drudged the bottom barrel to find a few real gems to support their speakers. I mean seriously, come on, you can't tell me that you actually have money to spend on speakers? With absolutely no IQ, how do you make it? You people have ME thinking that the communist gov't may be the way to go."

/me lights the flamethrower

HAHAHA- Gee How Funny. You're the one who needs to post on a real message board. You are just as spineless as the legions of lemmings that rush to the stores to buy " latest and greatest" products to satisfy YOUR lack of IQ, not to mention other shortcomings that push losers like you to buy products based on status and looks alone. Too bad you resorted to personal attacks rather than other means of discussion. See, that was your downfall because you showed just how far down the bottom of the barrel YOU were able to slime your way up. Denigrating others for a differing opinion (NOT a stance on political or moral issue)- what a sucker you are.

You like China, communism, and Diva speakers so much...? Do many of us a favor and go live there so other people can freely give opinions without pinkos like you resorting to lame. feeble attempts at pathetic personal attacks on "anonymous" message board users. Don't like the opinions on the Diva or whatever that were made? Who Gives a $%%^ what you say or think?!.... Your opinion is as meaningless and worthless to me as your sorry comments in your flame. If you don't like to get flamed, don't flame others for no reason.

You can now go back to spamming other "home theater" message boards with bogus reviews for Diva speakers, and don't forget to spam Audioreview if and when they put up the section for the much vaunted "swan divas".

SAD

LOLOL

/me puts the flamethrower back

Hardly. I am not sure about what started this about business, but you seemed to have a problem with a purchase you made. You did not get a chance to preview your purchases. The gear you have chosen indicates that you are not quite hifi. Your fued with the other 'poster' seems to have spilled into personal territory. Did you complain to the other company? Did you check out as you so eloquently put it "what ifs" ( -2 marks poor and incomplete grammar) of the other comapny? You mention built in cost to protect, and mention onsite service, tickets and such??????

You learned a lesson, and found a better product. That is the best part of your story. Unfortunately it cost you. That is a lesson I would say you will take with you in your future dealings with any company you buy mail order from.

Regards

BBIBH

comapny? I think you meant company.

This thread needs to be closed. It has nothing to do with Axiom loudspeakers and home theater. If there is a moderator on this board, please lock this thread, as it is a waste of time to read and a waste of space on this bulletin board.

Thank you kindly!

Glad you like your speakers, one observation is the very large sensitivity difference between the two. Without very careful level matching the more sensitive speaker will sound better 99 percent of the time. Even side by side you really can not compare a speaker due to placement and room differences. This is why Harman has a 500000 dollar speaker switcher to physically swap speakers fast for their testing. You probably know this but FYI anyone who doesn't