My system is being loaded right now. They said they had to get it out right away before I change my mind (AGAIN!) (Was giving that special on those Rockets some consideration :D)

The wait is almost over!

Beep....beep.....beep.........(24 countdown).....

So thats why AV123 shut down their forum ...jk

What did you change on your order Bob? Glad your wait is finally coming to an end soon.... .

Cheers!

Usually I just get banned from a site.

I upgraded the EP350 to an EP500 and I had a personal issue of getting payment for the difference there. (Can't believe it took a eek to get there.) Hope I made the right choice on everything.

So you have a EP500 now to go along with some M80's, Vp150 and QS8's. Wow! Congratulations Bob!

That is a very nice setup .

Cheers!

Hey Bob, I have had that combo for almost 5 years now. You're gonna love it!

pn

Congrats on the news.

So I saw. Great room btw!!!

Great news Bob!

That's awesome! You are going to be soooo blown away!
And so are your neighbours and your neighbour's neighbours!!!!

I LOVE my EP500. It makes my pictures rattle on the other side of the room! It's going to be wicked with the M80's.

Good news Bob, congrats.

Oh I think you guys will really like this one. Got an email from Noreen this morning. It includes this:

2) Post tales of the agony of waiting on our Message Boards at http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards. You'll find lots of sympathetic listeners there!

Would you guys like to hear about ANYMORE agonizing from ME??????

we have a forum?

What's a forum?

There used to be one in Montreal

So I have heard.

I think it is a drum set from Pearl.

Yes!

Once you get your system set up in your home I think we might have to set up an entire thread dedicated for you.

My fear is that we have built up an unsustainable expectation and the WOW just won't be there for you Bob.

I can't believe he bought all the hype

SSSSSHHHHHHH!!!!, not so loud.

Yeah no kidding Rick, Bose would be much better.

What a sucker.

Lock, stock and barrel.

and us sorry folks are going to have to help him calibrate everything correctly.

Ha!

If you haven't felt it yet you should be feeling it soon enough.

Do you remember in the movie Frankenstein when Dr. Frankenstein realized he had created a monster???????????????

By the way, congrats on taking the plunge Bob. Lots of fun times on the way!

Jason

Heard a noise at the front door a little while ago. No speakers yet though!

like a kid in a candy store.

If I were working for Fed Ex, I would keep driving around the block for a couple of hours, then go to Bob's house, ask him how to get to back to the freeway because you had a call from head office that you'd forgotten some large, heavy boxes to be delivered. Uuuuhhhh....put...the...bat...down...Bob....

Speaking of FedEx, I got several boxes with the words "Axiom" stamped over them today, totally unexpected ... anybody have an idea what that may be about?

Guess your wife has a big Cultured Marble project for you that she forgot to tell you about.

http://www.webbsupplyinc.com/html/axiom.html

Haha! that's hilarious, Rick! uh....wait, they don't have my name on them do they?

So, have the speakers arrived, or did I miss a thread somewhere?

No word yet just that Bob got THE e-mail from Noreen.

I understood, Bob received his speakers, and was setting up this weekend(past). I should be receiving mine within the next 10 days approx.

Hey Adrian, Been away since Friday afternoon on a teenage boy's retreat weekend. Hopefully that experience will help me to better handle the attitudes of some of the posters here. Just got back late last night. Hope to get the rest of the speakers hooked up today.

I'm sorry to say that I haven't been too impressed with the M80's so far. They seem very bright with most music so far. I have a cd of a local jazz trio that sounds pretty good. I played the Allman Bros at the Fillmore East. The drums sound very thin. Bass is pretty solid. Very good detail but it doesn't sound well balanced.
Regular TV is really bothering me. The voices sound extremely thin and irritating at regular TV listening volume. Sounds fuller when background music kicks in. I'm really worried that the center channel will sound even thinner than the M80's. I learned a very important lesson. You MUST listen to speakers before buying them. I don't understand why I'm hearing things so differently then the guys on the forum. Maybe they are "fan boys". I certainly hope that you have better luck than me.

btw They look very good in the room. I thought my wife would shriek at their size but she also likes the look. I'll try to take some pics today. BoB

PS So far the only Wow factor is Wow, I wonder how much return shipping is for a whole system.

That's too bad, Bob. You might try moving them around a bit as placement makes a big difference on bass reinforcement. If you find they are not for you, send them back with no regrets. After all, the goal here is to find you a system that will enjoy for years.

Geez, Bob, I normally would go out of my way to help out a newer forum member with a problem. I can't imagine why I feel no inclination to do so here?
~~~~
Cause I'm just a teenage dirtbag Fanboy baby
Yeah I'm just a teenage dirtbag Fanboy baby
Listen to Iron Maiden baby with me
Ooohoooooo

*gets popcorn, sits in easy chair*

This will be interesting!

I'll join ya Doc

Got any beer to go with the popcorn, or do we have to wait for Tom to show up?

Tom ALWAYS brings the beer. Come on Mark you should know that

BoB/335,

What do you have hooked up so far? If you are just running the M80's without the EP500 subwoofer make sure they are set to LARGE in your Denon receiver and not small.

Bob, it's entirely possible that you are looking for a different type of sound than Axiom(P'digm, MA, B&W ect). You might be looking for a more 'laid back' or 'warmer' sound. I talked to a Paradigm dealer a while back, and he told me that alot of the music I like might be 'lacking' due to the older recordings(the digital age should have happened sooner!). Until I am set up with my speakers, I can't say what they'll sound like, only that they're said to be similar to the P'digms in sound, so that's what I based my decision on when purchasing.
Some of the material I was using to audition other speakers on, seemed to prove the "bad recording" theory. I played several cds on my auditioning and ended up leaving one cd at home simply because all the speakers I was playing it through convinced me it was poorly recorded. It's sad that there are so many good bands from the past with poorly recorded material and vice versa with many of todays bands.
I have to say that the guys here on the forums have been very open to discussion about other brands/recommendations to me with no hint, at least to me, of fanboyism. I've read alot of posts on other forums(didn't join) and there is alot of false info and riff raff on many of those forums. I've always felt the info I get from this forum, is generally from a more informed(mature?) group of people than what I see on some of those forums.
It's no secret that some feathers got ruffled here, a few weeks ago, unfortunately on the 'net, when info or opinions are put down in text, they can sometimes be misinterpretted by the reader...one thing leads to another, before you know it, everyone goes on the defence/offence. I hope this hasn't created a bias in what you are hearing when listening to your speakers. I've always felt the guys here are very informative and helpfull when I ask questions, some reg non Axiom products as well.
In the end, if you're not satisfied, and have tried various placements of your speakers ect. then Axiom allows you that 30 day trial so really it'll work out either way.

Bob, after making such a big investment, playing brinksmanship with free advice is, well, short-sighted. Up to this point, you have gained nothing from this group compared to what you can gain now. There is a ton of experience with speakers, rooms, and M80's in particular that you could (in theory) tap at this point. Even assuming every M80 owner on this thread is a hired sales rep, the pro reviews tell you this speaker is pretty damn strong, so perhaps the problem is not the speaker, or is correctable. Maybe you just don't like them, maybe you are a plant for Polk Audio and never even ordered Axioms, who cares. The point is, if you remind everyone what you set up is, give some room sizes, figure out some peaks, etc., people would help you determine if the M80 just aren’t for you or if you just need to tweak the set up. Not sure what will happen if you just poke at people.

I guess you could call Axiom, they may help you. Or just box them up and turn in your forum password and mark the shipping cost as a learning experience. Good luck.

Oh, and Bob check out the following from a new owner; either he licked the speaker and is hooked on fanboy dust already, or your experience so far is an outlier. Give it a chance man:

Bob, I hope you can ignore those (a minority) who are acting like this is their sandbox and you pooed in it.
You talked about the TV voices sounding thin and irritating; and wonder "if the center channel will sound even thinner than the M80s".

1.What do you have hooked up as a center?
2.What kind of calibration have you done?
3.You might tell your receiver that you don't have a center speaker to see how a "phamtom center" will sound. That will give you a better idea how the M80s sound.

I know there are more knowledgeable who will chime in to help.

Bill

I hope that for BoB, the Axioms don't turn out to be a Titanic FAIL...

It's not that anyone thinks Bob "pooped" in anyone's sandbox. It is a matter of you get what you give on this forum. I for one was called a "vinyl nutcase" (by dear Bob)for enjoying it. I had never before had any dialog directly with him and this is how he prefers to introduce himself to me.

Being just a little respectful when one comes to a forum goes a long way. Being a smartass and obnoxious doesn't bode well for anyone, including dear Bob.

I'm certain there are things Bob could do in his set up that would help if he is willing to listen to all of us "fanboys".

Do the speakers need a break-in period???

Rick, your emoticons been eating all day so far and not gaining any weight. What's his secret?

Good metabolism.

No, Norb, no such thing as speaker breakin, however, your brain will take some time to adjust.

Bob. I am sorry you are not liking the sound so far. I havn't ever felt that the M80s sounded thin. I don't watch tv so can't comment on the sound of the speakers there.

I am surprised about the drum comment. That was one area where I thought the M80s were amazing.

Give it a few more days. If you still don't like them, send them back. There are some people that find this speaker too bright.

I'm glad your wife likes the looks.

I spent a good deal of time scouring AVS forums (and other forums a bit) mostly looking at Paradigm/ Klipsch. When I was pointed to Axiom, it appeared a very good value/quality. I was hesitant at first to come to an Axiom sponsored forum for objective advice. I have found the folks here pretty even handed in recommendations. You expect a lot of owner enthusiasm on a (mostly) owner's forum.

Bob, I would try not to turn sour yet. Please report back here with your amp settings, room size, all speaker distances to primary listening position, etc. Folks here will be more than happy to share their experience on possible tweaks to improve. I certainly can relate to your extreme excitement during the selection process, finally pulling the trigger and then waiting for arrival. I am where you were at the 'almost final decision stage'. (M60, VP150, QS8, backs not finalized ;o)

To have this level of excitement puts a big expectation on the first hearing. It may turn out that the Axioms do not indeed appeal to your ears for this is a highly personal preference. I loved the analogy I read recently: Most could agree on a woman being beautiful or... not so much. But to get most to agree on which woman is the 'most' beautiful... not going to happen.

Bob, please try toput your first impression on hold until you give yourself the opportunity to be sure there is not some (of the gazillion) setting that might not be correct in your system. Or room placement/ acoustics might be changed to a positive affect. I know from setting up my new Denon 1909 recently, I missed an important setting or two! You owe it to your self for any possibilty you don't need to incur return shipping at a minimum. I know getting past the initial disappointment is tough.

Anyway best wishes to you in getting to a sound that you really love.

Dave
owner in waiting (on that final decision... again ;o)

+1

Given his penchant for making outlandish statements to yank people’s chains, (Trying to be funny?), I’m surprised anyone is still taking him seriously when he says this stuff. You reap what you sow, or at least should anyway. Bored now!

BOB, please help us folks who are in the pre-order mode by coming back with more info. You have an opportunity to possibly help others and/or help yourself. I hope you can set your frustration aside for a bit, to help others!



Bob,
I truly hope you will come back to share your settings.
Even if you 'believe' there is no chance anything could change how you M80's sound to you, you have an opportunity to help out the rest of us who are planning on buying soon! If you were to post back here with your settings, I have the opportunity to take your perspective into consideration. As of now, your reaction does not have enough information (your settings please) to help the rest of us whom are a step behind you (pre-order) to use your experience to add to our decision choice(s).

Wid, thanks for calling attention to that. I wouldn't like someone calling me a nutcase either unless I knew them well. I see a lot of sharp barbs flying around on this forum; but they are usually between people who are well acquainted and consider themselves friends. I agree that "give what you get" makes sense; but it's also subjective.

By the way please quote me correctly: The spelling I used was "pooed". I think that's from Winnie the Poo. And I demand an apologiky. That's from popeye.

Bill

Sorry Bill didn't intend on misquoting you. In any case it (pooped)seems to fit in this case. Pooed or pooped they both would smell bad.

The first act's been pretty good, but I hope the protagonist returns in the second act.

Gotta go refill the popcorn.

Where is Tom with that beer?!

I didn't know we were a scatalogically correct forum. Live and learn.

Hey Bob,

Think the M80's are bright? Try turning the treble down on the AVR. It made all the difference for my vinyl and some of the newer "louder is better" cds. Not sure what AVR you have, but in my Onkyo the treble is located in a menu called 'tone controls'.

Second thing, don't base anything on TV. It is not consistent from station to station, program to program. Movies and good music (NOT MP3 or similar) is the way to go.

Hope you find what you like with Axiom or any other brand.

Winnie the Pooh demands an apology.

Everybody just remember, no matter what pmbuko tells you, it's not free chocolate.

(adapted from "Elf")

If I were Peter's sis, I would spend my lifetime plotting revenge! ::rubs hands together::

CV, Pooh it is and I do apologize to Pooh.

It was the "friendly barbs" that created such a friendly atmosphere and the potential for newbies to see the opportunity to join in the "fun". It would be hard for a newbie to understand that these "friendly barbs" are only intended for the "veteran click". I was once told to not be so thin skinned about some of the comments coming my way. Sorry if you are too thin skinned to have been offended by "vinyl freak' and sorry to see others jump on your pity party.

I posted earlier only to give my first impressions. As most of you know I have been concerned with the potential of these being bright and now I see rightfully so. I remember so well my audition of the Studio 60's. I didn't want to get up out of the chair and leave the store. These speakers were not located in their prime listening room. In fact the store's fron window was at my back so I know it wan't the most ideal room situation.

I know that my room is not ideal. 16 1/2' x 13' with the TV in a corner with the speaker on the right side into the 10 x 10 foyer area that extends beyond the back of this corner area. Only the M80's hooked up in stereo set to large. I know what a snare drum sounds like. I have band rehearsal every Tursday. The Allman Brothers Fillmore East is classic and I know what their 2 drummers sound like through most systems I have heard since 1971 (or whenever it was that it came out).
I can see how the clarity and detals of the M80's would entrigue the jazz and classical enthusiasts. I just feel something is missing in here. The guitar in the Allman Bros also didn't sound right and I am a guitarist whose emphasis has been quality tone in my personal endevours.

For the newbies here. I can't count how many times the advice on other forums has been to listen to speakers BEFORE you buy them. I thought with the many comparisons by those here and the return policy of Axiom, that it was a no brainer to get them. And I bought them with NO intention of returning them. The enthusiastic comments such as if you liked the Studio 60's you will love the M80's as they compare more to the Studio 100's. (I never heard the Studio 100's)

I also don't intend (nor can I) move the speakers all over my livingroom. I don't know what my next move will be but I am not happy at this point. I will play with he tone controls of my receiver but I thought the idea was to get a neutral, natural sounding speaker and not introduce tone shaping.

For the rest of you that continue to have a problem with me or can't or won't take me serious, I hope you don't choke on your popcorn.

What was this thread originally about? Sorry Bob I posted seconds after you did.

I hadn't heard Axioms before I bought them and am very satisfied. Neither the business model nor the forum are responsible for any individual's satisfaction. Respect engenders respect.

Bob, have you heard the Studio 60's IN YOUR ROOM? Have you heard the M80's in the same room that you heard the Studio 60's?



Spellcheck.

That's a good point Tom. If the dealer with the Studio 60s allowed Bob to bring the M80s to the store and compare the two directly in the same environment, that could put matters into perspective if the manager were to take him up on it. Some dealers would go for it, others probably not, but given the fact that there is a 30 day trial going forth with the Axioms the dealer should welcome the opportunity.

I don't care what anybody says, Bob is not a Fanboy! Just kidding Bob. Sorry it did not work out for you. I guess it would be too much to think everybody would like the Axioms. Guess that is why they have that 30 day period. I'd be interested in what speakers you end up with. My towers were very sharp in my last room with hardwood floors, unequal boundries, and many windows. Now, in a different room they sound much warmer with only a smig of the harsh edge they had - or my old room had. So let us know how it goes.

I'm still not sure it's not a receiver setting.....

Ah, and now... Act 2 Scene 1!!

*continues to enjoy popcorn*

Yeah, now it's getting good.

*leans in*

I thought why even bother posting back here in the first place. I also thought others that are considering Axiom should hear another perspective. I may just make it a mission to continue to get under certain people's skin. It sure would help me in my motivation to spend any further time posting on this forum whether or not I decide to keep these speakers.

Seems like a good use of time...I guess.
Then again, I heard the new PSB Imagine line is less forward than the next higher line. Try those...or not.

And here's my 500th post. It sure has been an adventure! Never expected a joyful quest would have come to this. Wonder how the next 500 will go.

So I join the ranks of "aficionado"!

Zimm's right. We'd all just add you to our personal "ignore" lists, or you'd get yourself banned by an administrator, or something.

Hope you can get some satisfaction from your speakers, whether they be Axiom or others.

Bob, you do realize that the biggest factor in how a speaker sounds in your room is not the speaker, right? The room plays a huge role. Listen to other speakers in the same room and see what you think.

BTW - I play guitar and used to be in a band. Still, my opinion of what sounds good to me is just my opinion. It so happens that I don't like the album you are referring to (Allman Bros). Doesn't mean it isn't good, just not good to me. Same thing with speakers. Understand where I'm coming from?

Now that is ironic. You are now an Axiom aficionado and hate the speakers upon first listen. Wow, you can't write this stuff.

I remember when I first moved to our new house and put my M80's in my dedicated HT room. A huge room with 9 ft ceilings and nothing on the walls or no furnature. They sounded horrible. I almost wondered if they had been damaged in the move. After I got the furnature in and added some treatments on the walls and a little position tweaking, back came that sweet sound that I was used too (i was much relieved).

I have read artical after artical that says changing the accustics in your room, can make as big a difference as changing your speakers.

It is possible that the room accoustics at Bob's place don't work well with the M80's.

If that is the case, Bob, you have two options, change the room to match your speakers, or change your speakers to match your room. Which you choose is your call, we can only give advice.

Nobody here ever said this was going to be easy. But it is rewarding once you get it right.

Best of luck in what ever you decide.

paul

Talk about ironic. Keep posting here! :

Bob, I'm going to try something here, but...

Double check that all of the drivers on the speakers are firing. They could certainly sound thin if the woofers aren't hooked up (like if the binding straps are loose.

Hello BoB,

Have you tried listening to Direct Mode (Pure Direct?) on your Denon rather than stereo mode with your listening material?

Yeah, this wouldn't be the first time the binding straps came loose at shipping!

LOL Doc. Pass the poohcorn please. Tom, where's thr fr!@@&n beer dude! After such a long wait... it better not be no 'lite' beer!

Oh, don't worry about lite beer from Tom, Dave.

Bob,
I do not understand your anger at the posters on this forum? They share their enthusiasm as owners. The fact that the sound of the M80's grates on your sound preference does not make others liars or shills. Personalities differ widely obviously. If I were to receive my M60's etc (not ordered yet) and was very disappointed in their sound, I would be pissed too. But not at anyone but myself. I'd figure I'd taken a measured risk and was willing to accept the downside of having to pay return freight. I'd kick myself, like when I do not buy or sell a stock when I thought I should but didn't! That often cost much more than return freight, but it is all relative.

Bob, bottom line.. try breeeeeeeeeeathing....
This too shall pass. If you believe that you can get past this disappointment, or you believe that you cannot... you are right.

If choosing to be aggravated and pissed off works better for you, that's a way to go.

Dave, your presence here has been nothing short of delightful.

Sitting on my desk, unfortunately full of water since I am at work, is an Arrogant Bastard glass emblazoned with "Fizzy yellow beer is for wussies". I only begrudgingly acknowledge, but do not condone, the existence of "light" beer.

I just drank my last bottle of this the other day. Cheers!

Ok, I've heard of 'Near Beer'. Not sure if I like it.
NO beer... that is a definite suck. LOL

PS. I am new here. Has anyone ever seen this Tom person. ;o)
Or is he the Ghost of 'Beermas' Past? I'm thinking he may be a fig in y'alls imagination.

Zen-like words of wisdom.

Attitude and perception are crucial, in so many ways.

I was just SURE I was real. Hmph.

Welcome to the M60 Posse, Dave.

Isn't that you in your avatar? How much more real can you get?

Bob. If you don't like the M80s and loved the Studio 60s, start haggling with the dealer. The new Studio line is out so I am sure there is a deal to be had on 'old' stock, particularly with the economy the way it is.

I, like a number of others here am also a musician. though not a professional, I have played acoustic guitar for 30+ years. The acoustic work on Clapton's unplugged is outstanding on my M80s, even in my crappy room.

Tom,
I AM NOT SHORT, and stop calling me delightful! ;o)
Glad to see that you (virtually) exist, Tom. Intersting choice of pets, too.

BoB,
Before deciding to go the Axiom route, I spent some time calling all the Paradigm dealers w/in a 1.5 hour drive. I found for the v.4's a 25% discount was easy to get. I then went to my local Paradigm dealer ( a good guy I bought my used Servo15" sub from), and listened to Studio 20, 40, 60, 100's. All he was willing to sell for 25% off list. The dealers that are ordering are just getting the V.5's in.

I believe it would be prudent to try to compare the Studios and the M80s if possible in the same environment(dealer). The dealer's got nothing to lose if Bob were to bring his Axioms to the Paradigm dealer and everything to gain if he were to like the 'digms.
The worst thing that could happen is to return the Axioms, only to find out that the same issues remain with other speakers because of poor room acoustics or setup.
I've considered this myself, if I were able to bring my awaiting M80s to a Paradigm or MA dealer, just to do a direct comparison. I'm surprised the magazine guys haven't done more A/B testing with speakers in the $2G range(most popular).

Goooooddd Luck. No dealer is going to risk another customer walking in while your have a pretty new toy they don't sell. Maybe by after hours appointment, but I doubt that.

But what would the dealer have to lose? Bob's already bought the Axioms, the Paradigm dealer has the opportunity to convince him the 'digms are better, and return the Axioms under the 30 days. This way, Bob can know one way or the other, which he prefers, and the dealer has a chance to "steal" a sale. It's a win/win for Bob either way and the dealer would "break even" at worst. Maybe it could be done after hrs, but the point is the sale is already complete on the Ax's and the onus falls on the 'digm dealer to prove his are better and make a 'new' sale.

Adrian is right. The store has nothing to loose.

I know of a few stores here in London that would welcome the opertunity to sample the competition. You may want to do it on one of the not so busy days / times, like a Monday morning. Make sure you pre-arrange the session first. If the store has some sound rooms that you could close the door, even better.

paul

Wow, I just read 80 some odd posts. One question-is wrestling as good as this?? Sadly I might have to go back to my childhood

The dialog isn't as good, but men in spandex wearing makeup makes up for it.

Go back?

Okay, Bob, so your setup needs more work. You have the time, so relax and do it. The many owners who've experienced excellent sound when their M80s were properly set up aren't crazy or liars.

The first point is to make sure that all the drivers are actually working. Ken pointed out the importance of having the connecting strips on the binding posts tight(although you commented that bass was pretty good). Besides that, if the thin character in the upper bass/lower mid-range that you seem to be experiencing was due to damage that loosened internal wiring to the 5 1/4" mid-range driver you should carefully listen to make sure that it's actually operating.

Then, as has been mentioned here, you should position the speakers so that the distances from the centers of the woofer cones to the three nearest room surfaces(floor and walls)isn't identical. If they are, reflections can pile up in one frequency range, causing a suck-out which can make a speaker sound "thin", which the M80 certainly isn't inherently.

You mentioned a reluctance to do "tone shaping"; don't be reluctant, your ears and listening room are doing it to the speakers at every instant. When you get a chance later consider using the Audyssey room correction in your 2309(following the procedure suggested in the AVS thread)with the "Audyssey"(not the "flat") setting implemented. A more immediate step is to try a few dB of treble cut in the tone control or to toe the speakers out a bit so that you get a more off-axis treble response.

Good luck; things will probably work out.

Should have bought the M60s Bob .

So what have you tried, if anything, to get better sound out of the M80s? Have you tried any/all of the suggestions so far? With your odd shape layout, it is entirely possible the M80s (or possibly any other speaker) are incapable of reproducing the sound you desire.

I know we told you the Denon would be able to drive the M80s with out a problem but if you are driving the M80s hard you could be hearing some distortion from the amp making the treble even worse.

I know you say you have heard your reference cd on many systems through the years and it doesn't sound bad like it does on the Axioms. How many of those systems were as detailed(you have even said the Axioms are detailed) as the M80s. Could it be the M80s are in fact revealing the poor quality of this recording and you are only now just getting to hear it as it was recorded without coloration from other sources.

I agree TV isn't the best way to listen to speakers, the SQ varies so widely it is hard to account for the variances.

Judging by your comments it sounds like you might prefer a warmer more subdued speaker that emphasizes the midrange or rolls off the upper end more than the M80s, which brings me back to the M60s comment from the beginning as they are not as forward/bright as the M80s, more like the Studio 60s you heard, IMO.


If you can't get the M80s to sound right to you, I would at least try down sizing to the M60s before giving up on Axiom.

If you do end up with another brand I would be interested in knowing which ones you end up with.

Bob,
I almost sent my M80’s back after I first got them. My first impressions were similar to yours. The first thing I did was throw a rug down in front of them (I have hard wood floors). This made a world of difference. The second thing I did was re-position them to the side and rear walls. The M80’s need to breath. You want them at least 12” away from a back wall and at least that far away from side walls. They were still too bright for me, even though the bass and mid range improved. I called Axiom and they sent me four resisters to try. They go in line with the tweeters. With the resisters installed, all was glorious and I kept them. I have since removed the resisters, but only after I played with Audysey settings.

M80’s are not for everyone. I don’t listen to much Classical or Jazz. I tend to listen to more rock / Alt rock than anything. They sound good to me. They sound horrible with poorly recorded music though….. Make sure you give them a fair try with a disk that you know to be of good quality. Green Day, American Idiot or any of the Trapt disks are good alt rock disk that comes to mind. If those sounds like crap to you after you exhaust room set up suggestions, then I’d send them back.

Bob, as another example when I first got my M80's I was so excited to listen I hooked the up to my receiver and started to listen to some music. The speakers sounded like c**p. I couldn't figure out what was going on and was disappointed in my choice of speakers. It was then that I realised that I hadn't redone my calibration for the new speakers. the receiver was still set-up for my old ones. Once I did the recalibrating everything sounded great. I don't know if this is your situation but explore all your options brfore deciding yeh or neh.
Mel N.

I agree mdrew, once I padded/carpeted my basement, it was like night/day difference with the sound. Being a musician, Bob should understand that recording studios are treated for acoustic reflections. The same holds true for your home.

My M80s never sounded anything near what I would consider bright. My room however is treated with sound absorbers on the right and left walls. I noticed right off the bat however that poorly recorded music (many discs from the 80's) sounds terrible on them, and properly recorded/mastered discs sound wonderful. As an example, I had many of Billy Joel's original CDs from the 80's, and they just did not sound good at all. I purchased a remastered version of "An Innocent Man", and it was a night and day difference (I went on to replace all of my Billy Joel CDs with the remastered versions, and the same outcome occurred).

The M80s (IMHO, and from my own experiences) are VERY revealing speakers. They really are the epitome of a garbage in garbage out set of speakers. You should take some time to experiment a bit, maybe share some of your settings with us, and maybe all of us could help you out.

That's surprising Bob, I'm pretty fussy and used to play quite a bit of electric guitar back in the day, perhaps the HFs in my ears are a bit "rolled off" but I am skeptical because so many others find them to be accurate sounding as do I. Perhaps you need a pair of Maggies, which supposedly are uber-realistic. I agree with what others have said regarding the need of the M80s to breathe, depending on the size of your room, you may need to move them out a bit from the wall, at the moment I have mine around 2 feet out based on initial listening, however I am in a preliminary phase of speaker placement. Also, I find they sound better and better as I flesh out the sound system, e.g., 7.1 surround to me sounds much better than M80s alone, and Neo:6 or PLIIx beats stereo for music playback.

Well thanks for sharing, hope you succeed in finding what you are looking for, you clearly have worked harder than most to attain the perfect setup.

Hi Bob,

re: I know that my room is not ideal. 16 1/2' x 13' with the TV in a corner with the speaker on the right side into the 10 x 10 foyer area that extends beyond the back of this corner area.

Please keep in mind the following assumes two channel listening, no sub.

I’ve been trying to picture this in my head. From your statement above, it appears like one speaker is firing out of the corner and the other, the speaker on the right, is firing with no wall behind it whatsoever.

If this is the case, and I hope I’m not being presumptuous, the speaker on the left is going to have an exaggerated upper bass response because it’s firing out of a corner. The speaker combines with the wall and the area becomes a big horn. This would account for seemingly adequate bass. (Just ask the guy’s at Klipsh)

Now the right speaker:

If I’m picturing your room correctly, the right speaker’s rear wave is essentially being fired into infinity, again if this is the case; the bottom end from this speaker would drop out almost completely leaving you with just the higher frequencies. This could account for the overly “bright” response your hearing.

In any case, as I’m sure you know, to achieve great audio one must sometimes make compromises in room location and even furnishings, that being said, you might have no choice but to move things around, speaker brand notwithstanding.

I hope my words have helped. Good luck to you Bob.

Hello BoB/335,

You spent an exorbant amount of time and money with this purchase. Now that we are at this point I hope you post back with more questions pertaining to your setup or give Axiom a call.

Cheers

I do not think it means what you think it means. --Inigo Montoya

Axioms are definitely not exorbitantly (definition: beyond reason) priced. They are very close to the bottom end of the scale (if not THE bottom) if you were to compare them against other similarly good speakers.

Taking into consideration both the amount of time Bob spent on this forum deciding on his brand and choice of speakers (how many posts did he make regarding this?) as well as the money spent on his current system. The average Joe can't afford M80's, EP500, QS8, VP150 and a nice Denon receiver . Bottom line, its a big purchase, he spent a great deal of time on it and I hope he does not give up on it too early.

He does not appear to be open for suggestions.

Nah, he's gone and tweaked his room, found better-recorded CDs, and is in audio heaven right now, unable to drag himself to a computer.

Not in a piano black or rosewood finish..... They are in line, if not more expensive than comparable speakers, which USUALLY, come with the same quality of finish as the VS line.

I've been away for a bit, and really just skimmed this thread. But it sounds to me like people jumped all over Bob for his "fanboy..." comment. I took it as him wondering out loud more than an insult. I thought his post was not pejorative. He's obviously used to something and M80's aren't that.

I do agree with others in that speakers up to this point hid the fact that Bob's reference music has been flawed all this time and he just noticed it. It's possible. Perhaps you can go to HDTracks and download some samples? This way, Bob can judge on sound and not on "I'm used to this sound and it's the right sound"

Just a thought.

Oh, and what receiver do you use? Was it calibrated for your old speakers?

He is using a Denon 2309, IIRC.

When it comes to trying to help a guy get the best sound out of his speakers, you guys sure are a helpful bunch of biased, lying, cheating, Axiom fanboys.

Jay, I love Ahmed the dead terrorist. But, I love Walter more. He's my hero.

I just wanted to nominate Jason to chair the Axiom Fanboy Constituent Relations Work Team.

There's a better acronym in there somewhere.

Fanboys of Axiom Relations Team?

Hot air, hot air.

Walter would love that acronym!

Bob,

It just seems odd to me how much time you have spent posting on this site before the speakers came, and very little afterward. No details, no measurements, no replies when people tried to help you out (myself included). I'm here to offer advice if you need some input.

Bob has left the building!

INDEED! LOL!

I tell you what. I'm a URC fanboy (that's no lie) and proud of it.

Nah, he's been posting more of his thoughts over at AVS.

I'm sure the AVS trolls are soaking it up. Not sure about ole Bob anymore.

I just posted this link in one of Bob's other threads. I forgot about this one.

So Bob finally learned his room is not ideal and needs to further tinker with his setup. Bob was already given that great advice here. I guess he does not like to get advice from people that actually own the M80's and that have many years of experience with them but rather seeking advice all over the internet. I don't have a problem with that but I just don't get it.

He should ask Axiom to send some resistors to put on the tweeters and work on some treatments for his room.

That's funny. It only took about 3 post before someone asked Bob why he thought he had not received a warm welcome. Bob does not seem to play well with others. Oh well. I hope he gets it worked out...so we don't have to hear the complaints any more.

The man seeks attention.
You can lead a horse to water but, you can’t make it drink.

I think Bob mellowed out after the audition. For some people (including myself) buying speakers can be hugely stressful, since outside of a good GTG it's almost impossible to hear all the speakers that interest you in the same environment.

The only option is to make a decision based on the opinions of a bunch of people who may have different tastes from you... and for anyone with a "work it out for yourself" kind of nature that kind of dependence-on-well-intentioned-strangers can drive you crazy.

It does seem that Bob's room was part of the problem, although not all of it. I suspect that he would have been pretty much as unhappy with Studios in that room, but that's just a guess from the comments in the audition thread.

AVS member Nuance kicked off what turned out to be a 219-page thread outlining his audition experiences and conclusions. Probably a good read if I ever find the time

The room treatments make a big difference. Of all the things I did to make the sound better, the addition of the sound absorbers on the walls made the biggest difference. The second biggest difference was what I did this last weekend. I'll post that in a new thread "EP800 experiences".

Very well put Bridgeman. I was lucky enough to be within driving distance of Axiom, so that eliminated any stress. I suspect that you are also right about the Studios.

FWIW I just came back from a production of Cats in the best acoustic space in Canada (well, maybe second best now that toronto has the Opera) and I must say that the music was every bit as 'bright' as what I am used to with the M80s. Either you like that sound, or you don't.

Unless, of course, you drove up the 400 in the middle of cottage season. Now THAT is stressfull, esp spending 1-2 hrs just to get through Barrie.

That is something I have been saying recently, having attended some live/loud music theater last month. My system gives me the same sound, bright(extra treble), a tad harsh at times, I have always told my wife that was the sound I was striving for and now that I have it, it must be time for a change.

2 more posts till I evolve........

Perhaps what I wrote in my last post was uncalled-for, so my apologies to Bob.

I noticed a post on that link, eluding to the fact that Axioms are too "light" and therefor must be poorly made.

Here's some food for thought....

Axiom M80.......56.8 lbs
Axiom M60.......47.6 lbs

B&W 703.........60 lbs
B&W 704.........46 lbs

Mon. Aud RS6....39.6 lbs
Mon. Aud RS8....46.2 lbs

Considering the fact that M60s/M80s are really medium sized towers, their weight, if that is sooooo important, is in line with other notable speakers.

Wow, I just spent two whole days reading this thread as well as the thread on the Salk forum. And all I can say is that I'm fairly weary now of how the M80's will sound in my dedicated HT room. The reason for this is that I have hard wood floors, and it's very square (24 x 24), and I have leather furniture as well with no wall treatments (do wall portraits count as treatments?). I'm not sure whether or not I'm a 'bright' fan or not to be honest. The only two speakers I've owned in the past were a bottom-line set of Sony's, and a very modest ($650 dollar a pair) set of Cerwin Vega's. Neither of which would I be able to discribe very accurately as either 'bright' or 'laid-back'... I'd just call them 'cheap'!

And cheap just means that I was putting up with them, waiting till the day I could afford some 'real' speakers. Well that day is here, and now I'm wondering if $1200 dollars is enough to spend to get a 'real' set of speakers? Or will I buy the M80's and realize that I should have spent an extra $800 dollars on my purchase to get something that is actually a respectable loudspeaker? I'm really not trying to ruffle any feathers in this thread, and I do realize that most here are listening to M80's with great satisfaction, so naturally you feel you have 'real' speakers. I'm just truely looking for the best bang for my buck, and right now I can definately afford $2000 dollar tower speakers. To be honest my first attempts at researching tower speakers started in the $2000 dollar range, because I used to want to get the Cambridge Soundwork towers that they used to sell for $2000 dollars.

But when they no longer carried those, I searched elsewhere, and my research also concerned subwoofers. That's when Axiom popped up, and when I started to research the HT packages the M80's sounded to be a hellofa bargain at $1200. But I told myself they were actually at least $2400 dollar speakers if sold through a retailer (the average retailer doubles the price of their merchandise), so the fact that they were only $1200 dollars through Axiom's 'direct internet' sales approach seemed like a bargain. But it sounds as though maybe there are better choices out there for my budget.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that the M80's are fantastic for $1200 dollar floor standing speakers, it's just that I'm looking more at the $2000 dollar end of the quality spectrum. So I hope there aren't any hard feelings, or thoughts that I don't respect the choices of most on this board if indeed I don't decide the M80's are what I desire. I've heard a lot of praise on this board (of coarse), but the voices here are also very impartial.

I'm still very confident that the EP800, VP150, and the QS8's are a solid choice to fill my HT requirements out. It's just when I'm listening to my system in a dedicated two channel musical reproduction arrangement that I'm starting to stress out over whether or not I'll be truely happy with the decision to go completely Axiom. They would no doubt be worlds better than anything I've had to date, but how long before I realize I wish I'd just spent the extra money to get something even better? Oh sure there is ALWAYS more money to be spent to improve upon sound quality. I mean once I look in the $2000 dollar range I'll probably stumble across some $3000 dollar speakers that put them to absolute shame. Then as soon as I've given my wallet the green light to reach up to the $3000 dollar speakers, I'll suddently find some $4000 dollar speakers that make the $3000 dollar speakers sound like complete garbage, and so on and so on into infinity. Eventually I'll wind up with a $25,000 dollar pair of speakers that 'could have sounded better had I just spent $30,000 dollars'!!!

So I'm well aware that $2000 dollars isn't the magical point in which speakers suddenly leap to life or anything like that. I guess I'm just more insecure now that Bob has gone and pissed on everyone's parade here at Axiom and brought to the table a huge list of complaints I've never really read before about the speakers. And although I'm aware than non-Axiomites will have greatly differing opinions on the M80's than those who live with them everyday, it was quite an eye opener to read so many people refering the the M80's as a 'bright' speaker... and not just as in a little too much treble, but rather rough treble at that.

Perhaps I just need a good slap in the head?

Micah, I think you really should get an audition of the M80s to see if they're what you like. You're up against some issues with the square room, but I'm not sure that you'll necessarily need wall treatments. I think it's very likely that Bob didn't know what he was looking for in a speaker, and after all the anticipation occurred, he was a little let down.

Also, if you're desperate to buy $2000 speakers, I'm sure you could get custom finish on the M80s that take them up to that level. Failing that, I'm sure Axiom would be happy to accommodate by charging you more.

What I'm trying to say is that just because speakers cost a certain amount doesn't mean they're that amount better than speakers that cost less.

Does insulation inside the walls play a big role? I doubled the R-value in my home theater/den to R-30 and have always wondered if it would be beneficial or detrimental.

That room is going to be a challenge to make any speaker sound it's best. Square rooms have issues with standing waves (the speed of sound / 24' is 46 Hz). Plus all those hard surfaces are going to cause reflections.

A $1200 speaker plus $800 (probably don't even need to spend that much) in treatments will sound better than any $2000 speaker in that room.

Look at a rug for the floor between the speakers and your listening position. Then some diffusion for the first reflection points along the walls and perhaps ceiling. Also some bass traps tuned to the major modes of the room for the corners.

To keep it short, aside from Bob's negative comments how many others have you seen here? Of course on other forums you will see more, but you would think another unsatisfied owner would post here as well.

I would not worry about your decision until you actually hook them up and give them a chance.

As a side note, it seems a large majority of people come here wanting M80's or decide to go for the best once asking questions or being persuaded by members. However, everyones perception of bright/detailed is different and it may not be the sound signature that you're after. If that's the case then people should really be looking towards (in my opinion) M3's or M50's and potentially the M60. And yes I've heard them all, some at Axiom and some in my house.

I love my M60's and have no desire to get M80's. When I upgraded my old M60's the upgrade was for High Gloss. I could have easily went for the M80's but choose not to. I also had a beautiful set of Vassallo M3's that I loved and their sound was very different but just as enjoyable...wish I kept them for another room, instead I replaced them with rear QS8's.

I would LOVE to audition some M80's, but where? And where could I put them up against some fairly competetive speakers (price wise) that are a different approach? I guess this is a unfair expectation really, in this realm of high end audio there just don't seem to be very many venue's in which you can compare similar brands head to head. Which is a shame because it get's expensive and truely time consuming ordering in equipment, testing it out, then sending it back to test something else out that you're curious about. I guess what I'm after is the impossibe.

Too bad the EP800 wasn't availible earlier, I would already own the M80's and probably be in love with them by now, blowing Bob's opinion off as unsubstantiated. But as it is, I'm just afraid I'll end up the next 'Bob'! =(

Insulation inside the walls will have next to no affect on the sound inside the room. It will turn some of the sound energy which would have normally escaped to the next room or outside into heat.

The surfaces in the room have the biggest influence over the mids to highs, and the dimensions of the room over the bass.

People say "sound absorption" material. But in most cases one doesn't want to absorb (that is capture and turn to heat) the mids and highs. What should be done is to treat the first reflection points with diffusers which prevent the reflections from reaching the ear only a split second after the direct radiation from the speakers (which causes a smearing in the sound), but doesn't remove the sound energy from the room.

Low frequency energy doesn't really reflect though, it more builds up in a room making it sound boomy. So in this case one does want to capture that excess. This is best done in the corners or at least where the floors or ceiling meet walls, this is where the greatest pressure build-ups can be tamed.

After all this is handled it is then much easier to clean up the rest with an EQ.

Bob's opinion was the first truely negative response I've read here. That is a good thing I suppose, but then again we're talking about an 'Axiom' forum. Not everyone here has Axiom mains though, is this because they couldn't afford the M60's or M80's? Or was it because they found something they like better for the same or perhaps a little highter price?

The wall treatments are sort of an issue... (this is all in planning, it's not operational yet, but this is the plan) you see our living room will double as our sales room. We are photographers, and we will be bringing our customers in to see their photo's on our 65' television so that they can order their pictures. We will be combining music with the slide show to enhance the emotional response upon viewing their pictures (very important and a huge sales advantange). So we have very large wall portraits all over the room to show our customers how impressive a large wall portrait is. Therefore there is no room for wall treatments (hence the question on whether or not wall portraits could count? we have both gallery wraps as well as framed pictures with glass).

We are planning on an area rug somewhere around 12 x 16 or so to go in the middle of the room around with two couches and a love seat will sit. So what I'm wondering is will the M80's fill this room with warm, emotionally responsive music? Or will they fill the room with shrill and sharp treble that will make the experience more uncomfortable than accomodating? You see I have more than just personal taste to worry about here. I also have my customers to worry about. Of course that could be an entirely impossible journey (to find a speaker that EVERYONE would enjoy). So I guess what I'm wondering is do MOST people find the M80's to be enjoyable?

On this forum that answer is definately a yes. I don't suppose there is really any way to know the whole truth though unless I knew what the return percentage is over at Axiom. A number I'm sure they aren't ready to discuss unless it is indeed rediculously low.

Micah, I'd never describe my M80s (or any Axioms I've heard, including M80s in a giant cavern of a room with a marble floor and a severe lack of furniture and room treatments) as being shrill or sharp. How loud are you planning to play this stuff for your clients? If you're under 80 dB, you should be just fine. If you're going to blast them out of their seats, well, you've got more problems than just a live room!

On the positive side of Bob's research, in the end he did discuss (as did everyone attending the Song Towers vs M80's showdown) that the M80's had great bottom end. Of coarse they used 'boomy' to discribe the M80's compared to a 'tighter, more subdued' bottom end for the Song Towers. What this really tells me though is that the Song Towers don't reach as deep, or play as loud of bass more than anything. And that is a good thing in my opinion (concerning the performance of the M80).

I do likey the bass!

How far is Richmond from Indy? There are folks in Indy willing to audition.

Well, that was a painful thread to read. I don't know if I would reach the same conclusion as the testers did, but clearly the M80s are not the speaker for Bob.

Ha ha, well the average customer will probably be presented with music well below even 80 db... however the seniors will probably appreciate being blown out of their seats!!! lol

If you're talking about all the people who wrote off the M80's as an 'inferior' speaker, then I'm with you. Like I was saying that's the first time I've really seen a lot of people agreeing on Axiom's as 'bright'. There didn't seem to be a lot of love for Axiom on that sight, I don't know if this is indicitive of most other forums as well, or just on the Salk site. All I do know is it put a lot of doubt in my head.

Now that I've had time to settle down I'm trying to be more subjective and realize that it's truely hard to find a speaker that EVERYONE can agree on. Personal tastes truely are the biggest factor, but that's just it, I don't even have enough experience to know what my personal tastes are right now.

Sad, ain't it!

I'm 70 miles from Indy, not a long haul at all! So if anyone in that area would be up for a demo, I'd happly come be your victim... er, guest!

Sorry to quote myself, but upon rereading I thought I'd just clarify that I meant 'high school' seniors in that post, not people over the age of 60!

Call Axiom and see if they will help you in getting an audition.

Indianapolis - M60s (frenche)
Indianapolis - M22, EP175 (rperkins - randyperkins at randyperkins.com)

These two are in the audition thread.

Tell you what, I'll ship my M80s to my Grandmother in Bloomington.

Wait, no I won't.

Excellent idear... if it's warm enough I could ride my motorcycle up there through Brown County (excellent motorcycling roads there in Brown County), and maybe pick up some of their fine local wine!

You're obsessing over minutiae.



They're going to fill the room with whatever source you feed them. Axiom speakers don't degrade perfectly nice source material into "shrill".

Get an audition. Or, get the M22's and audition them with a good sub. If you don't like the M22's, it won't cost very much to return them. If you do like them, Axiom will probably accommodate your upgrade gratis during the trial period.

Dude.

I have to wonder if they did a double (or even single) blind on those tests, or if they just hooked it up, then detached, then hooked up. Audio memory is a transitory thing, and easily influenced by other factors. Such as going in loving Salks and being none too thrilled with Axioms... but maybe I'm wrong.

Ken you know that's what they did, therefore imo should be taken with a grain of salt.

Micah, there isn't a speaker brand out there that doesn't have it's detractors. Try to not allow negative opinions to deter you from buying, cuz, if you do, you'll never make a purchase.

Likewise, positive opinions are no guarantee that any speaker is for you. Speaker preference is completely subjective. The only opinion that matters is YOURS.

Your square, hard surfaced room might be reason for concern, but it would be a concern with any speaker, not just Axioms.

I'll give you the same advice I gave Bob. Try to avoid letting your expectations get too pumped. No speaker will cure acne, eliminate cavities, or cause Angelina Jolie to jump into your lap (more's the pity ).

When the speakers arrive, fire them up the first time with an open, neither pro nor con, "we'll see" attitude. Indulge in at least 3 weeks of comfortable, relaxed, no pressure listening to a variety of music and movies, both familiar and new, BEFORE reaching any conclusions. During that period, try, as much as possible, to NOT listen to your system. Listen to the MUSIC; get into the MOVIE; ENJOY yourself. At the end of the 3 weeks, you'll KNOW if the Axioms are for you.

If you are dissatisfied, you may return the speakers within 30 days for a complete refund of your purchase price. Yes, you would pay the return shipping costs but, if you think of that as the cost of renting a set of speakers for 30 days to be certain they are what you want, that expense can be less painful.

OK Micah, I agree with everything every one here has said.

I suggest you learn about the law of diminishing returns. This is the number one rule of audio. Up to a point, once you start doubling the cost you don’t necessarily double the sound quality. In fact you will find that even tripling or quadrupling a price will only yield minimal improvements in sound quality. Granted there are exceptions to every rule, to say that a $10,000 speaker puts a $5000 or even $2000 speaker to shame is far from audio gospel. Again each to their own and this is very subjective.

I look at it this way. The Corvette at over 90 grand is a sweet ride, but you can get a GT Cobra Mustang for less than half the price, It’s not a Vette, but hell, it’s a really fun car to drive and I’d love one in my driveway.

paul

Good points by all...

The one question I have is, after 3 weeks of listening, would I really realize how well I love the M80's? Or would I just be 'used' to them? In other words, by the end of the 3 weeks I may not think much is wrong with them, but then a few months later when my friend buys 'x' brand and I go over to his house I'll realise what a huge mistake I've made?

Ha ha, that's not for real, I was just teasin. I certainly wouldn't buy these speakers, even in trial mode if I truely thought I would EVER think it was a huge mistake! I don't think the M80's would ever be a huge mistake, I'm just curious now if there are speakers worth the extra $800 to move up into the $2000 dollar range. When I first started skimming this forum I was under the impression the M80's were in direct competition with speakers that cost between $2000 and $2500 dollar speakers. But now I'm sort of wondering if that's the case?

So here is the frustrating thing about this hobby. You could listen to speakers that are $3000 and not like them as much as the M80's, and or you could listen to speakers that are $1800 and like them more than the M80's.

Because there is no governing body that regulates the price of speakers base on how they sound, any company can charge what ever they want.

I find that companies like B&W who make really good quality sounding speakers are very much over priced compaired to Axiom or even Paradigm. But the company still does well, because of a very well known brand name, maket perception and history.

I loved the B&W 703, but refused to pay almost double for to me what was a very small improvment in sound quality.

paul

Micah,
Though I had been planning on M60's mostly due to the M80's 4 ohms, with my modest 90 wch Denon 1909, I too was curious about the M80's tremendous popularity here but also concern if they would be more treble-ee than I would prefer. I had not heard M60's spoken of that way. But then, MUCH less period is mentioned about M60's vs. the M80's here. I have read many happy M60 owners here. So for me it was somewhat easier to hold back on my more/bigger is better (for me).

All that being said, I hope to be auditioning some M60's Thursday (thanks to Adam :o). I was at Best Buy picking up some source demo material and took the opportunity to listen to some speakers that are pretty universally considered brighter than most speakers. I heard the Klipsch Icon W-35 towers (3- 5 1/4" bass + 1" twtr. Now I know that this level of 'bright' or accentuated trebble was not for me. The source was Dave Matthews &Tim R. Live at Radio City (BD not CD), which I was told was a good demo piece. It sounded annoyingly trebbble-ee and harsh to me. The Magnolia room was (short and wide) did not seem to help the sound.

Anyway, now I have some kind of frame of reference to know if, for me, the M60's are tame enough on the mids/highs for my taste. I still do hope to audition a pair of M80's. But as soon as I get my color samples from Axiom (next Tuesday :o( ), I will place my order (M60's, VP150, 4-QS8's). If I happen to hear and fall in love with the M80's AND be able to get over my concern of 90 watts/ch maybe not being enough for the M80's (AS I HAVE BEEN TOLD TO DO ON MANY OCCASIONS, EVEN BY Alan Lofft ;o), I'll call in to change my Factory Outlet order.

Bottom line, if you want to find out what 'bright' sounds like, go hear some Klipsch's. I've heard no one imply M80's are an in the 'brightness league' with Klipsch's horn type tweeter.

Disclaimer... Klipsch makes an awesome product. My wife just finally persuaded me to get rid of the Cornwalls I've had for 26 years! (bought when rock and roll could never be too loud! ;o)

Micah,

For what it's worth, I too was in a similar position as you. I can tell you I have over 4000 cubic feet of space I had to fill with sound, all hardwood floors, open floor plan, and concrete tile in the dining area. I lease my house and I have absolutely nothing on the walls.

I also researched speakers for about 3 months & had about $2000.00 to spend. I had an old set of boston acoustics A100's I purchased about 20 years ago and I wanted to be 100% sure this would be my last speaker purchase for years to come. I had read almost all the forums, even the "bright" issue on the M80's. I was very close to getting Salk song towers (glad I didn't) due to "the thread" on another forum as well as reviews. But, I took the chance and for what I wanted to spend, I could get the M80's and the EP350 sub.

Now, I am definitely 90% music / 10% HT, so I was really focused on 2.1 channel listening. Just one man's opinion here, but over a month later I cannot tell you how totally happy I am with my purchase. From my past posts, you will see that speaker placement was critical for me.

With my room the way it is, I have never perceived my system as bright or harsh. Even today I read about this speaker and that speaker and how great they are, etc, etc. All I can say is I personally have no buyers remorse whatsoever. I could have easily sent them back for something else, but why? I was happy, I was blown away by my new system, and "for me" & "my ears", I just felt I wasn't going to do any better for the money. Over a month later I still can't wait to get home from work and crank up the M80's

"IMO of course"

Dana

Glad you didn't because you heard some later for comparison? Or happy you didn't because you're so in love with your Axiom's?

In the 20 plus years I’ve been in this hobby and the dozens of speaker auditions I’ve attended and hosted, I have never heard truly terrible loudspeakers, at least ones manufactured by respected companies.
Respectfully everyone, they’re just loudspeakers! If you’re that worried about making a terrible choice, I suggest purchasing for a retail outlet. There are plenty of excellent choices out there.
Keep in mind, if your listening environment sucks, there are very few, if any, speakers that will accommodate your situation.

Axiom designs and manufactures decent equipment, and for the price, you truly cannot go wrong with this choice.

And that my friends you can accept as an AXIOM.

Micah,

I live in Fishers IN (well, part time... usually on the road for work). I'd be happy to have you over to listen to my setup. PM me if interested. I'll be back home the weekend after this one (Friday March 6th and Saturday March 7th). I have a pair of M80s, two EP800s, a VP150, and four QS8s).

You bring the beer.

Steve

There ya go, ya can't beat that.

(Hot damn, someone finally gave an invitation! :D)

I'll bring myself some Corona or perhaps Newcastle, what do you drink?

(rubs hands together)...

And not that fizzy yellow crud, either!

Steve "the quote machine" hasn't invited anybody ELSE over. Sniff.

Keep in mind, this is just my opinion & I never auditioned the Song Towers I'm glad I didn't because of:

-The cost of the ST
-Read about "some" lack of bottom end on the ST
-Power handling capability of the M80's(I love it LOUD)
-2 mids & one tweeter vrs Axiom's dual 3 way combo
-I wanted a new sub (for the money I had)
-Craigsub A/B blind test with M80's against the $4,000.00 Energy Veradis 2.4 (M80's won)
-These forums...:)
-Customer service
-Reviews on the M80's
-and yes, in love with the M80's EP350 combo

I think I can go on, but thats just some of the reason I'm glad I didn't get the song towers. I still think (IMO) there's just no way the ST's 2 way design with those small woofers can crank like the M80's. With my RPA-2, these M80's will hurt my ears standing back 10 feet! and still no distortion.

Ok, I'm done...good god I just read my own post back and what a freakin fanboy I am! Sorry man, it's just the way I feel, couldn't help it.

Dana

Oh yea, I can't wait till I get my Marantz SR7002!!! soon...very soon...

Oh cool, now I'm really interested! You see the RPA-2 has been my amp of choice for the last few months after reading countless reviews on it. It's supposed to be a real 'quality over quantity' amp, but at 350 watts per channel I'm sure it's no slouch either!

Perhaps Bob is just a flake after all!

Well said Fanboy. I feel the same way. I still blame Wid though. He made me take the leap.

Yea Micah,

When I first connected my RPA-2 up, I was stunned! I posted a thread here somewhere about it, drooling all over myself.

Good luck to ya, enjoy that audition!

Dana

Darn right, do you regret it

Nope

That's who it was! Freakin Wid! It's all his fault!

"and I thank him greatly"

Dana

I try

Heh!

Well, I sent Micah an invite for Friday, March 6th at 10am. You are more than welcome to join Tom! (as well as any other regulars who can make it then).

Steve

And what was it hooked up to previous to the RPA-2? Did you find a particular improvement in any area (like perhaps a little less bright, a little more laid back, tighter bass, bigger midrange, etc...), or just an over all improvement in everything?

Sorry to bug you, but you have pretty much the same set-up I'm looking at getting, so I'm very curious as to the sound you're gettin out of it!

I will very much look forward to the audition. His dual EP800 set up will probably make me want to part ways with an extra $2200 bucks or so, but I'll survive.

(perhaps I'll get him so drunk he won't notice the 'extra' EP-800 missing for a few days?)

For a little counterpoint on the Songtower here is a quote from this review.

"My other main quip has to do with the treble. Although the SongTowers well-rounded and likable high end is easy on the ears, it lacks natural bite and grit that real instruments have. Those who place high value on frequency extension, detail, air, and desire to have a lively presentation will want to go with the upgraded ribbon tweeter – which is available from Salk Sound at an additional charge."

Bob wants a much more laid back speaker than the M80. Some people do. I stongly suspect I would continue to prefer the M80 for its 'live' sound.

Strangely, Bobs review of the songtower/M80 at audioholics was quite ballanced and he pretty much stated it was a sound he did not like. He also mentioned that the speakers did not sound as brite to him in his host's abode (pretty much admiting by implicationthat his room is also an issue).

Thanks, Steve!!

But I'm, um "busy" that morning. Or 2,000 miles away. Or both.

Raincheck?

HeHe,

The M80's were on my Yamaha HTR5760 (old).
Read my post here, when I first got the RPA-2, it's good read if I do say so myself! And yes, tighter, deeper bass, punching midrange, crystalline highs, all that...

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=15987&Number=241673#Post241673

Dana

You have an open raincheck Tom. Just didn't want to leave you out.

Hmmmm... Steve isn't alowing me to bring beer now, insisting he'd be happy just to enjoy some music with me (how modest). But I'm not about to give up that easy, does anyone here have any idea what he favors? I'm bringing the refreshments damn it, if it's the last thing I ever do!!!!

Wow I'm so pumped about this demo I can't even stand to think it's a week and a half away!

Now I must think carefully about my music choices, as they will play a big role in figuring out if these are indeed the speakers for me. I will be playing a large range of music for customers, but in the end it is truely about what I prefer that makes or breaks this deal!

I will have to bring some Tom Cochrane ('All the Kings Men' was an all time favorite bass song back in the day when I had the kicker system pimpin around in my Z24!). Then there's Pink Floyd, Journey (how do the M80's handle Steven Perry's unbelievable voice?), ooooh Boston's Third Stage has some juicy samples! How could I not listen to Great White's 'Rock Me' on a system featuring two EP800's??? And Tesla has always been a favorite 80's/90's band of mine (I can only imagine those twin guitars ripping up 'Modern Day Cowboy' turned up to +10... maybe I should bring a change of underware!).

These are just off the top of my head of course, I've yet to go through my 300 CD collection... perhaps I shouldn't and save Steve from having me take over his ENTIRE weekend!

He prefers beer brewed by blind monks and aged for 61 1/2 days, made at the foothills of the Himalayas. Hope that's helpfull

Really? Well how ironic, I just happen to have a case of that buried out in my garden as we speak (to aid in the fermentation of course), I'll wait until Thurday to unburry in in order to keep excess UV rays from spoiling the flavor of the malt!

Never though that would come in handy!

This will be a grand occasion to bring out the Blind Monk Malt !!

Indeed! After all, after drinking ourselves blind (how do you think the Monks got that way?) will only deepen our sense of sound... no?

Yes, when you lose your sight, it is well documented that your hearing becomes much more acute.

And it is also well documented that Adrian has very 'cute' hearing...

Micah, hearing your excitement for your audition, revs me up more for mine! Sorry to say, though that mine is day after tomorrow, so I do not get as long a build up. :o( I guess I'll manage OK though.

Anyway, congrats on having a generous soul here volunteer to let you listen. But beware, if he is a serious M80 fanboy and you as much as pause before believing them to be awesome, he'll start feedin' you the hard stuff, until you do. But the fanboy code (yes they have one) is clear that the copious alcholhol must stop when said auditionee says: "I looove yooou maaaan!"

Seriously, very cool!

Micah,

I hope you enjoy your audition. As been stated over and over again, Axiom speakers are very detailed. You’ll hear things you hadn’t heard before, including all the undesirable crap found on recordings that were not done very well. Make sure you take some disks that you know to be crap as well as a few others that are known to be good quality recordings. I have a few CD’s from the 80’s that sound like complete garbage. Cinderella’s greatest hits for one. Some good disks to bring: Pink Floyd DSOTM on SACD, the song Time. Time is my absolute favorite song for demos. It has everything from high treble to LFE and great mid range tight hitting drums. Alison Kraus and Union Station, New Favorite is another great CD for demo’s. It was recorded increadibly well and Alison Kraus's voice, well....I just like her. Green Day, American Idiot is another CD that was recorded very well. Hoobastank’s second CD is also very good. Sick Puppies, surprisingly enough for this type of music is also recorded very well.

If you give me a better idea of what type of music you like, I can recommend a few more CD’s. I have about 1100 now. Many different genres.

Well Steve has around 400 CD's, so I don't figure I'll need to really bring a whole lot. I like just about everything really, I love classical (Bethoven, Bach), classic rock (Stones, Pink Floyd, LZ, HUGE Elton John fan), 80's Rock (Great White, Tesla, Def Leppard) modern rock (Smashing Pumpkins, Nickel Back, Dave Matthews, Staind), hip hop (the bass tracks on stuff like 'The Cronic' or a lot of Tupak's stuff is pretty cool), grunge (Greenday, Pearl Jam, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, NIN) alternative (The Cure, Depeche Mode, The Mighty Mighty Bosstones), Jazz (well, I'm an incurable Neil Diamond fan... does that count?), country (Kenny Chesney, Tim McGraw, Garth Brooks)... but don't worry Steve, I'm NOT planning on bringing all of this over to sample.

On the agenda is some music, both stuff he thinks will show off the M80's I'm sure, as well as some of my stuff that I presume is well recorded stuff, but maybe I'll find out different... as well as some movies (exerps of course, we're not going to sit through 6 hours of movies, just the highlights). And we're going to squeeze this into a 3 hour window so that he can go on with his life as usuall (don't want to wear out my welcome).

It should be just the thing I need to settle my newfound nerves. I'll keep in mind his room will probably be MUCH more suited to his set-up, but I'll still have a great idea of what they 'can' sound like!

Ah, and where are you going for your audition?

Micah, don't take this the wrong way, but there is not a chance in hell the M80's would be shrill to customers at the volumes and in the setting you are talking about. You are describing the most non-critical of listening, background music. You could use Bose, or even the brightest Klipsch you could get your hands on, and at 80db no one would ever call it bright. You might have a serious echo problem in that room that will be noticed, but you are not pushing the speakers to a realm where these problems will arise – if they exist.

If you have are concerned about your enjoyment at normal critical-listening levels, then perhaps the M60s would be better for you. They are more laid back, from what I have read, but sound great according to comparisons to the 80s. I guess I'm just having trouble rectifying your heightened state of concern with the described intended use. I would say, for non-critical listening, it is damn hard to find a bad speaker at $1,000 a pair. It's like someone asking you if they are going to hate riding around the neighborhood on a motorbike you consider to be pretty ordinary, but has significant performance issues at the edge. If they are never getting anywhere near the performance edge, it won't matter. Same with speakers.

And I don't own Axiom fronts...this is just my experience with good to outstanding speakers over the last 15 years. You are in a safe place. But if bright concerns you (and in your room I can see why it could!), try the M60's first.

Finally, if you frame your own pics in the gallery, you can use them as absorbers/defusers. Just try to get them away from the wall a bit (a few inches) to add some space between the wall and the pic surface. Then put fiber board or other absorbing material behind the pic. You won't see it from the front, but you will get some acoustic benefit. You can alternate between dense material and loose to get diffraction where desired. I've done this in my room and it works ok. The surface will reflect more that a pure acoustic treatment, but yours is not an audio room so just look for benefits where you can get them. Glass on the front will bounce it all back. But, perhaps, put a tall plant in the corners, add some accent screens or seating to help break up the echo of the square room while staying the functional side of acoustic treatment. Every item you can put in there will help the echo chamber you are dealing with. And that echo will enhance brightness, so again, consider the M60s.

Best of luck to you.
P.S. '80's rock will also enhance brightness (screaming guitars and banging cymbals, etc.) Bring CDs you expect to use with clients.

Hello Micah,

The bands/composers that I would pick out of that list that generally have good recordings (not sure on the albums you own) is Bach, Beethoven, Pink Floyd, Dave Matthews, Smashing Pumpkins, Pearl Jam (Yield) is decent. I don't listen to country so I am not sure on those. If you want to know what compression will sound like on Axioms you can choose something like Metallica: Death Magnetic, Oasis: What’s The Story Morning Glory?, Red Hot Chili Peppers: Californication. The engineers and producers butchered those albums (noticeable distortion and digital clipping).

Thank you. I have had this debate with non-audio-concerned friends that say it sounds fine. I can't listen to RHCP except for Stadium Arcadiaum, which I love, the rest is horribly recorded. Guns & Roses Live is the worst I've heard. Play that and you find out what bright means.

Hmmm... it's strange that stuff recorded so recent was recorded poorly. I would have thought most of today's stuff would all be of good quality. I wonder why they settled for anything less than the best?

It's louder. That's the plain and simple truth.

Built for radio play, not close listening. To tie this off, it would sound fine played for your customers at low levels. But once you sat down and tried to really enjoy it - i.e., turned it up to 98db, you'd say it is really harsh. Wow, first time I un-hijacked a thread!

Read up about the loudness war.

You are no longer welcome on these forums.

My plan is to only have 2 CDs which I know are recorded very well, and 2 that I know are terrible recordings. The rest will be all your choice. I just want you to see how revealing the speakers really are, and that it should be a big consideration in your choice of speakers. Some of my favorite music from the 80s is basically unlistenable now due to how bad the recordings really are. But, I wanted monitor level speakers, ones that I felt truly reproduced the recorded sound without colorization.

As for the room characteristics, I feel they play almost as big a part (if not more) than the speakers themselves. The audition will be in my home theater which, although not perfect, is what I would consider an above average room for sound. The dimensions are 16x18.5x8.5, and the room is carpeted and has sound absorption panels on the walls and ceiling. I also have bass traps in the back corners. I would consider my room on the dead side because of all of the treatment, but that works for me since I enjoy my music at louder levels (90-93db). Keep in mind that a non-treated room will result in a "brighter" sound. I posted pix of the theater before the EP800s on the Axiom website:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showgallery&Number=206049

And, as far as the alcohol goes... I think we are set:

<---[frantically looking for cheap airfare online...]

Caution, watch for flying squirrel!!!

Oh, that's it... I'm crashin this party!!

Yeah, I think we're all coming over now!

Nice liquor collection you got going on there.
What is the green liquid on the lower shelf (Absinthe?). I'm a man of simple tastes, I will start off with some Ketel One neat please..

Cheers!

It's an old picture. It's Melon liquor. The Absinthe kit (with strainer) is now there on the top shelf (it was a gift).

Impressive! I am still having a tough time making out some of the bottles left to right on the top shelf. #3 Buffalo Trace?, #5??, #6 Mount Gay Rum??

I skipped around that other thread not able to bring myself to read through it all, but I did notice in how Bob justified that the M80s and Salks were in the same price range by comparing the cost of the veneer Salks to the real wood Vassallo M80s... The misinformation goes on...

ugh

The Vasallo M80 and the songtower are almost the same price are they not?

House,

Only 5 bottles on the top shelf in this pic.

#3 - Zaya Rum (all gone now!)
#4 - Personalized bottle of Makers Mark (can't open a bottle with my name on it)
#5 - Johnny Gold.

Opps, I was referring to the wrong shelf.

Is this thread still around, lol?

Even though Elvis has left the building!

I hate to see a thread turn cruel. This is not cool. Don't tease the poor guy! He is scared stiff that the M80s are too bright and shrill and harsh and scary and big and loud and... You are going to put him in a shockingly well setup room where the sound is surely first rate, ply him with top-shelf booze and 80's music and convince him this is what the M80s sound like. Then he is going to get his M80 and start a thread about how his M80s are shrill and don't get him drunk.

He should not be allowed in your room under any circumstances. He should be forced to listen to M80s in a square bunker like his room so he actually knows what to expect. He will never enjoy his M80s now...it will be a never ending search for sound like he heard that day in '09 when the m80s took him to a fairytale land.

I guess he could just buy an Absinthe kit to go along with the M80s, that might cure his problem, but not sure it will help his business prosper.

He can always come over to my place.

Exactly.

Just contacted Noreen....my speakers are ready for pickup!!

Tell us Adrian, what exactly does that have to do with this thread.??????????????????????????????????????????????






Oh, it is a thread about a system being shipped. I see your point. In that case, congratulations, I am very excited for you.

Sorry, didn't mean to de-re-derail the thread. Now....back to regular programming. Now where were we...can anyone recommend a decent bicycle tire? 700c?

Now that I've seen a picture of Steve's 'mini'(?) bar, I'm not sure we'll actually make it all the way to his HT room... he'll just have stumble in there himself, turn them up full blast and hope I can hear them while drinking myself into a coma!

(sorry Steve, perhaps you should meet me at the front door with a blind fold!)

Who knows you might not make it out alive with that collection of booze . He's got a lot of nice bottles kickin' around .

Yeah, and if he really has some Absinthe I'd be tempted... but since we're there to test out SPEAKERS I guess I'd better control myself.



They'd sound better with both of my ears actually attached to my head I suppose!

Hey, why not do some blind A/B testing while you're there. Seagrams vs Gibsons!!

My only experience with absinthe was with a home-made kind. It never turned green and it was fairly foul. What's good stuff supposed to taste like?

Ok for all those who got the joke in that last post, ignore the rest of this one (I hate explaining a joke, but I hate people not getting it even more)...

For the rest of you, Van Gogh was said to be in the depths of an Absinthe binge the night he cut his own ear off. But the Absinthe made today only has 10 parts per million of thujone (that's the stuff that gives you halucinations) in it... compared to the stuff they made back in his day that had more like 260 parts per million. So we may actually make it out of there with all our ears intact!

I've never tried it. It was given to me as a birthday gift last year and I still haven't opened it.

When the original poster no longer posts, is it really considered a thread-jack?

It's an off-jack.

Well since Bob stopped posting on it, it sort of ran away... which is to be expected I guess. He does still read it though, he's been PM'ing me (and told me I don't have to keep that a secret), and telling me about his progress with the M80's. I guess him not posting on this forum speaks for itself, and is his right if he so chooses. But after hooking up the EP500 (or was it the 350?) and the center channel he said he's found them to be closer to what he was hoping, just not 100% just yet (he's still tweaking).

Bob's an alright guy, he just didn't find the M80's to be quite what he was hoping for. Not for everybody, I think we can all agree on that. He just happens to fall in the percentile of Axiom customers who "don't quite love" as compared to those who "absolutely love" them.

He hasn't returned them yet though, that say's something I guess.

In addition to my last post, even Bob clarified in a PM to me that the M80's absolutely do not sound 'shrill'. He told me I would love the clarity and detail. So he isn't hating on them as some of you might expect.

I believe it's true as well, that our hearing goes through an adjustment period as well. When I first heard some Paradigm Studio 100s, I felt at first that they were not necessarily bright but I wasn't sure if I could handle the higher frequencies or not. I gave myself some time to get let my ears get accustomed to the music and then started to enjoy them. My guess is simply that I wasn't use to hearing higher freq so clearly before having listened to budget speakers for the most part where those highs were either not there, or were distorted.
For sure, you need some patience with any system to get the best out of it, as I'm sure I will find out soon enough too.

You know you make an excellent point here Adrian. I'm in the boat where I've never experienced truely forthright speakers in my home. Every speaker I've ever owned have been very colored, laid back, muddy, what ever you may want to call them. So I can definately see where, upon hearing the M80's or any truely high end speaker for the first time, I might feel the highs over power the rest of the music. I will try to keep in mind that what I'm hearing is exactly what the artist (or at least the guy behind the mixing table in the studio) intended for me to hear. And then go from there.

If I don't like what the artist intended for me to hear, then I guess I could always go into my EQ and try to tame that high end down. Not saying I'm anticipating that, just that it's an option if I do feel that way.

Posting by proxy. Who says Bob is gone.

Who is this guy "proxy"?

Absolutely. It has taken me 5 months to really get used to the elevated sq of my system and sort out what is in the recording and what is my sucky room. Now I wish I had the cash to really pursue room treatments.

I think that is true in a lot of cases. I am listening to the synth in ELP's Lucky Man as I type this and I just love the 'bite' that it has. It sounds very real to me. As I have written many times before, I love that live, front row sound.

Just think, if you really had cash you could just have some 'pro' come in and do all that for you the day your system arrived. But then where would all the fun be? If I had the most ideal, fantastic, bullet proof, can't be beat system ever made in my living room right now, then what would I have to look forward to? (besides years of great sounding music that is) I guess I've always been more of a tinkerer than anything. Just like my motorcycle, I bought it 4 years ago and have done just about everything I can think of doing to it. But now that I'm almost out of things to do to it, I'm ready to sell it and start from scratch on a new bike. For me it's always been the journey and not the destination that's been the most fulfulling.

And besides, who's to say this 'pro' who'd come in to tune your system would have the same taste in accoustics as you anyhow? You just can't get around personal tastes no matter how hard you try!

I don't think my landlord would appreciate a guy with a jackhammer showing up to 'fix' my room.

I am actually hoping that with realestate in Canada softening, I might be able to afford a house again in the near future. That may do a lot more for me than most room treatments in this concrete box.

Proxy? It may be Bob himself!

Yeah, and I would have got away with it if it wasn't for these BLASTED kids!!!

(blatant Scooby Doo rip off)

Just to let you know Micah, I'm going to grab your mask off when you walk through the door.

Drat, FOILED AGAIN!!!!

Sounds like a good deal to me. You can't dring worth a darn through a mask anyway.

A mask is OK...it filters out the coke, in a rye'n coke.

Give Bob a break. He's trying to work thru some settings and is giving them a chance. His room is part of the problem, but I'm sure it's not everything. Sometimes you just don't like something, no matter what you do.

This is true. Take Aretha Franklin... one of the most celebrated soul singers of her era. Rolling Stone ranked her #1 on it's list of 'Greatest Singers of All Time'. Me, I can't stand hearing her voice for longer than 5 seconds. I honestly don't see how ANYONE can!

You can please some people all of the time. And you can please all people some of the time. But you will never please all people all of the time.

Well, nobody could really stand her this past January 20th...

If you go to page 8 of the song speakers/m80's thread you see Bob has the M80's corner loaded with about 5-6 feet of separation in what looks like a very reflective room. That type of placement is a big problem which I bet is causing the majority of the issues he is having with the M80's. You put the song speakers in there and they won't sound ideal either.

Which is probably our fault to some degree. I think I remember that he was concerned about that. Among other things.

Dave. I'm not sure who you are upset with. For my part, I have no problem with how Bob feels about the M80s or most of what he has posted. The mask stuff is pure clowning around.

Not upset with anyone. Just letting everyone know he is trying a few things to make it better.

Also, the location is not exactly a corner as one speaker is near a wall and the other is pretty much open (and the center is below ear level). True that this will no doubt be an issue with any speaker.

Bob was warned about the highly reflective nature of his room in light of his fear of brightness. He posted 9000 times before he bought, yet I get the impression he did not really listen to some of the more technical posts. Hell, I knew his setup was going to bright. And as non-M80 owner, I can say with a good deal of confidence that Bob was treated as well as anyone until he got a little bent out of shape over some posts (it happens) and never really recovered. You see the same thing happening on the other forum where he was chastised for alleging he had not received a warm welcome. I'm sure he is a great guy, just comes across a bit...well, you can fill in the blank for yourself. I'm not trying to start a bash-Bob thread.

From the pics of his room he clearly has an option that would yield a much more favorable listening environment if he wishes to make the best out of any speakers he has.

I know I've come across as not being a fan of ol Bob but I do wish him the best of luck.

I brought a couple bottles back from Prague a few years ago. It took almost two years to finish them off. I didn’t care for it much (tasted like menthol flavored Listerine to me). I’d pour a shot for the more “daring” individuals at my parties. Whatever the heck is in it is for real. I’ve never had anything that would mess me up like it, but maybe some Uzzo I had in Turkey about twenty years ago.... Everyone else who tried it said the same thing the next time I’d see them.

Hey everyone, Bob/335 is online.

What a load of bunk! I probably should have had pictures sooner but I don't think I could have described my room any better. Yes I was informed that my room would probably need some room treatments like most everyone. It is also known that room treatments aren't the easiest to accomplish in a living room as opposed to a dedicated HT. I have seen quite a few pictures of similar rooms (except for the corner location. Actually there was one corner arrangement) without a whole bunch of room treatments.
No matter how much room treatment I can accomplish doesn't deny the fact that they were still bright in a room with ample amount of treament and better placement. Sure something like the Song Tower will sound brighter in my room than the room I auditioned them in but I would think in ratio to how the M80's performed in both rooms. So no matter how you slice it the ST's were not as bright and yet more revealing and detailed. Seems like an oxymoron to me.

Being a "non-M80 owner" has nothing to do with any confidence you may have. I may have got bent over a few posts but I DID recover and more than once. Problem was that everytime I came back someone here didn't let go and continued badgering. I was sincere in seeking help. Sorry that my questioning didn't live up to certain people's pre-requisites for asking questions. This is also my 503 post and saying something like 9000 times before I bought just shows more of where your head is at. AND the majority of my posts were after my purchase. I think you come across a bit.... well you fill in the blank.

My interaction at another forum is none of your business but to set the record straight, one of the first replys was for me to take my question to another forum because it was out of place. I placed the question wxactly where I wanted it and took exception to that poster. Another poster couldn't see where I was coming from and later apologized to me for his post as well as the one who didn't welcome my question there. Even without the PM's that transpired it is relatively clear what happened if you read everything in context.

I have not entirely given up on the Axioms yet although I have pretty much given up on this forum. Can't tell you how diappointed I am in all of this. I initially thought I would have some long time friends here and was excited to be part of this here. Hope you guys continue to enjoy your speakers.

Just excited to see you back man. Not sure of the status of your Axiom purchase, but hope you give yourself a chance with a variety of music to make a decision..

Bob, were the Salks you heard, two way or three way speakers?

I stand corrected. Bob did not post 9000 times and he was never bent out of shape. I also stand corrected in saying "I'm sure he is a great guy". I'll stand pat on the blank for now.

Hey Bob,

Have you asked Axiom to send you some resistors for your M80's? People have done this in the past.

Charles, who is pat?

Bob, I don't really see how Salk speakers compare $$ to Axioms...they appear to me to be considerably more expensive. If you are looking at a speaker such as these Salks, you owe it to yourself to look at Monitor Audios as they are far less $$ than those Salks. It looks like the Salks you were listening to were 2-ways which could explain why you thought they sounded warmer. Just a thought. Maybe that is the sound you prefer.

Yes. Welcome back.



No, Bob. That's how YOU slice it. Which is fine, but it would be more accurate and far more congenial to say "I preferred the Song Towers".



You can do whatever you want (it's a free country) but you are accountable for your public actions.



I'm calling bullsh!t, Bob. If you were "over" anything, you wouldn't have come back with guns blazing again.



wxactly. Confrontations are always somebody else's fault. You are excellent at "taking exception".



Do you even know what PM stands for?



Not sure who this is directed to, but since English uses "you" as both singular and plural, I'll just go ahead and say I have already filled in the blank.



Ditto.

You know Pat, the guy on the thread that holds all my opinions that I think don't need to be put in a forum about speakers.

Someone buy that squirrel a beer for his quick reply finger. I love irony! And Bob, well...take care Bob.

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it" -
-- Charles swindoll

Looks like a lot of bad reactions all around (including me).

Er....


So mdrew, you say that Absinthe really kicked your ass eh?

Why must you engage those who “badger” you. It’s an internet forum, just ignore them/us. I’ve noticed that you seem to get “bent” in every forum I’ve seen you post in so either every place has people who badger you or maybe it‘s your snarky attitude…the gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.

And Bob, for the record it wasn’t just people in other forums who told you to listen to speakers before buying, some people here did.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthre...true#Post238167



Who else saw this this train wreck coming a mile away?

I probably still have that bottle of Everclear that in younger days I would offer the tough guy's to check out. One party, my room mates and I set a table near the front door where I sat with the er, beverage. I told most everyone who came thru the front door that they needed to take one shot as everyone else had (total BS ;o). Most called us on the BS. We really had fun when maybe the only one to take up the challenge was a friend we all knew who's ego held himself as being tough and could handle anything. He slammed down the shot of Everclear. We watched with bated breath as his face tightened, his eyes started to water and his face turn red. He'd be damned if he was going to show weekness! LOL We all knew, hell was being paid down his throat etc. Ah, fond memories of my younger life!

Wow, surprise Everclear! With friends like that...
I was told Grappa was really smooth. That was not the case.

Gee and I here I thought beer lovers believed in redemption, no such luck, eh! God might love you but later on you're on your own.

Just kidding Tom, couldn't resist pointing out the incongruity, I suppose that's tough love, no?

Wow. Surprised you're back. Your experience here at the Axiom forum has to do with YOU, not the people here. Here's exactly why you don't like it here, Bob:

A long time forum member FINALLY pointed out to you in a light-hearted way that ya just might stressing out a little too much about your purchase. It was obvious to me and other regular visitors here.

Your response:


...and it was off to the races ever since. You wouldn't admit it at first (although you did later on another forum), and you didn't like being called out on it. That's all. That's it. You've had an indignant approach here ever since. You say you've had 'recoveries'. Hmm.. here's the first thing you posted after you received your speakers:



Some recovery. We're supposed to accept you with open arms at this point?? Lots more examples of this sort of back off/shoot barbs thing you've done here. I'm sure you're a good guy, but you have issues with social networking on the net. There's STILL an outpouring of helpful posts to you despite your 'interesting' presence here. That's why this is a great place. I'll likely be visiting here daily long after you've moved on.

I am glad though that you did go through with trying the Axioms, although I believe your opinion of them was affected by your perception of this forum. I do hope you find speakers that you'll be happy with.

This thread has come to an ignominious end. Its time to let it die.

Maybe we can start a new thread on the merrits of Grappa vs Everclear in the Watercooler?

I can end that thread now: Grappa = evil. Itallian my ass. It's just Everclear in a pretty bottle.

Now we can end this thread.

This thread still needs a picture of an actual train wreck . Then it can end...

Awesome.

I almost jumped out of my seat, sooooooooooooo funny . Look at the trains facial expression....lol.

You beat me to the punch this time Charles. Cool cause I was going to post the same picture.

Ha ha. Google Image Search to the rescue.

Would it be considered piling on to ask the systems administrator to make that picture Bob’s avatar?

Another neat trick a buddy of mine who was getting kicked out of the Corps did was to put 6 hits of acid in the battalion officers coffee mess.

"Allegedly", you forgot to say allegedly he sent his superiors on a mind trip Juan Valdez never envisioned.

Wow, that would be a long day at the office.

True as far as the Man is concerned it’s alleged, but there may have been witnesses/accomplices who can vouch for him.



They figured out what was happening pretty fast. Says something about what Marine Corps officers were doing in their spare time in the early 80s.

This thread will never die, let's just face the facts right now. Instead of fighting it, let's just turn it into it's own forum. All topics welcome, it'll just be a free for all!






There have only been like 15 different topics brought up in here already anyhow

Aaaooohhhhh?

I don't mean to pry, but you don't by any chance happen to have six fingers on your right hand?

Do you always hijack threads this way?

There have been more hijackers in this thread than in all of the Middle East.

You're new here, aren't you?

Well, dispite my 'Veteran' status that would suggest otherwise... yes.

This thread is better than any soap opera ever conceived. It's got drama, comedy, and because it's Axiom it's also got a great beat you can dance to.

This is the thread that never ends... Yes it goes on and on my friends.

And every once in a while a drunken drinking squirrel drops by for a cameo.

Welcome my friends to the thread that never ends,
So glad you could attend,
Post inside,
Post inside....

Oooh! Havn't given that one a spin in a while.

Another ELP classic!!...err, with a slight twist on the lyrics.

But does it have "danceable cables"?

Check!

The Never Ending Story, classic...

This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started writing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue writing it forever just because... This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started writing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue writing it forever just because... This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started writing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue writing it forever just because... This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started writing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue writing it forever just because...

When will it end?


I don't know.

I'm still waiting for generously proportioned woman to intone.

You asked for it:

Fred wins this one!

It was until you posted that picture!

Swedish Bikini team, at an IPSC match a few years ago.

That should be enough to find the rest of the pictures.

I picked up my speakers yesterday and will have a lot of setting up to do as well as moving furniture around, so I may be a while getting back to the forum re first impression ect. I probably need to get an SPL metre too.

Adrian, please start a new thread, we beg you!!!!!!!!

paul

That's a good idea....

Can we keep the photo of the Swedish Bikini Team?

I think the one on the right likes you...

I was hoping the one on the left did.... but I'll settle.

The third one from the left has had three kids and enjoys cooking breakfast.

Apparently she likes her eggs fertilized.

They say "NO" means "YES".....errr....what do they say "MAYBE" means?

"Maybe" also means "Yes". I know these things.

I thought Maybe meant "Hurry UP"?