Santa Came and my Initial Impressions...

Posted by: ghost271

Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/23/09 11:03 PM

So my speakers arrived today and like a kid on Christmas morning I rushed to the door. All the boxes looked good until the last one off the truck. It had two large holes in it on one side. The driver tried to pass it off as 'nothing' but I insisted on him marking it down as damaged. I brought them into the garage and then unpacked them in the HT room. I opened the damaged box first with much hesitation on what I'd find. There was no physical damage that I noticed. I took the front grill off I noticed what looked like a 'water stain' on the left and right side of the bottom woofer. I called Axiom and Brent is sending me a new one as we speak.
All the other speakers were in pristine shape and I quickly hooked up my front three. I need to buy a drill and level tomorrow to mount the QS8s. The first BR I threw in was 'Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds-Live at Radio City'. No word of a lie, it sent chills down my back and a few times I was almost moved to tears. I was VERY impressed. Next I threw in 'Transformers'. The effects flowed from one side to the next seamlessly.
I put a few CDs in and ran them 'Direct'. The M60s sang like a smooth songbird on a summer morning. NOT bright at all !

Dialogue was clear and crisp but I have to adjust the settings as the M60s were over taking the 150 during intense action scenes.
I ran the auto setup calibration on my Yamaha and it had the M60s set to Large with a crossover at 120. I changed the speakers to small and the crossover to 80. Now I just have to tweak my sub. I find them to be beautifully clear with tight bass, a vibrant midrange, and a crisp smooth high end.
The M60s remind me of the higher end Energy speakers, but more refined. They do not have the huge engulfing soundstage that my previous Klipsch RF82s had. However. That being said, once my speakers are worn in a bit and I can raise the volume to refference levels, I'm sure the sound stage will increase. Also the M60s are not as fatiguing as my Klipsch were at higher volumes.

I am looking forward to spending more time with these, but for now I cant see myself sending these things back !

Good job Axiom !


Joel
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/23/09 11:29 PM


Don't forget that they need time for the break-in. Usually it's a minimum of 48h, it did a difference on mine.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/23/09 11:31 PM

Very good, Joel. Yes, you're correct that a volume increase will increase the apparent soundstage. This factor is sometimes confused with being inherently related to the amplifier or other electronics in use, which can have no effect on soundstage unless special processing designed for that purpose has been selected by the user. One caution is that in consideration for your hearing you should be careful in playing at very high levels for more than very brief periods.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 01:00 AM

Bah... Speaker "break-in" is a myth... It is more of your ears and brain breaking in to the speakers than anything magically changing with the speakers. Proven time and time again, but still a lot of people think that it exists...

As with any setup, there will be tweaking and tuning. Your room configuration and variables will prove to change things as much as the speakers themselves until it is "tamed"... There are all sorts of benefits to that, but for now, just enjoy the quick and easy tweaks that you can do with your receiver and enjoy your new purchase. They are great speakers and you made a great choice...
Posted by: davekro

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 01:55 AM

Congratulations Joel! Your excitement is contagious. Mine are due in 2-3 weeks. I am starting to get itchy now! ;o)

Glad you are pleased. Keep us up on your set up process as you adjust things.
Posted by: ghost271

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 02:14 AM

I also wanted to say that in comparison to the the PSB speakers that I heard, I'd say that these M60s are on par with the Imagines that I had fallen in love with. They were $600 more as well. Dave I have no doubt you'll love these speakers. They are a very neutral sounding speaker and are not bright at all. My Klipschs were bright, but to my ears these are not. I just upped my center output and sounded much better while viewing 'Bangkok Dangerous'.
Posted by: RickF

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 04:45 AM

If you look for the serial number sticker affixed to the back of each speaker the fine print will tell you that upon setup, pictures of system must be posted on the Axiom Forum or BrenR will come after you like a spider monkey hopped up on Mountain Dew.

Congrats on the new digs.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 06:09 AM

Rick-
That there's funny... I don't care who you are. \:\)

The Yamaha set the center as "Large" but gave it a 120Hz crossover? That doesn't really make sense!

Glad you're lovin' the speakers but...what? No mention of that new speaker smell?
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 08:35 AM

Glad you like your new speakers, and as Nick mentioned there is no speaker breakin, however, it may take a little time for your brain to become used to the new sound.
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 09:24 AM

 Originally Posted By: sirquack
Glad you like your new speakers, and as Nick mentioned there is no speaker breakin,

It depends if he has any kids! \:\)
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 09:52 AM

congrats!
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 11:06 AM

 Originally Posted By: ghost271
I also wanted to say that in comparison to the the PSB speakers that I heard, I'd say that these M60s are on par with the Imagines that I had fallen in love with. They were $600 more as well.

That's good information to have. The Imagine series is getting good press and people are constantly looking for comparisons since Axiom is not available for "stop by and listen" sessions. PSB is not exactly on every corner, but at least some people will have access to them and can put the Axioms in that sound group. Enjoy, and let us know as your ears break in.

P.S. From the PSB website:
 Originally Posted By: PSB
"Do your speakers require a "burn in" time? No, our PSB speakers will sound great straight out of the box."
I would think that applies to all speakers then. (Flat Earthers rejoice!)

And PSB also declares:
 Quote:
What types of cables or interconnects do you recommend?
PSB Speakers does not endorse any particular brand of cables. We usually use 14-gauge wire when testing speakers. Wire does affect sound and the best way to test this is to find an audio/video dealer who specializes in wire and ask for samples of different brands. We do recommend the following gauge of standard two-conductor wire for wiring distances:
Less than 25': 18 gauge
25-50': 16 gauge
50-100': 14 gauge
over 100': 12 gauge
If you prefer, you can use heavier (lower gauge) wire.


(Oh, Flat Earthers revolt!)


Posted by: ghost271

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 11:22 AM

Thanks guys. Here is a couple pics of whats up now. I need a drill, stud finder and level to mount theQS8s. Hopefully get that done sooner than later. But so far they sound fantastic !


Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 11:33 AM

Welcome to the M60 posse!

Thanks for the pictures. You might try to get a bit of breathing room both behind and next to the mains. I recognize that the screen does not give you much flexibility, but you are undoubtedly getting some undesirable early reflections off the side walls. Two other things you might try to tweak the sound a little bit - toe-in the speakers a few degrees (instead of having them point straight-ahead) and install some sound-absorbing panels or material on the walls next to them.

Nice setup!
Posted by: ghost271

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 11:39 AM

Thanks Tom.
The speakers are toed in a bit at the moment. The rear ports are 14" from the rear wall. There is about a 5" ledge underneath the screen. And the right speaker is only 7" from the wall. My problem lies in seating positioning. The left speaker cant really come out more because it will block LOS to the person sitting in the left seat.

I was thinking about doing black velvet all around the screen and those side walls to cut reflective light. Would that dampen the sound enough to make a difference ?
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 11:43 AM

That Drunk Squirrel is smarter than he looks! He took the words right out of my mouth. That instantaneous reflection coming from those very near walls will blur your imaging. Toe in will delay it a bit, but for that width room you need to pad the area in front of the speakers. I have a similar problem in my room and taming that first reflection had a huge impact on the image. (Then again, it could be my speaker wire. )
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 12:48 PM

In the words of Albert Collins...

I ain't drunk. I'm just drinkin'.

ghost, it sounds like you have plenty of space behind the speakers (which was not evident to me from the pictures, because squirrels have poor depth-of-field perception in two-dimensions).

Honestly, I don't know if just some fabric on the wall will be "effective" or not. There are other folks around here who are more knowledgeable about room treatment implementation than I am.

I'm not sure which of our friends first posted the link to ATS Acoustics, but they seem to have the goods.
Posted by: davidsch

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 01:03 PM

 Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
In the words of Albert Collins...

I ain't drunk. I'm just drinkin'.

ghost, it sounds like you have plenty of space behind the speakers (which was not evident to me from the pictures, because squirrels have poor depth-of-field perception in two-dimensions).

Honestly, I don't know if just some fabric on the wall will be "effective" or not. There are other folks around here who are more knowledgeable about room treatment implementation than I am.

I'm not sure which of our friends first posted the link to ATS Acoustics, but they seem to have the goods.


Tom - I posted the link but I have not used the company. Their 2 foot by 4 foot panels at 4 inches thick for $55 looks pretty tempting. I would have to rearrange the furniture in my room though to treat the first reflection points and I am not sure that I can come up with a workable solution. I agree that it should be considered by the OP though as I am sure that it would help the reflections.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 02:00 PM

Thanks, David. I am very intrigued by that vendor's ability to provide those products. I'd think that even a DIY 1" OC703 panel would help ghost since we're not talking about bass traps. But - again - I'm not a good student in this area.
Posted by: davekro

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 02:14 PM

 Originally Posted By: ghost271
My Klipschs were bright, but to my ears these are not.


Joel,
I had Klipsch Cornwalls for 26 years. I was not familiar with bright warm, etc, etc. So to me the 80's and 60's I heard over at Ken and Adam's respectively, did not sound bright to MY ears either. ;\) As they say, it all depends on how your relatives are (or something like that). \:D
Posted by: fredk

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 02:15 PM

 Quote:
That Drunk Squirrel is smarter than he looks!

Hey, I saw that movie! Oh wait, that was a drunk monk.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 02:17 PM

My DIY absorbers were a weak effort (i.e., not terribly absorbent) and still worked well at the first reflection. From the web description, I think the 2" would work as well as the 4" for you primary goal here, which is to deaden the reflection over 500hz. And the 2" would be much easier to place.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 02:21 PM

 Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
In the words of Albert Collins...
I ain't drunk. I'm just drinkin'.


Yeah, well I took your advice Sir Squirrel-a-lot and tried this line of argument. Turns out the State Trooper had not read Mr. Collins so he told me to tell it to the judge. Then, when I rightfully blamed the drunk squirrel, they brought me a special jacket and some "sleepy medicine". Good news is that the acoustics of my padded cell are fantastic. Now I just got to get a radio in here.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 02:27 PM

Congrats on the purchase Joel, the M60s are a great speaker. Its nice to hear that the M60 is on par with the Imagine series.

Thin fabric will not do much for you acoustically. From (not so good) memory, 2" acoustic pannels will start to make a difference above 500Hz or so and 4" panels will reach down to around 100Hz. leaving a space up to the thickness of the pannel behind the pannel will increase its effectiveness.

I would not do any treatments until you have your system set up and have listened to it for a while. It took me 2-3 months to be able to effectively separate out room effects from what the speaker was producing. A lot of rooms get some absorbtion and diffusion from furniture, sheetrock wall, curtains etc so don't automatically assume you need to treat the room a lot.

It does look like you have quite a bit of bare wall though.

FWIW, a thick rug on the floor between your seating and the speakers will also help tame a lively room.

I am looking forward to your first post after you get the surrounds set up. \:\)
Posted by: fredk

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 02:29 PM

\:D
 Quote:
Now I just got to get a radio in here.

They probably have a Bose radio somwhere in the place they could set up for you. ;\)
Posted by: davekro

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 02:45 PM

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
No mention of that new speaker smell?


A smell out of new speakers is baaaaad. Smoke associated with said smell, is a tad worse. ;\)
Posted by: davekro

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 02:54 PM

 Originally Posted By: Zimm

 Quote:
And PSB also declares:

What types of cables or interconnects do you recommend?
PSB Speakers does not endorse any particular brand of cables. We usually use 14-gauge wire when testing speakers. Wire does affect sound and the best way to test this is to find an audio/video dealer who specializes in wire and ask for samples of different brands. We do recommend the following gauge of standard two-conductor wire for wiring distances:
Less than 25': 18 gauge
25-50': 16 gauge
50-100': 14 gauge
over 100': 12 gauge
If you prefer, you can use heavier (lower gauge) wire.


(Oh, Flat Earthers revolt!)





Zimm, always good to hear facts. But as you are well aware, Krypton impregnated wire supporters never let the facts get in the way of a successful marketing campaign! ;\)
Posted by: ghost271

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 02:56 PM

Im not familiar with the Cornwalls but from what others were saying on the Klipsch forums was that many older owners didnt like the sound of the newwer speakers. It may very well be that due to my room accustics it came across as such. I loved my Klipsch setup but the whole buying process was a nightmare dealing with the big box stores. They werent great for music but were amazing for movies. I bet those horns were bouncing sound all over my room. The Axioms seem great for both movies and music.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 02:57 PM

 Originally Posted By: fredk
\:D
 Quote:
Now I just got to get a radio in here.


They probably have a Bose radio somwhere in the place they could set up for you. ;\)


They tell me the cubes are sooooo cute, and the squirrel won't come near them.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 05:47 PM

 Originally Posted By: Zimm
My DIY absorbers were a weak effort (i.e., not terribly absorbent)


You know that they're not to replace diapers, right?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 06:37 PM


And PSB also declares:
 Quote:
What types of cables or interconnects do you recommend?
PSB Speakers does not endorse any particular brand of cables. We usually use 14-gauge wire when testing speakers. Wire does affect sound and the best way to test this is to find an audio/video dealer who specializes in wire and ask for samples of different brands. We do recommend the following gauge of standard two-conductor wire for wiring distances:
Less than 25': 18 gauge
25-50': 16 gauge
50-100': 14 gauge
over 100': 12 gauge
If you prefer, you can use heavier (lower gauge) wire.


(Oh, Flat Earthers revolt!)



[/quote]

They are just stating the point we all make, wire only makes a difference due to length of run nothing more.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 07:52 PM

 Originally Posted By: davekro

Zimm, always good to hear facts. But as you are well aware, Krypton impregnated wire supporters never let the facts get in the way of a successful marketing campaign! ;\)


Well, PSB does not, to my knowledge, make or sell speaker wire. Nor do they recommend a company or type of wire. They say bi-wiring won't help, and speaker break-in is a myth. So if it is a marketing campaign somebody should get their money back. They aint sellen it too well.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 07:57 PM

 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson

You know that they're not to replace diapers, right?


Of course they are not there to replace diapers. They are there in case you can't make it and forgot your diapers. That fiber weave will really soak up a spill.
Posted by: davekro

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/24/09 11:43 PM

 Originally Posted By: Zimm

Well, PSB does not, to my knowledge, make or sell speaker wire. Nor do they recommend a company or type of wire. They say bi-wiring won't help, and speaker break-in is a myth. So if it is a marketing campaign somebody should get their money back. They aint sellen it too well.


Zimm, I was speaking of the wiremites, not PSB.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/25/09 11:42 AM

Got it. I'm slow.
Posted by: davekro

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/25/09 01:38 PM

Zimm, welcome to the club.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/25/09 06:59 PM

What club?
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/25/09 07:01 PM

..... oh, got it now.
Posted by: davekro

Re: Santa Came and my Initial Impressions... - 03/25/09 08:03 PM

Cam,
That makes you a member, dude! ;\)

But then, as Groucho said: "I'd never join a club that would have me as a member. Now whats the secret woid?"