I have a Denon 3806. Considering adding a 200W amplifier to optimize the power of my Axiom speakers. Most people assure me that this will give me the best clarity possible. Wondering if I should just spend the money for a more powerful receiver instead? The cheapest 7 channel 200W amplifier I have found is an Adcom at $3000. I dont know anything about Adcom and have little experience with Amps...

Thoughts?

Aaron

I would simply get a better amp and for $3000 you could almost buy Axiom's 8 channel A1400, it is a beast and sounds incredible. BTW which speakers are you running?

If you are looking to spend $3000, you should seriously consider the Axiom 8 channel amp.

running 2 w22 1 w250 4qs8 1ep350

I really dont want to spend as much as $3000 that is just what i have found amps with the 200w capability for 7 channels. If you know of a product that will do for less that would be great.

The Outlaw 7700 is 200W by 7, $2150.

Actually if you don't want/need the balanced inputs the 7200 is even less.

Now your talkin. Thats a lot of savings. I have no experience with Amps... I assume the balanced inputs you metion are something i can adjust from the reciever?

Normally an amplifier is fed a signal which moves from positive to negative in reference to the ground following the waveform which it is to reproduce. The ground is shared with the shield. This is called single-ended.

Some receivers (mostly pre-amp/processors, which do not have inbuilt amps) have balanced or differential outputs. A differential signal has two parts one which matches the above, the other one is the same signal but inverted. There's also a ground wire separate from the shield. The wires are wound or braided closely together. The amplifier is driven by the difference between the normal and inverted signals. The idea being that any outside electrical influence will act equally on both wires. So the difference between them doesn't change just their offsets.

Most consumer oriented gear will not have balanced outputs. Additionally the advantage of using differential signaling over short distances (like if your receiver and amp are next to each other) is minuscule. Long runs which may end up near power feeds is where the benefit starts to show.

If you don't think you're ever going to get a stand alone pre-amp/processor instead of a receiver, and you don't plan to locate your amp across the room. A single-ended amp is perfectly suited. But since amps are an investment which you'll probably keep over many receiver or pre-amp upgrades, you may wish to lay out the little extra for one with balanced inputs for future proofing.

Your call.

Wow! I really need to read up on this stuff. I am pretty lost. best I can get out of that is I know my amp and receiver will be in the same location so that leads me toward a single ended amp. Other than giving me more set up options in the future will i notice a real sound difference with the balanced inputs?

Unless you believe you have a golden ear, then no, you shouldn't notice a difference.

This was recently covered by Alan in his "Audiolofft":
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=261042

Even if you do end up with something with only balanced outputs, it is possible to turn a balanced out into a single-ended in with a simple cable. But the other way around is much more difficult.

Thanks, For me simple is better and no golden ear here.

Aaron, the people who would "assure" you of such a thing appear to know little of the facts of audio technology. Your 3806 has a quite powerful amplifier and has more than enough maximum power capacity for the vast majority of home uses. A 200 watt amplifier might increase the level at which a brief split-second peak could be played by about 2dB(e.g., 108dB, rather than 106dB), a result of little significance which in no way would "optimize" the performance of your speakers.

The "clarity" which you mentioned will be determined by the program material, the speakers and the listening room, not by adding unused maximum power capacity. Use your money for something that'll make an actual difference.

I don't see why you think you need more power, it is not like you have m80's or anything that can play to concert levels, he he. Really, your 3806 should be more than enough, why are you condidering that you need more power, the difference between a 100watt receiver and a 200 watt receiver is 3dB, which is barely noticable.

Knowing you are running the W22's I think I am less likely to recommend a new amp for you. I did hear a different sound when I hooked up my M22's while using the A1400 but it wasn't as much of a difference, the highs did sound better and more spatial but to me it wasn't worth the upgrade, now for the M80s I can't wait to buy my seperate amp. Maybe spend your money on a second subwoofer

I concur. I am a 'pro-amp' guy myself when it comes to big speakers in big rooms. However, in a fairly reasonable sized room, the M22's should play 'optimally' while utilizing just the Denon. As you've said, you don't have 'golden ears'. Therefore, I highly doubt you would notice any difference at all besides the hit to your wallet in buying an amp.

+1. While I think more power does pay some dividends in certain respect, I don't think you will see it in your setup. At most, get a two channel amp and let the 3806 run chan 3-7. That will free up the power of the 3806 for those chns so you will not have to worry about inadequate power reserves on 3-7 - and 1-2 are covered by the stereo amp.

For $2K, I'd look to bigger speakers, a bigger sub, and room treatment long before adding more power. My dramatic increase in power only shows in high volume critical listening - a guilty pleasure many don't have the ability to enjoy, so consider your needs before dropping $3K.

Hello aspicer. You definitely do NOT need a 200 watt per channel amp to drive a pair of fairly efficient M22s. At normal listening levels your Denon's amplifier section is ticking over at less than 3 watts per channel. If you push the volume of our your M22s, to antisocial levels, your Denon might be asked to produce 10-20 watts per channel.

What I figure you hope to accomplish with a new amp or receiver is better sound quality. Improvements to sound quality from efficient speakers which present an easy load to an amplifier is rarely achieved by means of more watts per channel.

Your Denon is a high quality piece of audio gear. You my friend have upgradeitis. You want something more but you don't know what it is.

Welcome.

A disease that strikes at any time and seems to have no immunization for, unless you are JohnK.

Yes, Jay; as I've reported previously, I had upgradeitis as a child and apparently developed an immunity.

Well, watch out for the new swine strain. It'll make you dip into your piggy bank.

JohnK as a child: "Mommy, I know I have lots of red Lego's, but I think the white ones might be stronger. No.... I don't have proof, I just believe they will be. Can't that be enough?"

Announcer: "In his later years, his own double-blind Lego testing proved otherwise, and an epiphany was had."

I thought the thing about red Legos is that you were supposed to eat them last.

Wow, I really dated myself with that one.

LOL! I like that one, Mark!

LOL Good one!

Genrally I don't do 1 liners or comments that don't add to the discussion, but that was worth it!

snazzed

But if you did do one liners, and went on to become famous for them, it might inspire a new expression for the masses from your handle.
"You got Snazzed!!!"

Oops Sorry, I didn't add to the discussion. Ummmmm. Amps are good!

Ok finally got a chance to catch up on all the replys to my post here. Thanks to everyone for all the input. Seems as if I do have "upgradeitis". Do they make any creams or anything for that? It just wont go away! I dont really want to change the W's that I have as i like the look and expect they are of the highest quality for on wall. I have just upgraded from QS4 to QS8 and from the EP175 to the 350. I hope to get better performance due to those changes. I am however surprised to hear that most say an amp wont make enough difference. I know when i have added amps to car audio systems in the past the difference was enormous. I assumed it would be the same here.

Car audio - small space, very easy to make changes and hear a difference, Home audio - much larger space, not so easy to make changes and hear a difference, the wattage required to really hear differences is enormous. Having said that, I ran Axiom's A1400 with my 3808 as the pre/pro and could hear a difference right away, more bass, highs were cleaner, crisper, will all outboard amps add this much; I don't know.

Well since you have pretty much the same receiver as I do just 2 years newer then I have to beleive that adding the A1400 or similar will make a difference. It may also help me to have someone who really knows what they are doing set up the system. Thinking of hiring a consultant for that. Reading the Denon guide and trying to actually put what i am reading into action is tough for a beginner like me. Plus my patience wears thin very quickly.

Thanks