I'm trying to make up my mind on a 5.1 setup. I had been looking at M60's/Q8's/VP150/350 sub for my 15.5x20' basement theater. I would drive that system with a Onkyo NR1007 (maybe 3007). But looking at just a little more money for the M80's has me thinking. It seems some people think the Onkyo would not be a good choice for 4 ohm speakers. The manual says it can, but says not to do it for long times at loud volumes.

My dad had a patched up system with several different speakers, and I'm quite sure he never really set the amp up right, but every time a movie got loud (explosions, etc) the protection circuitry on the amp would kick in and kill the sound. I don't want that.

I can stick with the current setup, I think it would be plenty for my room, but there's always the upgrade itch too, and maybe a little more up front would go a long way, or maybe not.

What do you guys think?

With those latest models by Onkyo, you most likely will have no problems driving the m80's. I've always owned Denon, so maybe some of the Onkyo owners will chime in...

I will be purchasing the Onkyo TX-NR807 receiver and I have written assurances from the reseller that it will drive 4ohm with no issues at all at reference levels for extended period of times. I told him I needed the receiver to play loud for more than 3 hours continuous without breaking a sweat.. he told me this receiver is fully capable of meeting my requirements.

I hope the same can be said about the 805 which I will be trying with the M80's. If it does trip the protection circuitry, I will then look at adding an amp.

Onkyo's are good amps and you will have the option of adding an outboard amp as those models have preamp outputs, so no problems with buying either amp regardless of potential 4ohm problems.

The 805 is a tank. One of the best model they ever made at that price range. The 806 was .. not so good.. somewhat regarded as a "flop" by those who owned both models. The 807 is like the 805 only newer and more power.

I'm looking forward to setting up the 807 with the Epic 80 - 500 system for my cousin in mid November.. I will take pictures as we build of course

15x20 is not that big a room. I expect any of those Onkyo's will work fine. I drove my M80s to very loud levels with a 90wpc budget Sherwood receiver [until it got fried by ligtning] and had no trouble getting to loud levels.

Don't the Onkyo's have a bad rap of running hot? If they do,
wouldn't the M80 push it a little harder ?

I can't see them running any hotter than an H/K, I've had both and never had a problem with either whenever you darn near couldn't put your hand on top of the receiver. The H/K I now have runs hotter while on and not playing than does our Rotel RB-1080 after running several hours.

I've never owned an Onkyo before but they were one of the brands I researched along with H/K and Denon when I was looking for an AVR. The Onkyo heat thing is pretty common on the 'net and concerned me somewhat, so it ended up being between the H/K and the Denon, which I settled on in the end(2809).

Last August I sold my old-trusty HK AVR520 and I don't recall that one running hot at all, warm but not hot. When I upgraded my AVR I had Denon, Yahama, HK and Pioneer in mind... I ended
up with the Pionner SC-07. Can't go wrong with the Elite line
from Pioneer.

Let me say that many will exlaim, "you can reach very loud levels with you AVR"... and while this is absolutely true, I'll throw in my two cents and say that while my Denon did reach LOUD levels of volume, it sounded strained above 0 on the dial. The Emotiva amp I have running my M80's play loud 'better' IMO. For starters they play louder now at -10 then the Denon ever played them at full blast (+12). And when the dial reached +5 and above with the Denon in charge, I always got the distinct impression something was about to break. Nothing ever did mind you, but it just sounded like I was pushing it beyond it's limits.

Keep in mind I have 11,000 cubic feet to fill, so you may never even be able to reach -10 on the dial in your room for all we know. So by all means if you want to try out the M80's I would give the Onkyo the bennefit of the doubt until it proves to be otherwise unable to accomplish your goals for it. Then you could look into outboard amps to run things.

Denon 2310 receiver. I think the loudest i've ever gone on it was -10 and everything was good. Never had the need to go over
-10.

Micah. I am in the 'an AVR will do fine' club, but I do not disagree with you. Its all about how much space you have to fill and how far away you listen from.

1,700 cu.ft = any avr will do fine
11,000 cu.ft. = small cavern that needs external amplification.

I suspect even Johnk would agree.

I own an Onkyo 797 and never had any problems running 4 ohms speakers in the past, the last pair being tested were Kefs.

However, i bought a used Anthem amp, MCA30, for $650. You can get the MCA2 or MCA20s for even less, again on the used market.

Nope.

You could have at least put a smiley after that one John!

Nope.

We need a smiley that eats popcorn.

I thought that was Mark.

Thanks for the replies, although I'm a bit lost now...

I've been mulling over this- I wonder if I would be better off putting the extra money into a bigger sub (ie. DSP 500) instead of more money into the M80's. The M60-500 package looks pretty sweet to me at this point.

Decisions, decisions...

Either choice will be an excellent setup, you can't lose.

I think you will be happy either way.

I knew you would come through with that Rick.

By the way, did I say cheers!

If you plan on crossing over the subwoofer to take up the low end, then you won't need the M80s for that aspect.
If you don't have a humongous room, then you won't need the larger cabinet of the M80s for that either.
If you prefer more bass overall and want to tweak that volume in the low end, a separate sub has more flexibility in this regard.
If you are more a movie watcher vs. music, the subwoofer is better equipped for those big explosions.

In such a case, the M60-500 setup would make sense.
Otherwise, if those other reasons could apply, then consider more the M80s.

To me there is enough of a difference between the 2 that I would suggest purchasing both the M80s and M60s and send the ones you don't like back, then build the rest of the system around those 2.

I did it, I bought the M60-500 HT package, with the in-cabinet version of the M60's. I went with the regular center channel, so I can be a bit more flexible with placement.

I'm pumped. Ordered my Onkyo 3007 from Newegg today. With any luck they'll both arive this week!

Thanks again to Jollo for the audition.

Welcome aboard! Prepare yourself for many happy hours, days, weeks, years!

Welcome to the Axiom family, please post some pics when they arrive and when you get them set up

Where are you planning on installing the "in cabinet" m60's? Do you have a big enough wall cavity?

In a cabinet...

The front wall of my media room will be a wall to wall entertainment center I am going to build. I'll try to upload a basic schematic I have. I need to figure out how big of a screen I am going to get, then build it around the screen and speakers... I also need to find where the best place is for the sub up front before I build it.

Baha haha ha hahaha ha hahaha ha ah ha


I think all of us here know JohnK's take on amps... there is no place on the market for them. However, somewhere between filling your shoe closet with music and filling Madison Square Garden with music, a Denon, Harmon Kardon, Yamaha, etc... will fall short. Then, it's time for an external amp (or 50, if your room resembles MSG in the slightest).

But somehow I just know that JohnK would be very happy listening to a pair of M60's powered by a Denon 1909 sitting in center court at Madison Square with him sitting in the top row. I just know it!

Not merely my "take" Micah; simple principles of physics. Listening distance is the key.

As is listening levels and it doesn't take all that much to need a lot of power.

Turn it up

Which was what I was trying to say when you 'noped' me. So there!

I know think suspect hope that we can all agree that to fill madison square gardens to reasonable levels would take a little more than an AVR.

Fred, the "nope" was for room size, not listening distance.

Well, in a 10' x 10' room, you are never going to end up 20' from the speakers, so room size has to have something to do with it.

Unless you are listening outside of the room

In which case you would definately need more amp, particularly if you listened with the door closed.

Ok so simple principles of physics would go like this... Listening distance + desired decible output = AVR/external amp.

In other words for JohnK,

10 foot (listening distance) + 86 db's (desired decible output) = AVR (sufficient for the job).


for Micah,

16 foot (listening distance) + 120 db's (desired decible output) = external amp (necessary to achieve goal).



This is correct, yes? Personal preference for volume certainly comes into play in this equation. How loud you wish to play movies/music on your speakers is the biggest part of the equation when figuring out if you'll need external amplification. Room size and listening distance are also important, but it's the decible level you are trying to achieve that ultimately decides this debate.

The simple physics discribed demand more power to achieve higher db levels. If my Denon can achieve 120 db's in my room at my listening distance, then that number is in error in my example, and it should be higher. Because what ever the db level is that the Emotiva drives my M80's to, it's higher than the Denon is capable of. So what ever that number happens to be, replace 120 db's with it, and this will be my equation.

It really is simple physics after all.

Correct, Micah; about 4,000 watts needed.

Super sweet, looks like I get to add a few more amps to my rig!

The best place for the sub will require you to have the sub in the room and move it in different locations. The easiest way is doing the sub crawl found HERE

Also, are you looking to hide the sub up front? Because up front may not be the best place for your room response...

I read that article. I am going to try and find an up front location for the sub, hopefully front and center, vs right or left corner. Then I'm going to build the cabinets around all the speakers. I know it's not ideal from a pure audiophile perspective, but it's a necessary compromise. I'm going for as clean a look as possible.

Form follows function in a perfect world. However, what we live in is far from a perfect world. If there were no women on this planet, Home Theaters would look very different indeed as most men, free from the binds of compromise, would seek ompimum performance first, and then worry about the way it looks second (if ever).

On second thought, perhaps it's a good thing we have women around!

"ompimum", never touched the stuff.

"ompimum" is what you get when you try to be too efficient and eat while you type.

Yep.

But occasionally not...