So I have had my trusty VP150, M60s, and QS8s from back in the day (was it 2004?) They are the original Ti models, not the V2s. My question is has anybody tried both with the same amp, and is their an audible difference? Im just curious about hearing peoples opinions on that. My amp is a Marantz SR7400 (using Oppo BDP-83 to achieve lossless though, through those trusty analogs ;))

2004 was about when the v2 designation was in the works IIRC, so you might already have many of the newer components and not even know it. I am willing to bet unless the speakers in question are A/B'd you would never know there was a difference. I happened to have A/B'd my M22Ti's with M22v2's and the difference was extremely subtle, only noticeable with said A/B comparison.

The only real difference I can think of is that the V2's totally kick Ninja ass all over your crumby Ti's... that's all.


No seriously though where do you live, Conneticut? So just south of Murph right? Does Murph have M60's? I was thinking so, but I might me wrong. Anyhow, even if he doesn't I'm sure he would be more than happy to buy a pair, pack them into his mini-van (not that I know what he drives either, but he seems like a mini-van kind of guy to me. But even if he doesn't have a mini-van, I'm sure he wouldn't mind picking one up for the trip), and head down to your place for an evening of fabulous A/B testing, beer, and perhaps a lap dance (I don't know that he employs any strippers, but I'm sure he wouldn't mind picking a couple of them up on his way down).

So, in summary.... I really don't know much about Murph other than he lives north of you, and is very flexible.

I must meet Murph

I have wondered the same thing, I am due to receive the new VP180 shortly and was told by Jean-Claude that they would match up great with my M80s Tis. So there cannot be that much difference. I purchased my M80s in Sept 2004 and like Jay mentioned a lot of the changes may well be in the M80s I have now.

Yeah, I suspect that by September 2004, they're pretty much v2s. I don't remember when I got my v2s, but the change was so recent that my boxes still say ti.

The back under the binding posts says Ti, did some V2s ship with that label still on?

I bought mine in October/November 2004 and they're Ti's...

I think I got mine December 2004. I could be wrong. It might have been 2006.

Just out of curiosity what does Ti stand for?

Got me. My guess is titanium, for the tweeter material, but I really don't know.

Rad, Happy Birthday! Yes, my understanding is that the crossover change(to the Ti, "Titanium" model)that Alan has mentioned took place before you got yours.

Happy birthday Rad!

IIRC, the very original Ti's only lasted a short time, a year or so and the version change came about several years later as enough of the speaker lineup had under gone changes, minimal ones, but enough that Ian felt it appropriate to start the v2 designation.

Hey thanks for the birthday greets :)and next month going to try this retirement thing see what its all about.

Hi all,

Yes, the original "ti" was indeed short for titanium, and that earlier tweeter was in fact a titanium/aluminum composite dome. Titanium is quite brittle and the aluminum was added for strength.

The latest tweeter in the M22s is pure titanium, which is lighter than the titanium/aluminum composite, and when I A/B'd the latest version with my 2002 M22 ti's, the differences are subtle, as Jay pointed out, but audible. The latest version seems smoother on brasses, vocals, sax and horns, with greater spaciousness and a deeper soundfield than the already excellaent soundstage of the "old" ti's.

It's only audible on really excellent recordings--big orchestral/choral works reveal the soundstage differences best. On a lot of other music, the two models are very close, with the added smoothness noted above.

In terms of on-going changes to the M22s and other models, I'd call them "subtle refinements", the only exception being the old M80ti, whose performance was much smoother after modifications to the crossover added as an ongoing production change in the summer/fall of 2003. It was still called a "ti" until 2005 when the "v2" designation was applied, along with numerous small mechanical changes to the binding posts.

Regards,
Alan

This question, along with Bi-wiring/amping, comes up often enough that it should be made a sticky topic.

I was just thinking the same thing

I have that option in the drop-down menu for "Manage Topics". But what happens when you make the topic "sticky"?

Alan

It sticks at the top of the forum. The only current examples are Peter's google search thread, which doesn't work any more, and the Auditioning Axioms in your Area thread.

Say, we should have a 'sticky thread day', you know, where everyone gets that option for a day. Could be fun.

So Alan, the question must now be... Will the rest of the Axiom line-up switch over to the pure ti-dome tweets now? Or is it only being incorporated into the M22's for some reason?

It seems to me that all of Axioms speakers have always had the same parts. Which understandably keeps production costs down. So it would only make sense to me. For instance, SRoode reported his VP180 sounding just a tad smoother on the top as compared to his M80's... Do the VP180's have the pure ti-domed tweeters?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Oh, I think the pure ti tweeter change was in the v2s.

Ken, I just tried the search engine and it seems to work ok. I think some parts of the forum just don't get indexed by Google. This may be the culprit: http://www.axiomaudio.com/robots.txt
This file tells Google's web spider not to crawl into the /boards section. Funny that some of it is indexed despite this. Huh.

Heh... that would probably do it!

Hi Micah,

Yes, the VP180 has the new titanium-dome tweeters, and it will be incorporated into all the models, if it hasn't been already.

Ken: there have been enhancements to the previous titanium dome. Ian can explain it in detail.

Regards,
Alan

Ken, thanks for the "sticky" explanation. I'll mull that over as to whether my previous post warrants a sticky. Heaven knows, we've all answered the "ti" "v2" question many times, in greater or lesser detail, so a sticky may be justified.

Alan

Oh yeah, make it a sticky.

Alan. I'm sure if you consolidate the info from the last couple of times this question was asked it will be a worthy sticky.

Alan. Is the TI tweeter a drop in replacement or are there crossover changes as well? ::eyes M80s::

What about an item in the Articles page instead. Then when someone brings the topic up, they can be directed to the article.

A sticky is more up front and more likely to be read before the question is asked.

We could make a sticky 'FAQ' up top. Which would include the Ti vs V2 question. The M80 vs M60 question. The M80 vs M22 + sub question. The QS4 vs QS8 question. The 'what speaker wire should I use... Monster Cables, or Bose Premium Cable' question. The 'which reciever should I buy to push my M80's' question. The 'do I need separate amps' question. The 'are FredK and JohnK siamese twins' question. The 'what subwoofer did you end up with Micah' question. And... well I think Grunt should also throw up his ButtKicker endorsement, as I'm sure he's getting carple tunnel syndrom from typing that out so many times on here.

Seriously though, an 'FAQ' would be helpfull in every forum. Since there are bound to be other lazy guys like me who don't even look through any of the other forums, and only come in 'Home Theater' to chat. I know I for one have missed out on many an explanation of things in the 'Water Cooler' and other forums.

Ah ha, seems as though this is not the case. Which makes me wonder, once the new tweeter has made its way into the rest of the line-up, I wonder if a 'V3' designation is in the works?

I think the "which speaker wire should I buy" would not be a good choice for Axiom to make a sticky--that would be an almost official endorsement of another company's product.

Not if they recommend their own.

Yeah, but that would also be somewhat disingenuous.

Over Monster Cable??? I don't think that's even aloud is it? I'm pretty sure the Genieva Convention specifically prohibits such blasphemy.

I'm sure its possible to discuss cables without recommending a specific brand, or even better, giving a list of links to excellent suppliers of audio cable.

Tell that to the Nazi's!

since this is a frequently asked question, how about putting it there? Then again I usually never look at faq spots on sites and I'm guessing others don't either.

2packer,

That's my gut feeling about FAQ as well. I never look at FAQ spots either. I don't think that's the right place to put it. Maybe I'll just keep answering the question again and again and again. It gives my life meaning. . .

Alan

Alan, I am also curious as to whether or not the new tweeter is drop in replaceable or whether y'all have made changes to the cross-over.

So, what's the answer?

2x6,

The new tweeter is not drop-in replaceable because there are/were adjustments to the crossover(s), as you thought.

Alan

Whenever someone asks about the cummulative changes made from the Ti to V2 versions just tell them to private message sirquak.

When I first starting hanging out here and was more interested in helping people rather than telling jokes, I had a few things saved as a Word document that I could copy and paste to save time. I think Jack had one saved on setting up a system with an RS meter.

The only one I still use is "Yes, JP, I still think you're handsome" in response to a series of PM questions I receive from a certain individual on a thrice-weekly basis.

Personally, I like questions like these that continually get asked over and over. If not for them, hell my post count would only be like 80.