In the process of narrowing down speaker options and seriously considering the VP150 and M60 floors, and my Denon 2802 receiver just died so need to purchase a new reciever (or components) first. I have a M&K V125 sub that cranks pretty good base. Typically I look at Den, Yam, and Mertz but want to make sure I get plenty of power to drive Axiom speakers assuming I go this route. I have a budget of 1K for receiver, open to any brand, wondering if anyone has suggestions?

Welcome Contentt.

Denon is probably the preferred brand here, and many guys are liking the newer Onkyos as well. Not sure which side of the border you're on but you'll be able to get more than enough power to drive the M60s in your price range.

I think you'll be "Content" with either of those brands.

Contentt, welcome. I'd suggest that you consider a Denon or Onkyo unit(forget the Mertz; I don't know anybody that has one)with Audyssey MultEQ. The Axioms are average to slightly above average in sensitivity and don't have any unusual power requirements. Any of the receivers with typical ratings in the 100-150 watt area should be plenty for safe listening levels at the usual home distances.

You don't necessarily have to go the whole $1K, especially if you get a factory refurbished unit, which should be at least as reliable as a brand-new one. A particularly good buy at the moment, which I've suggested several times, is the Onkyo 707 available for about $400 plus shipping. Models such as the 807, 1007 and 3007 are also available for $1000 or less. Similar Denon deals are available from eCost and Dakmart.

I agree with the Onkyo suggestion. I've the same speakers in the front and am using a 2 year old TX-SR705, 707 being current model, just saw it today new under $500 on newegg. Home theater performance is excellent as is stereo for music.

Thanks I'll look into the Onkyo units. What question, besides the differences in the specs is there any the other ways the Denon and Onkyo differ? Wondering if one company manipulates the sound more, or is more pure? Besides the specs what does one consider when looking at different receiver brands?

Hi Contentt,

Denon and Onkyo IMO are two of the best receivers manufacturers in the market today. From a features, build quality, and value perspective. From a general standpoint there is not much difference between them. Brand loyalists usually will stick with what has worked in the past.

One general thing to note is that Onkyo receivers run hotter (temperature wise) than comparable Denon models. If you choose the Onkyo make sure to keep enough space around the unit to keep it well ventilated.

The differences between makers is more about how they offer to manipulate the sound. If you want to pass the audio unchanged, they all do that well.

What I meant by the first part, is that different manufacturers license different "room correction" software, or in the case of Pioneer or Yamaha, write their own. Though with Onkyo and Denon, they've both settled on using the software developed by Audyssey.

Hello, You might want to look into pioneer elite sc-27.I got a great deal from 6thave for 950. I had a onkyo 705 and it was having problems driving my m80's with the vp-180.The pioneer is making my speakers sound truly amazing.

I wonder why Marants isn't much appreciated. I have the litle SR5003 and i pretty like it for movies and for music too.

Someone here had a pretty bad experience with a Marantz unit (michael_d?), and I think the name has suffered since then on this board.

There shouldn't be any problems now that Marantz are built on the same assembly line as Denon using the same parts. But why pay more for the same stuff?

well i've got my marantz sr5003 for 300$. I guess it's a fair price. Denon/onkyo as good in music as marantz ?

My denon plays music just fine

Thanks for all the info. Any thoughts on the value of two HDMI out's, currently have projector and TV and wondering about the Denon AVR-3311CI?

It's a convenience for someone connecting two displays by HDMI, but not necessarily a major one which should be a deciding factor in a purchase. External HDMI splitters are available from MonoPrice and other sources.

Definitely agree with you. That's the same advice I got from everyone over here on the forum.

I could see some benefit to having 2 HDMI outputs if each was capable of outputting a different resolution if needed. Presently my Onkyo 3007 has 2 outputs but with the primary taking resolution priority which is fine now because both my displays are the same resolution. However, previously that was not the case so I couldn’t switch between displays with different computers. Note that for me this has only effected computer use but then I’m not trying to run a 720p projector along with a 1080p HDTV. That might also cause problems.

AFAIK a few external switches will compensate for different resolution needs.

Interesting story, somewhat related.
I met my new boss for the first time last week. I knew he was an electrical engineer but more interestingly enough, I discovered he used to work for an electronics company and a good part of his job was working in a small team breaking down amps, receivers and other items to determine why they sounded a certain way. He described a large room with a wall of various speakers and gear where they would sound test different components.

He definitely falls in the camp that amps and receivers from different manufacturers will have a different sound due to the components used, even modern digital receivers.

Not promoting the concept either way, I just thought it was great that we had a common interest to discuss over coffee other than work. 1st meetings with a new boss can be less than fun in many cases.

I once had an electrical engineer from Bell Canada tell me that you had to have all your speaker cables the EXACT same length.

Well, I don't work for Bell Canada but since they are our parent company, as far as majority shareholders go, I'll refrain from joining you in making fun. Even though I might want to.

I once heard a salesman make a similar argument to a customer. I just had to ask him how good his ears were to hear a timing difference in a few feet of cable considering that electromagnetic waves travel at very close to the speed of light. I once once heard a similar claim, same store different guy, that the tighter weave of the outside wire in Monster Cable allowed the electrons to flow faster there. Thus making the high notes clearer. Sigh......

I'd like to think I knew enough about electricity and physics in high school to at least question the validity of such statements but it's a shame there is a whole market based around people who would take it at face value.

Just a side note on something I learned recently, is the electrons only travel along the surface of a wire, so given the same gauge of wire, the stranded wire will support the movement of more electrons than the single strand version will.

In an analogue signal, it's not the travel of electrons that brings the sound to the speakers. It's the electromagnetic wave. The electrons themselves barely travel along the cable at all for DC and if it were AC, they just vibrate.

The electromagnetic wave however, travels at the speed of light in a vacuum and although it can be slowed a (relatively) good bit in our world of solid materials, it will still arrive on the other side of your living room faster than you can measure without a nearby quasar to use as calibration. I think only Randy keeps one of those in his basement.

You just made my day Murph.

I know Kimber Kable use a special braiding technique on their speaker cables which have a measurable effect on the inductance and capacitance of the wire. I have to admit the Kimber wire does look nice. However, well made standard zip cord will do the job just as well.

As for the weave on the outside of the wire causing the electrons to flow faster is utter nonsense.

It's easy to make a neutral cable which passes all audio frequencies equally. Some companies go to great lengths to produce cable geometries which cause the wire itself to act as a tone control; rolling off highs or what ever.

Axiom's speaker wire is "oxygen free". Is there any special merit to oxygen free wire?

Tighter weaves mean faster electron travel? Ha! Everyone knows what makes the most difference is elevating your cables above the floor so the electromagnetic wave doesn't suffer from negative boundary effects against the floor -- especially carpeted floors. The thicker your cable and the louder you play your music, the higher you need to get them since the EM field will also be larger. For example, if you have 14ga wire and tend to listen at 90dB, you should have your wire at 6.43 inches above the floor.

For the curious, you can derive the correct height from Gauss's law:



where p is the sound loudness, and e0 is the wire's gauge. And, as we all know, decibels divided by wire gauge gives us inches.

And don't pay too much for the required cable elevators, either. You know all those wooden chopsticks you have in your junk drawer from eating Chinese takeout with a fork? Well now you'll be glad you didn't throw them out. Just make tripods with chopsticks held together by a rubber band. You can adjust the height by where you place the band.

I think I answered my own question at this link

That link's right. Oxygen-free isn't a big deal, but is one of those things which must be listed for enthusiasts to take a product seriously.

The snake oil salesmen will have you believe that copper oxide crystals can function as rectifier diodes. Since audio signals are alternating current, the last thing you want is for that signal to be converted to DC. Good thing they're full of crap.

Edited.
I keep getting sniped. I type too slow or more likely, too much.

I'll add that perhaps 02 free cable will not turn green as fast on you. Well, your exposed ends still can eventually. However, either way the levels of 02 in regular audio vs. those listed as 02 free are really a small percentage to begin with. Can't remember numbers.

You wouldn't like me when I'm green.

So that was you that was passed out by the urinal at the pub the other day.

Indeed if you throw enough technical sounding jargon into your sales pitch, you'll convince 95% of the population (even though more than 5% of the population is educated, a lot of educated people are still gullible) that your claims are backed up by scientific facts. And who are we to question science?

Only God is allowed to do that.

Ahh, but today's science is tomorrow's rubbish.

Doesn't matter, to the salesman one in the hand is better than two in the bush.

I'd rather have one in the bush.

Marantz is right up there in terms of quality. The *HUGE* drawback is the lack of end-user FW upgrade path. With technology changing so much, and FW that require bug fixes, it's a major PIA!

I actually took my SR8002 back in favor of Denon 3808 for this reason.

Remember, you can't drive two HDMI outputs at the same time (HDCP limitation). So it comes down to convenience (native split within the AVR or an external one)

I would strongly urge you to connect up the component as well.

What's wrong with two in the bush?

Again another one Mark would hit out of the park.

I miss his manatee.