I'm a couple weeks out from ordering my Axiom speakers (M60s, VP150 and QS8s) and I need a good sub to throw in the mix. My room is 13' x 18' x 10' and has a 9' opening to the stairwell on the right side of the tv. I want a sub that will shake the walls during movies but still provide tight harmonious bass with music.

My budget is around $1200 Canadian. Subs I've looked at:

EP500 - right at my budget, made in Canada, good warranty - is it it really 5 years including the amp? matches speakers. My only concern is the price seems high compared to the competition.

A5-350 - looks like a beast, made in us - with shipping and gst, total would be around $1050, warranty is only 1 year on the amp

SVS through sonic boom - concerned that amps recently changing over to DSP but I believe sonic boom is still selling old stock

HSU - to much to ship to Canada - VTF3 would cost the same as a5-350 despite selling for 100 less in the US

Epik - looked at the Empire - haven't looked into shipping yet.

To all you axiom owners out there, what sub(s) are you rockin?

I just recently became aware of another option available for Canadian consumers regarding subwoofers. You won't get hit with import charges either which is a problem with the majority of subwoofer manufacturers and living in Canada.

http://www.funkywaves.net/

There is lots of information regarding their products on home theater shack to research. FWIW one of their subwoofers is going to be featured in audioholics latest subwoofer testing which will include measurements and listening evaluations which you should keep an eye out for along with an offering from SVS and ED I think.

Thanks for the link, they definitely have some unique designs. When is the audioholics article supposed to come out?

That I am not sure on. It seems at this point they have the list of manufacturers and subs that are going to be featured.

If you want the possibility of saving a few bucks and go Axiom, I would try the EP350. I have it in a room just a little smaller than yours and it provides plenty of bass for music and movies. Bought mine with custom vinyl for about $830.

If you can get a SVS PC-12 plus from Sonicboom audio, I highly recommend it. Will fit in your budget, great sub, cylinder looks cool too.

I just ordered an Outlaw LFM1-Plus. They just had a sale so it was a deal. Had it shipped to a US Address (I'm in Canada) and its been sitting there since WEDNESDAY and I haven't had time to go pick it up!

350W of 12" power... just... beyond... my grasp! Gah!

snazzed

I would consider the HSU ULS-15, which is right at your budget limit. It digs down quite low linearly (around 15 Hz) and there have been positive reviews. I bet for movies it has a thump-you-in-the-chest impact that (if the movie scene calls for it) some of the others may not because of the difference in driver size and amp in the ULS15.

The specs of the Epik Empire seem to be quite similar though, so between those two it could be pretty close. I recommended the HSU first because I haven't read any reviews of the Empire, but I have with the HSU. If there are good reviews for the Empire then it does seem like a better price.

I just noticed that the new Epik Empire has dual 15's and not just one like it used to. It seems like a very similar sub to the HSU ULS15, but with two drivers. I would seriously look into the Epik. They have had good reviews with past products and this looks like a very good sub for the price. But, there aren't any reviews out yet that I know of. So you should probably see if you audition it in your home (a 30 day return policy?) or if there is somehow you can listen to this sub first.

I have been using a Paradigm DSP3400 with my Axioms for the last 2 yrs to good effect. Price at the time was $700 CAD with some minor haggling but I think they'd likely go for $800ish + these days. To be fair, I've not heard an Axiom sub as of yet, so I'll reserve any comparison to the EP350 or EP500, but so far, I'm very pleased with the Paradigm.

The HSU ULS-15 is 1300 US - after shipping, brokerage and duty this one would be way over my limit. I've looked into the Epik, but according to the website, they only ship within the US?

Never considered Paradigm as I just assumed they would be quite expensive. I'll have to take a look.

Anyone here done comparisons with the EP500? Is the EP500 worth the money?

I have compared the Paradigm SP3100(10") to a EP350v3 and the little paradigm held it's own for movies and was as good for music, IMO. The DSP3400(I haven't heard one in my house) should be as good or better (sorry Axiom) than the EP350. The EP500 has quite a bit more low end thump for movies than the EP350, again IMO.

To be honest I think you would be very happy with any of the subs being mentioned as the differences are really only noticeable when A/B'd, as long as the driver sizes are equal. I can usually tell when a 10"sub is playing during good LFE scenes in movies compared to 12" subs. That extra displacement is required for authoritative low end rumble.

Where do you live in Canada...if your in the GTA your welcome to come over and audition my sub. I went with funkywaves for my current sub and would highly recommend him. With your set budget your probally looking at one of his fw12.x designs. I was told that sub was designed to compete with the pb12 plus here in Canada and would very likely surpass it. I personally can't wait as we'll see those results after the ultimate sub shootout...

PS: You have nothing to lose if you send him an Email..see what he has to say.

The driver sizes are not equal.

The ep350, ep500 and HSU vtf3 have 12" drivers , the SVS subs have 10" to 13" drivers. The Epik has two 15" drivers which is equivalent to a 21" driver. Furthermore, with the two opposing drivers you get reduced enclosure vibration.

I agree that he will probably be happy with any of them, since they are all good subs. But, to me the Epik seems to be in another league just looking at the specs and price point.

So many choices..... Living in Canada definitely narrows those choices a bit though due to duty brokerage and shipping costs.

No one recommending the EP500? Part of me wants to stick with Axiom as they are Canadian and have a good warranty. I'm hesitant though as it seems most Axiom owners go elsewhere for subs?

Thanks for the invite Billy but that would be a 3 day drive for me - I live in Calgary. I am going to look more into funkywaves though.

A lot of people aren't online today--there's a big shindig at Axiom HQ and at least 20 people are there or headed there.

I have an EP350, and I love it. However, I haven't directly compared it to any other subs.

Thanks kcarlile. How big is your room? Does the ep350 give you the theater experience (or close to)?

My room's about 18x19, but I don't usually watch movies, so I can't really tell you about the theatre experience.

I've only had 2 SW. An EP175 and EP350. I would put the EP350 at 3 times the sub the EP175 was. I get plenty of low effects for movies. I've not tried a bigger one, but I'm satisfied with the EP350. My room is 17 x 12 x (8-12 avg 10 high) with 2 openings.

SD, welcome. I've put over 10,000 trouble-free hours over the last 3 1/2 years on my EP500, and certainly can recommend it highly. It is a bit pricey, however, and may not share the unbeatable performance/price ratio that the Axiom speakers have in my view.

Canadian prices on equipment are still a bit of an enigma to me, so good luck in putting your budget to use most effectively.

I'm in Edmonton, if you wanted to check out my SVS, we could probably set something up. Takes some of the gamble out of the online purchasing. Just drop me a PM.

Onn has a crazy sub collection of Axiom subs that he would probably be happy to audition for you too. The EP500 from the factory seconds might be close to your price range.

Thanks sweetspot. My wife does not like the look of the tube subs, so unfortunately these are not an option.

Thanks John. I'm glad to hear from another happy axiom ep500 owner. I'm a little hesitant to buy an axiom sub as it seems most axiom owners look elsewhere for their sub. Not sure if it's due to weaker performance or just better bang for the buck elsewhere.

Hey, I'm sure there are a few of us in the same boat-whatever we get needs to have WAF. The Wife Approval Factor. And Wife Approved Funds. Mine liked the idea of lots of bass in a smaller footprint, and lower price tag (for SVS anyway) of the cylinder sub vs. the endtable/ottoman sized cabinet models. Same bang (boom?), smaller buck.

Happy shopping. With a $1200CAD budget, you should have lots of cool options!

Quite a few of us own non-Axiom subs simply because we bought our subs before Axiom introduced any of the high end models. As an example, I own an SVS PC-Plus but probably would have bought an EP500 or EP350v3 if either had existed at the time.

I have an Axiom sub (EP600) and am extremely pleased with the performance in our 25x14' room although some of the drywall joints don't seem to be as pleased as myself.

That's a killer setup you have - nice job. Glad to hear you enjoy your ep600. Right now I have narrowed it down to the EP500, funkwaves and sonicboom. Will be deciding shortly.

Though I've only had my system for a little over a month, you can add me to the "extremely happy" with my Axiom sub (EP-500) group.

Every time my son and I watch a Bluray with good low frequency effects we can't stop smiling. Case in point, last week we watched "Matrix Reloaded". Wow, it's like we'd never seen the movie before. We enjoyed it in a totally new way. Same with "Paranormal Activity" - I'd already seen it but this time I nearly jumped out of my chair when walls or doors were struck. Seemed like the paranormal stuff was going on in my living room.

I am so happy with my Axiom sub that next week my EP-800 should be arriving. I figure that if an EP-500 sounds awesome - well I can just imagine what an EP-800 sounds like.

Thanks sdbadd, I really don't think you can go wrong with a 500 at all.


I'm really glad to hear that you got your system all dialed in and it's working out great for you Oscar, congrats on the 800! Is that going to be in addition to the 500?

Hey Rick,

No I won't keep both subs. The 800 will replace the 500 - if after trying it out I feel it's worth it. Took me about a week of goofing off with settings till I got everything sounding right.

Maybe we can get together sometime for a few cold ones.

The problem with Axiom subs is that they cost an awful lot.

I'm late to the party, but you might want to talk to Jay (jakewash). He did a LOT of subwoofer listening (and shipping back and forth) He is out in Calgary as well.

I'll throw in a vote for the eD A5-350. It's big, but offers a lot of bang for the buck. I'm amazed by its performance, though I haven't heard many of the others for reference.

Thanks for thinking of me Fred. I sent him a PM with my thoughts.

I know. It's the same problem with great cars, great restaurants, great houses, great hookers........etc.

Actually having recently looked at prices of equivalent subs(IMO), Axiom's subs are not that much more expensive than their counterparts. I know a few years ago when I was looking I did find Axiom's subs were always a few hundred more but now there appears to be very little difference as Axiom has held their pricing while the others have had price increases. In the States the story is a little diffeent as shipping costs are not as much of a factor.

You forgot great smoke(s). I guess it was in the et cetera.

I am in the EP500 club and it fulfills my needs in a HT that's 14 x 16 x 7.5 ft. Very happy with it. You get palpable chest-thumping LFE. King Kong seems like he's right there. So do those depth charges in the submarine movies.

Yes, but not if you buy in "bulk."

And on a serious note, I'm with medic8r, completely. Auditioned many, and many were really good. Am thrilled w/my EP500, too.

In the lower 48 contiguous states, at least. In Alaska and Hawaii (where I am), shipping costs are a big factor. Axiom charges no more for shipping to Hawaii, while SVS and HSU, for example, charge much more for shipping.

What kind of bird are you?

I using EP350 for my 17 by 19 with 9 foot cathedral ceiling and quite happy with it. So I'm pretty sure the Ep500 is a pretty good choice if it fits your budget.

Asked the Cat in search of exotic food....

Another vote for the EP500. It pounds my 19 x 25 x 8 room. Killer HT experience.

Scott

I'm also a canadian in the subwoofer hunt. but i'm not after something that shakes my entire house to bits, i'm after a musical sub that'll give me a nice punchy kick drum sound/bass guitar etc. any recommendations? i'm not using this for ht, just music. (my speakers are the m80s)

What is the crossover set at for the M80s? You should be able to get a decent kick drum out of the M80s as the best punch is in the 50-80hz range. I have my M80s set to 40hz and with the right amount of power they have some great punch to them. The larger the room the more power required to get this punch, so a separate amp might be required. A good sub will also help in this area but the majority of it I feel comes from the mains.

If you still want a musical sub, any of the subs mentioned on this forum will work as they are all qulaity subs. Some do say a sealed sub is better as it doesn't reach as low (usually) as a ported sub. I had a SVS PB12-nsd that lots of mid bass punch to it. The PB12 has a bump in the frequency response right around 50-60hz, really good punch out of this sub but I felt it was unnatural and was a little annoying, too much like a car subwoofer.

My receiver is the Outlaw 2150, it's got a switch on the back for subwoofer crossover.. that's the only crossover control I think I have. Are you talking about about a crossover within the actual speaker itself seperating the woofer from the midrange driver?

He is referring to the switch on the receiver. The M80s have a lot of kick and punch all on their own, as they should with their more than capable low frequency response.

I don't get more kick with my sub than just my M80s. I do get more rumble with explosions and other movie lfe and more satisfying deep bass on my pipe organ cd.

Ah, more of a 2 channel system. As Fred mentioned I was refering to the receiver's sub setting, but yours appears to be very limited. I am not familiar with the 2150 to know what that switch does.



off to download the manual. I'm back


I would set that sub switch to bypass for now until you have a sub and even then I think I would keep it in bypass and use the subs filter; set at 40 to only have it play the lowest notes the M80s are not all that capable of playing. I suspect that switch cuts out the signal below the selected frequency so the mains wouldn't get anytihng below 60 if you were to use it

There also appears to be a speaker eq setting that could boost the bass in the 50-60hz range you could try setting that to see if that gives you the desired punch from the M80s

Thanks guys. I haven't had these speakers very long yet so I'm not too worried, but it doesn't hurt to see if there's an easy fix I've seen it on this forum numerous times people getting worried about their speakers before their ears adjust and they set them up properly, so I'll try to stay chill and keep fiddling.

What's a good pipe organ CD? I have to get my hands on one and give it a listen.

J.S. Bach, Great Organ Works 1, Decca

Johnk posted another, but I don't have the title handy.

Kordeo. There are two reason I can think of that you would think the M80s lack punch: you are used to a speaker with a mid bass hump that exaggerates the kick, the speakers are in a position that is creating a significant dip in mid-bass response at the listening position.

Here's a bit of useless trivia. My M80s have a LOT of kick when I listen from the bathroom. Room acoustics can be funny.

Thanks, Frederooooo.

Cam, the other organ CD that I've suggested is Organ Blaster and the entirely Bach 2-disc set by Hurford is this one .

Frederoo, you are probably right about me being used to listening to systems with a mid bass hump as this is my first serious system. I have been to a lot of live rock shows tho, and the kick certainly isn't generally a little thumper there :P

Thankfully the room I currently have my m80's set up is only for a few months, than they're moving with me and my new wife into my own house

I have this sudden urge to hop about in glee!

I havn't gone to any rock concrets lately. Way back when, I don't remember the amount of thump some people like these days.

Mybe they play the bass hotter at concerts these days too. Which begs the question of exactly what hot is anyway.

I am willing to bet the bass is bumped up alot more than when we used to frequent concerts. An exaggerated bass seems to be the norm these days.

EDIT: After looking at the picture gallery again doing some rearranging with my speakers as well as moving a couch it's starting to sound grrreat. My sub gas is leaving now. Whew.

Seems a pretty big toe-in is the solution. I thought from my forum reading the solution usually was 'after a slight toe-in my speakers came to life'. Hello. Every room is different.

And yes, at 23 I'm a youngin around here. I appreciate you more mature chaps tho

Thank you very much, John. Hey, I would have really liked to meet you at the GTG; it's unfortunate that you couldn't make it.

Where should we start, Frederooo. Jewel is hot .

Sofia Vergara

Tom, I hadn't heard of her. Just did a quick search.....YOWZA!

Thanks to everyone for there input - I have received my new sub!! After more research I decided to stick to Canadian suppliers for the convenience of the warranty (if ever needed) and cheaper shipping. This left me with Axiom, Funkywaves and SVS (Sonicboom). Funkywaves provided some good options in my price range including dual 350W 12" woofers or a 500W 15" woofer. My only concern with FunkyWaves was the limited 1 year warranty. SVS gave me the best bang for my buck and the new DSP Sledge amps are really slick. In the end, after my wife saw me looking at 125lb end tables for a sub, she pushed me towards the cylinder versions and I ended up with a PC12-Plus with the new 800W DSP Sledge amp. Actually worked out really well as the cylinder version allowed for a lot more placement positions in the room and it looks bad a$$ too

My axiom speakers come in early next week so I'll post back once everything is hooked up and positioned.

Hey 1sweetspot - any suggestions for setting up this bad boy?

wow, congrats on that! Those are some serious improvements to an already solid sub-I'm sure you'll be happy with that decision!

I set mine up in the front left corner of my room which works pretty good sonically and aesthetically. Set the crossover to bypass and the volume at about one third, phase to 0 degrees. I set the sub in the receiver to LFE+mains at 60hz for the M60's, 80hz for VP100 center, and 90hz for QS8 surrounds. Then I would recommend of course setting the speaker distance and setting the channel levels with an SPL meter.

I haven't had a chance to experiment with the various settings using the port plugs, so it is running at 20hz, no ports plugged and works awesome. With these settings at about -4 on my receiver, my couch shakes during movies (such as the opening Blackout helicopter scene from Transformers, or Mount Doom from LOTR) in my basement on concrete. The sub blends in well with the fronts for stereo too-not flabby at all.

The PEQ is another thing that I need to explore more, so I don't have any advice there, I just need to narrow down which frequencies are exaggerated in my room, but it looks like on the new on that you are getting (did get?), that may be easier to do.

You'll have to keep us updated once the rest of your goodies arrive!

I would do a sub crawl and place the sub in the spot that gives you the best/smoothest sound in the room, unfortunately that might not be the best place for the sub so you will have to make some concessions.

I would love to compare my PB13 Ultra to that PC12 Plus just to hear the differences.

Same here. I kinda wish I lived out in Calgary! (Can't believe I said that out loud

Glad to hear everything worked out and you decided on Svs. I found dealing with Nathan very enjoyable and I understand your concern with the warranty, but for me it was never an issue. AAMOF after my sub had shipped from BC and arrived here in Markham the courier had messed things up(largely due to weight)making it undeliverable BUT he quickly resolved those issues with his contacts. As for our spouse's reaction...mine was fully understanding that I was going BIGGER...

Good luck and share some pic's when everything is set up!

Reagrds, Bill...

Thanks 1sweetspot. Speakers should arrive on Monday or Tuesday and I should be able to hook everything up over the long weekend. I was planning to try that Room Equalization Wizard software to calibrate. Even the wife is excited.

Your welcome to come over and demo once everything is setup.

That would be fun.

Lugging the ~150lb PC13 Ultra around isn't easy but it is for a good cause

Keep me/us informed when it is all together. What will the final set up be, equipment etc.?

Lol, k maybe it would be easier for me to bring the 60lb PC12 Plus to you.

Equipment setup:

Axiom M60, VP150, QS8
SVS PC12-Plus
Denon 3311
Panny TCP65VT25

Nice set up.

As long as I don't have to take the PB13 into a basment with really narrow/steep stairs its OK with me. I could even bring the M80s over for a comparison if you would like.