VP180..wait to buy it if..

Posted by: Hansang

VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/23/10 11:37 AM

you can't afford the $720USD price tag, WAIT, SAVE, then BUY IT!! The $300 price difference between the 150 and 180 is ABSOLUTELY worth it.

I just got VP180 last night, and I couldn't wait to test it out (until I moved). So I just stuck the cardboard-foam under the speaker and place it in front of my TV. So while the placement is slightly different, the sound nevertheless was outstanding!

Everything sounded much better. It MOST DEFINITELY is worth the extra $300. So don't hesitate about getting it if you're on the fence.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/23/10 03:40 PM

I have to admit, sitting on the fence gets uncomfortable after a while....
Posted by: CV

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/23/10 03:47 PM

I want one.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/23/10 03:59 PM

Chain link or wooden?
Posted by: CV

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/23/10 04:02 PM

AAC?
Posted by: casey01

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/23/10 04:07 PM

With the soundtracks coming out of Blu-Ray movies and music nowadays, NOTHING can beat the sound of full range speakers across the front. The VP180 is just the final link in the chain of reaching audio nirvana especially used in conjunction with M80s or 60s as your L/Rs.
Posted by: CV

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/23/10 04:14 PM

The only reason I wouldn't try a VP180 is if I decide I can make the space for an M80 as my center. I just have to figure out how big of a screen I can manage. I should go calculate that now so I'm no longer wondering.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/23/10 07:24 PM

Nice to hear that you are happy with your purchase Hansang.

Enjoy.
Posted by: CV

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/23/10 08:46 PM

Originally Posted By: CV
The only reason I wouldn't try a VP180 is if I decide I can make the space for an M80 as my center. I just have to figure out how big of a screen I can manage. I should go calculate that now so I'm no longer wondering.


Hmm, there may be hope for an M80. Using an M80, I can manage around an 80" diagonal screen. I can have my front row of seating at around 8.5' away, and my second row at about 12.5' away. If I'm using the calculators right, that should be pretty close to ideal, right? At least now I know I can do a vertical center despite the lower-than-normal ceiling in the basement.

I'm still curious about the VP180, though. I would love to hear one versus an M80 for a center.
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/24/10 10:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Hansang

Everything sounded much better. It MOST DEFINITELY is worth the extra $300. So don't hesitate about getting it if you're on the fence.


I definitely agree.. the VP150 was never meant to be with the M80. I moved the VP150 with the M60 and it's a perfect match. The VP180 blends nicely with the M80. I checked the output of both M80 and VP180 with a spectrum analyzer and there is a difference. Seems like the M80 go lower and are able to go higher with the same test tone. The lower and higher frequencies were cutoff with the VP180.

It may be related to crossover configurations, my m80 are v2 and VP180 is v3.
Posted by: bdpf

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/24/10 11:46 AM

I agree on the VP150 vs VP180 comment. The only thing that would probably be better is M80 center but it's very hard to accommodate for most of us so I would say that in that case, the VP180 is as close to perfect as it can be.
Posted by: nickbuol

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/24/10 11:16 PM

So the VP180 is great with the M80s, and the VP150 is good for the M60s... Any reason to fork out all that extra dough to go from a VP150 to a VP180 in I have M60 fronts? No more trade in program, and I don't think that I would get a whole lot for a used VP150 (maybe, I guess) in Axiom Cash....
Posted by: grunt

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/24/10 11:55 PM

Or you could hold out (have them design one for you) for a VP160. wink
Posted by: Worfzara

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 08:55 AM

Sorry guys, but I have to dissagree with the 150 vs 180 conclusion here.

I owned a 150 for over 5 years and think is it an excellent C. speaker. The only issue I had with it was it sounded a little thin with male dialogue. The VP180 solves that problem.

I don't think the matching the 150 with m60's is going to cure the male voice issue. Match this with any speaker from any company and you will still have a thin sounding male voice.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 10:03 AM

Originally Posted By: grunt
Or you could hold out (have them design one for you) for a VP160. wink


Yeah. The matching driver complement to a M60 would be a WM^TW design too. smile
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 10:08 AM

The MT/WM design: the ribbon tweeter of center channels.
Posted by: bdpf

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 10:13 AM

I would still use a VP180 with the M60s. As mentioned, the VP150 sounded thin. The other problem that I had was for some concerts where the bass guitar comes mostly from the center, it was very weak. It is just a better speaker overall if you can accomodate the size. I had both at the same time in my house and for me, it was worth the extra $300, for others, it might not.
Posted by: grunt

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 01:21 PM

I have to agree based on my tests of the VP150 and M80 as center speakers. I owned both for over 2 years and did extensive comparisons in two different rooms and the results were always the same. The VP150 center sounded thin and often hollow compared to the M80. Most noticeable were the VP150s weekness in bass and thinness or sometimes nasal quality in male voices. Neither I nor any of my friends I tested it on need to A/B compare them to hear the difference it was so obvious.

While the M80 isnít the same layout as the VP180 it has the same drive complement and likely similar sonic characteristics except for dispersion so I think the comparison between those two and the VP150 are valid.

Iím just happy to see how many people are now agreeing that compared to the M80s the VP150 is out of itís league.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 02:06 PM

I disagree with everyone, the VP150 is waaaaay better then the VP180. Of course, I don't own a VP180 yet, so basing my opinion on a hunch.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 02:06 PM

Personally, I think the VP100 is the best center speaker that's ever been made.
Posted by: CV

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 02:12 PM

My phantom center will eff you up!
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 02:12 PM

Ken is correct.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 02:13 PM

Originally Posted By: sirquack
I disagree with everyone, the VP150 is waaaaay better then the VP180. Of course, I don't own a VP180 yet, so basing my opinion on a hunch.
Originally Posted By: kcarlile
Personally, I think the VP100 is the best center speaker that's ever been made.


laugh laugh laugh
Posted by: speedbump

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 04:35 PM

I have seen this opinion (VP180>>>VP150) expressed enough times that there must be truth to it, but I'm still a little confused why this is.

For the most part people respect the M22s, and I've heard it stated more than once, that M22s when properly integrated with a good sub come close to the sound of M80s (at least to a certain volume level, in reasonably-sized rooms).

The VP150 has a third 5.25" driver, yet many say that it sounds weak/thin on things like male vocals. I would think that if it set up with a sub and the right crossover settings, it should (like the M22) sound pretty good.

I do understand that the M22s are ported, and assume that this is the primary difference. The M22s are also spec'd to reach 25 Hz lower than the VP150. Can the extra driver and added efficiency not make up for bass-reflex design, even when properly integrated with a quality sub to cover everything below 85 Hz (or higher)?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 04:54 PM

Originally Posted By: speedbump

I do understand that the M22s are ported, and assume that this is the primary difference. The M22s are also spec'd to reach 25 Hz lower than the VP150. Can the extra driver and added efficiency not make up for bass-reflex design, even when properly integrated with a quality sub to cover everything below 85 Hz (or higher)?
Possibly if the enclosre of the VP150 was bigger, the way it is right now I think it comes down to some of the harmonics the ported designs have over the sealed VP100/150. The port just allows male vocals to resonate/react with the room more.

The 150 has an edge over the VP100 and the M22 has the edge over the VP150 but next to the M80s even the M22 sounds a little thin with male dialogue. The best option is still another M80 which most of us are not able to use, thus the VP180 narrows the margin.
Posted by: 2x6spds

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 05:42 PM

Speedbump, are you a mind-reader or something?

So, as I read this thread last evening while listening to a movie on my VP150 CC system, I thought to myself - "you know, this center channel speaker integrates so nicely with my 15" subwoofer that it sure sounds pretty much like a full range speaker."

On the other hand, if the frequency response curve is ruler flat for the VP150 and also for the VP180, why do they sound different at normal listening levels? Could it be that frequency response curves are not really determinative of a speaker's sound quality?

Oh the horror for the positivist-reductionists among us.
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By: kcarlile
Personally, I think the VP100 is the best center speaker that's ever been made.


The Axiom AX1.2 eclipse the vp100! I have it in my gym! :-p try to get better than that! :-)

pic, I have the center and bookshelves AX1.5 ! :-)
http://www.axiomaudio.com/images/HomeTheater_AX.jpg
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 06:03 PM

Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Speedbump, are you a mind-reader or something?

So, as I read this thread last evening while listening to a movie on my VP150 CC system, I thought to myself - "you know, this center channel speaker integrates so nicely with my 15" subwoofer that it sure sounds pretty much like a full range speaker."

On the other hand, if the frequency response curve is ruler flat for the VP150 and also for the VP180, why do they sound different at normal listening levels? Could it be that frequency response curves are not really determinative of a speaker's sound quality?

Oh the horror for the positivist-reductionists among us.




The on-axis frequency response will tell you some but the VP150 and VP180 are apples and oranges comparisons. Different design - bigger cabinet, crossover, driver complements, and one is a full range speaker that can be crossed over to a sub much lower than 80hz while the other cannot. With that many changes the tonal and overall sound/performance differences of the two speakers would be different for sure (more than what would be shown with the on-axis response) and each will perform much more differently off-axis. Axiom does not post its off-axis response curves for either model but for a center channel (any speaker for that matter) off-axis is super important on the overall perceived sound quality. Add in a spectral decay plot at the very least for each speaker and you will have a pretty good idea how a speaker will perform.
Posted by: LucRaymond

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 10:41 PM

Originally Posted By: speedbump
I have seen this opinion (VP180>>>VP150) expressed enough times that there must be truth to it, but I'm still a little confused why this is.

For the most part people respect the M22s, and I've heard it stated more than once, that M22s when properly integrated with a good sub come close to the sound of M80s (at least to a certain volume level, in reasonably-sized rooms).


I had M22TI + VP150 + sub +QS8 in my living room and no, I don't think they come close to the M80. In a very small room, maybe. My wife would cry if I swapped the M80 for the m22.. We dont listen at whispering level, so for us, the M80 is another league.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/25/10 11:00 PM

M22s are fully capable of sound levels at typical home listening distances which meet "reference" levels set for movies(too high for most listener's tastes). For music sources which have no established reference levels and can vary widely between different discs, similar levels to movie reference can be used if desired, subject to concern about hearing damage.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/26/10 09:41 PM

Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
On the other hand, if the frequency response curve is ruler flat for the VP150 and also for the VP180, why do they sound different at normal listening levels? Could it be that frequency response curves are not really determinative of a speaker's sound quality?


My understanding was that both response curves were pretty flat within the frequency range of the VP150, but outside that range (ie lower frequencies) the VP180 was still pretty flat while the VP150 was... um... less flat wink
Posted by: jakewash

Re: VP180..wait to buy it if.. - 10/27/10 01:13 PM

Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
On the other hand, if the frequency response curve is ruler flat for the VP150 and also for the VP180, why do they sound different at normal listening levels? Could it be that frequency response curves are not really determinative of a speaker's sound quality?


Actually the FR curves do tell about a speakers SQ, if the FR is not linear or near flat then you can be assured of hearing a slightly (or worse) colored sound. The M3 is a perfect example, It has a different sound to it than the M22s and the M3's FR shows that difference, a dip in the lower midrange and a slightly elevated upper bass hump.

Having said that, FR curves are not the end all be all of how a speaker will sound, as has been mentioned, there are many other factors involved and the absolute worst factor is the listener's own preferences that can not be accounted for via a FR graph. But the FR graph will give you an idea of how much the basic speaker design is influencing what you are hearing.