Hope my picture uploading works (can't seem to get it to work so links will have to do)!!

The room is 12'x24'. We will be viewing the TV (currently deciding but probably a 58" Samsung plasma) at 11'. The TV will be near one end of the room and it will be viewed width wise.

I will be using my old Energy Encore speakers (good quality small satellites) as the surrounds, and the Energy sub. For the front three (all have to be mounted on the wall for several reasons), I think the M22 for LR, and either the VP150 for center or a M2 mounted vertically. This is where I need help! I have "perhaps" talked my wife (happy wife is a happy life) into perhaps mounting a M2 vertically, but she really is pushing for the horizontal VP150 (purely on aesthetic reasons).

So my questions are;

1. Can anyone quantify the difference in sound from using either the VP150 or the M2 as a center? From reading several posts perhaps the M2 paired with the M22's would give a better sound rather than using the VP150...

2. If I were to use a M2 for the center, could I mount the M22 upside down to try and get the tweeters on all three to be as close as possible to the same horizontal height?

[img:center]http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jQ_slZAAfJbkUeLJday4IUll2mUgezXbMK3seZj60II?feat=directlink[/img]


[img:center]http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/H2vSTRgXsgxdLe3eoMEWCUll2mUgezXbMK3seZj60II?feat=directlink[/img]

[img:center]http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/c5aqHWnTTiU_t3YKhh-q4kll2mUgezXbMK3seZj60II?feat=directlink[/img]

Here you go.....

Which variety of speaker are you planning to use? You have these choices, 1) bookshelf, 2) on-wall, 3) on/in wall, 4) in-wall. And your center may be a different version than the L/C.

If on-wall, and if at all possible, go with the in/on wall version for improved sound quality, even though it's a bit of a pain having to cut holes in the wall. You could mount a VP150 bookcase speaker under the TV and slightly angle it upwards.

The horizontal speakers have good vertical dispersion, and the vertical speakers have good horizontal dispersion, if I understand this correctly.

1. A couple more clarifying questions. Where exactly are you planning to mount your speakers. L/R on each side of the screen with the C above or below? All three below the screen? This might influence which combination would work and look the best.

As Brian (CatBrat) mentioned the biggest difference between using a vertical or horizontal center is likely to be how evenly the sound disperses around the room. If you plan to put the center above the TV a horizontal center’s better vertical dispersion might work best because of how high it looks like it would be in relation to your seating. If your center will go below then a vertical center like the M2 might sound better because of the improved horizontal dispersion.

A couple of other options to consider are using a VP100 center. It should do fine keeping up with M22 mains and being closer in size to the M22s might also look better, plus it’s less expensive. Another option if you want to go vertical is using dual M2 speakers above and below the screen (top one upside down for tweeter alignment). Some people like this arrangement because it anchors the center channel right in the middle of the screen and IMO could look quite aesthetically pleasing (but then you probably haven’t seen my room. ).

2. Yes you can mount an M2 upside down w/o any problems I use to run my center M80 that way and it worked great.

Cheers,
Dean

Hey....how did you post the pictures...

I really only can do the on-wall, I don't want to start cutting holes in the walls as I plan to move the whole setup down into the basement when finished, so holes in the wall are a no-no.

If I do go with the VP150, I will do as you suggest CatBrat and mount it under the TV. The TV's bottom edge is at eye level when sitting, so the VP150 mounted just under the TV should be at perfect height.

Plus, you can get BOTH the M22 and VP100 as IN-WALL versions if you wanted everything as stealthy as possible.

That TV seems kind of high to me. I know you have to balance function and aesthetics - and it looks like it is "right" - but I'm especially sensitive to having to look "up" at the TV.

I was planning on placing the LR on either side of the TV and the center below the screen (roughly at hears height)




Thanks for the suggestion of using two M2's, one above and the other below the screen, hadn't thought of that.

IMO you could probably go with either a horizontal or vertical center then. Things I would consider are what your primary use will be, how close you will be sitting to the screen and how far to the sides the widest seating will be.

IMO horizontal center speakers can create a better “wall of sound” blending better with the mains which I find works best for movies, TV and video gaming especially if sitting close to the screen and if the L/R mains are spread out wide.

IMO a vertical center will create more precise imaging for vocalists and instruments when listening to well recorded music, but if the L/R mains are spread out wide and you sit very close I find that the center can draw attention to itself separate from the mains form movies which can be distracting. OTOH if you have people sitting far off to the sides especially near walls I find that a vertical center sounds much better far off axis horizontally especially with a wall nearby the seat.

In your case if you put all the speakers near the TV they would not be what I would consider spread wide apart.

IMO aesthetically the best look would be as tom suggests to use M22 mains and a VP100 center based on how you say you would position them, or M22 mains with dual over/under M2 centers.


Cheers,
Dean

OK, after talking to my wife, here are the options that will work (and we can both live with). If you guys could help me out by letting me know what order I should put these in for best listening experience (in all cases I will go with the M22 on either side of the TV, mid way up).

1. VP150 under TV

2. VP100 under TV

3. Dual M2, horizontal, one above and the other below (don't even know if they can be mounted like that, my wife just can't stand the look of any vertical speaker under or on top of the TV...thinks it "looks" to strange).

4. Dual VP100, one above and one below TV (perhaps not necessary to have two?)

I will only be using the speakers for watching movies, no music. We will be sitting 11' from them, and the farthest sitting position will be about 2' either side of center (usually only going to be two people watching at one time).

I was planning to place the M22's about half way between the left edge of the TV to the wall (as seen in the third picture), and whatever that distance is from the TV, the same for the right M22. Course I'm open to suggestions on this as I have no idea what the rules are about how far to place the LR speakers from the TV.

In general, don't put speakers designed for horizontal dispersion vertical, or vertical dispersion horizontal.

VP100 will work fine if you're only a couple of feet from center. I would use either a VP150 or vertical M2 if seating is wider.

OK, thanks for all the help guy's

I've narrowed it down to either the VP150 or the VP100 paired with the M22...

Either one of those works very well, I have both and paired them with my M22's bookshelfs, not alot of difference, the 150 will play louder and deep male voices play a little more naturally, but I only noticed this during some A/B testing, my wife didn't think there was any difference so YMMV.

I haven't really noticed any unusual dispersion problems with the VP100. We're about 10 feet away, and I think it presents a darn fine soundstage to all the positions on the couch.

I notice a big dispersion problem with the VP100 when I move from sitting head on to sitting in an easy chair off to the side. Distance about 7 to 8 feet, 25 to 30 degrees.

I used a VP100 for a long time and thought it was a great center and like Tom I didn't notice any unusual dispersion issues either, we were approximately 12 feet away.

Ken is our forum expert on orientation issues!

Ken speaks Chinese? what?

I think of it more as a presenting a darn fine sound pulpit.

That's f'in funny! But, how do you know this, Mark?

You see that bit where I live in the SF Bay Area?

10 feet away... 3 seater couch ... VP100... no dispersion issues here in any of the seats.

That would be about the point where dispersion is at its max. 25+ degrees outside of the drivers.

Flyer, ideally tweeters should be at ear level. Since the bottom of your screen will be at eye(or ear)level, the M22s should be positioned upside-down so that the tweeters will be just a bit above that. The M2 on-wall is very unobtrusive and should pose no aesthetic problem positioned vertically at the bottom of the screen so that its tweeter is just a little lower than those of the M22s.

I think you would have a hard time mounting the on-wall M22's upside down. it's designed to hang on the power bracket and the hangers on the back of the speaker are at the top. The ports are downward firing ports.

Brian, the ports being top or bottom wouldn't make any difference, but if the mounting points on the back of the speaker don't click firmly into place, but simply let the speaker hang on the wall bracket, then some additional support to hold the speaker in position would be needed.