Hello All,

Has anyone tried running two M22s (one on each side of the television) as a center channel? Would this even be recommended?

We recently moved and the new room with the theater setup simply doesn't have anywhere to put the center channel below the tv (granite slab and cabinets I can't change). The TV is already up too high to raise it any further. It would probably be possible to (barely) get a VP150 above the TV with consderable shelving work (would love to try the 180, but a 50 lb speaker hanging over a plasma doesn't feel right). Asthetically the M22s on each side (with M22s for front left / right mains another 3-4 feet from each of the centers) would be best, but I'd rather not base this on asthetics alone.

How would this solution compare to, say, two M80s as the mains running a virtual center?

Thanks for the opinions...
-Michael

Hi Michael,

Unless you sit exactly in front of the TV, running a virtual center doesn't work well; even if you do sit in front, never to either side, you still don't have control of the center channel dialog volume, a major liability, especially with movies or TV shows where the dialog has been mixed at too low a level (quite common). With a virtual center, if you happen to sit to either side, then the center-imaged audio will collapse to the speaker nearest you, moving the music/dialog away from your video display to the M80 nearest you. Highly unsatisfactory.

Using two M22s to each side of your video display is a big improvement because at least it gives you independent control of dialog levels, but the center dialog will still shift to one side--to the M22 on the immediate left or right of the TV--if you are viewing off-angle. In my judgment, that would be an acceptable compromise if you absolutely can't put put a center channel above or below the flat screen.

Regards,
Alan

I would not use 4 M22's, as i think you are mentioning, two for the left/right, and 2 more closer to the tv for center. I would just allow the left/right m22's alone to create what is called a "phantom" center. Many have achieved fairly good results using this method when they can't accomodate a regular center. If you have ever listened to regular 2 channel stereo CD's, the singers voice usual appears to be coming from dead center, this is similar to when using "phantom" center for movies. Another option is to possibly mount an VP100 or similar above the screen angled down slightly, or possibly one of the "onwall" or "inwall" versions.

I disagree with Randy. While a phantom center works just fine for me for music, it is rather unsatisfactory for movies and TV. I would recommend an inwall or on wall center if you can accomodate that (at least there's no shelf that way!)

I ran two M22's for a couple years. They work quite well together as a center, but the distance apart that you have them makes a big difference. Two close together and you might as well have one, too far apart and there's noticeable separation. I found that 32" +/- a couple inches to be 'just right' for my room.

Exactly my experience Michael, spaced out accordingly and a phantom center works very well for various applications. Recently, prior to getting my VP180 stand setup I was without a center for a week. My 80's spaced out about 10ft gave me an amazing center channel experience. I was even suprised when I moved from seat to seat, I really didn't experience it following me as much as some has noted.

Dual centers like how you want to set them up would be a total waste of money IMO.

Can you set up a single horizontal center on a stand out in front of the cabinet/tv? Otherwise use a phantom and buy some back surrounds instead if you don't have them.

Thanks for the responses so far.

To answer some of the questions / explain a bit more. I already have 4 QS8s for the surrounds -- more than sufficient.
I also have a pair of M22s I've used as the mains for years and a pair of VP100s that were used under the TV in my old setup.

I could put a center on a stand in front of everything, but that would look somewhat awkward and block built in cabinetry.

The primary area for TV & speakers is a cabinet recess that is:

2 ft deep, 7.5 ft wide, and 4.25 ft high. This recess is built into a wall of custom cabinetry and is already 32" off of the ground.

We have a 60" plasma (on its own stand) in the recess -- there is plenty of room on each side for whatever speakers we like -- I've actually considered upgrading to M60 or M80 mains (though they would be raised off the ground the 32" and might need tilted somewhat -- or set upside down to lower the tweeters?).

With the 60" plasma, that leaves only around 15" or so above it between it and a giant wood beam (8 inches thick at the front of the cabinet). I've considered trying to hang a center from the beam somehow -- it's more than up to the task if there were some way to properly support the speaker, but I do fear that it would look rather precarious hanging above the plasma -- especially as I'd probably be tempted to hang a VP160 or VP180 if I was going to that much effort, rather than a 150.

Still having trouble deciding what to do -- asthetically the M22s on each side I think win, but our usage is almost entirely home theater (gaming / TV / Movies) and I would prefer not short changing our typical setup by not having a center -- though I know lots of people still run happily with a phantom.

Anyway -- thanks for the advice -- any further thoughts from folks would be appreciated. Tough mental hurdle to jump across.

Thanks,
-Michael

Why not just put the two VP100s sideways in place of those M22s-as-center? That way you already have them.

Hi Michael, if you've got 15" of room above the TV, I would go for putting the VP160 or 180 in that space. You could even do a slick looking install with the in-cab version of those speakers. You could always hire a carpenter/cabinet maker to build a custom shelf to match the cabinets. That's not the most budget friendly way to go, but based on the description from your last post that's what I'd do. The 160 is 11.5" tall, so it sounds like you have the room. Do you have any pics of the setup?

You are all ignoring the obvious. Just mount an on-wall M22 in the center of the TV. A little superglue ought to work fine.

Keep joking Cat!

I don't have a center, but now that I have a multichannel AVR I have been taking one of my M3's and using it for center channel experiments. I plunk it down right in front of the tv on the tv stand. After a little while you get used to it!

What Ken said!

Michael, welcome. The info in your second post clarifies things significantly and indicates that you already have the speakers to try out various center channel possibilities. I experimented in the past with one center, two center and no center(speaker)arrangements. A discrete center has the advantages Alan mentioned in anchoring dialog to the center of the screen and allowing the center channel volume to be increased independently of the mains to help when the dialog has been mixed relatively low. Note that the dialog(with a "phantom" center)doesn't suddenly switch to the nearer speaker if you move off center; it stays in front of you as you move and will go out as far as the speaker on that side.

Using what you already have, first try the M22s alone to see if the "phantom" center is satisfactory; don't assume that it isn't. Then use your VP100s vertically directly at the sides of the TV to see if that discrete center(which still would have some image shift with movement to the sides)would work well for you. Also, simply put one VP100 vertically on a temporary support under the TV in front of the cabinet(or even try both there vertically positioned directly alongside each other). No good reason to be thinking of spending more money yet.

I dunno....centers 60" apart, I don't think you'll like that at all. I sure didn't.

Pics would help.