Hey guys, I am looking to upgrade from my vp 150 to a vp180 but I'm not sure if cost/improvement will be worth it, or just go to a vp 160? Any feedback will be appreciated. My mains are m80ti's.

simple answer to your question.. HELL YES IT IS WORTH IT....


I went from a 150 to a VP180.. comparing the two, would be like taking a knife to a bazooka fight...

The 180 is on the bottom.




I have M60ti's with the 180, and would not want anything else....

The upgrade form VP150 to either of the BIG centers is well worth it. I had the VP100v1, VP150v2 and I have heard both VP160 and VP180 and they both sound great wih the M80s. The VP160 doesn't hit quite as low and maybe not quite as hard as the 180(nit picking on these 2 points), nor can it handle the 700W the VP180 can take but the 160 can handle more than enough power for all but the largest of HT's. Where the 160 betters the 180 is off axis listening, to me it came down to this feature, so I went with the 160, if all my seating was directly in front of the screen I would have gone with the 180.

I also have the M80tis and I just got the VP160 going from the 150. I think the change is pretty huge. I'm also in IL and open for an audition if you would like.

Thanks, near Quincy?

No, I'm quite a bit north in Wilmington.

Dak,
that first picture is amazingly informative.

Here are some pictures of my VP180 when it arrived. I posted these back in September, but figured it would be easier to add them here, than for people to go to that link.

I compared it to my VP150 and M60 fronts...

The box...


VP180 vs VP150 size...


Another view...


Next to the M60 fronts...


Next to M60s again with grills off...


Lastly, top down size comparison with the M60s on the left and the VP180 on the right.

When i unpacked the 180, my initial response was HoLy CrAp, This thing is Huge. When i got mine, there weren't really any side by side photos for people to visualize the size difference between the 2 speakers....

The 160 ain't no slouch, probably sound better in alot of situations compared to the elder brother.

The pictures in this thread have me giddy with excitement for my new speakers to show up next Monday.

That is why you run 2 centers, and use both the 160&180 That is what i am thinking about doing... :~)

Not sure if I'd do that.... Look at the spl spec on each. Unless you have independent gain control for each, one may be considerably louder than the other. I know the VP150 was four db louder than the VP160 in my room. Too much to use both.

Oddly enough, the VP150 spl was within 1 db of two M22's.

Yep, I totally concur that if you are going to run two center channels they better be the same model, otherwise you can, because of differing designs and positioning and even with the same manufacturer, have a volume imbalance issue. Obviously, the only way one can get around this is with separate amplification along with the ability to adjust the volume independently of each. I have also tried it with a separate volume attenuator switch however, it adds noise to the speaker you are attenuating.

I heard that double (non-matching anyway) centers wasn't worth it for that exact reason. One will dominate over the other and you won't really notice much of a difference.

I know, some of you are thinking the same thing that I was... Wouldn't it provide a wider/taller/more centered/etc center channel sound experience. I was told "not really" by the experts. Thus the reason that my VP150 will be "homeless" (or at least "system-less") once my build is done.

If i use my Marantz amp it does have independent control of each channel on the amp.



That is what i was thinking... The 180 for the frequency response, and the 160 for the dispersion...

hrm.. I will just stick with the 180 then.

Yeah, I'm starting to care less and less about people outside of the sweet spot. They're not me, so why should I try to give them a better experience if it compromises my own?

JC has two centers going "ask him", I would like to hook up my 150 on the bottom and 160 on top of my picture. That would be enough for me, very soon you will need more front speakers the way the centers are sounding.

But tell me what you love about it!

Sorry, don't know yet... I am still constructing v4.0 of my theater. The VP180 is sitting still in plastic wrap waiting...

I had no idea amps were available with this function. Sounds pretty cool. Which amp do you have? I'd like to check that out....

its an older (2003) marantz MM9000 150W @ 8ohm @ 5 channels.

My other amps do not have this option.

Right now the Marantz, is powering my bedroom system.. I really like it. However, it did not have enough power for the family room (Axiom) system. My family room area is open concept so there is a LOT of sq footage to fill.

I have a Luxman amp with separate controls, also had a Kenwood amp that had it too.

So how do these multi channel amps with independant output control actually work? And are there any currently on the market?

Unless it is an older or more obscure brand name out there, it is pretty unlikely you will find something in a multi-channel amp with separate gain controls. I believe they did that in newer designs since any controls, theoretically will add noise to the signal and users would be controlling the levels from the AVR/Pre-Pro anyway. Also, unless the power amp has a lot of juice, controlling the volume from the amp itself and depending on the setting, could limit its full "head room" capability.

If your heart is set on the two center speakers, it has been discussed in other threads here about the use of pro stereo power amps such as the "Crown" and other brands which are quite reasonable in price with lots of power. You can get one dedicated to the center channel speakers and they generally have separate gain controls for each channel.

on the Marantz, it is a signal gain adjust that is before the amplification stages, adjusts the incoming signal from the RCA's before the signal goes to the "amplifier"...

if you have some extra cash, i say buy one of the Marantz units, i have been very happy with mine. I've had mine for 8-9 years now... the only reason i changed amps was due to the need for more power. I was driving the marantz into clipping on several channels durring movies (darn open concept)...

I don't know if there are any current generation amps that take have this option or not, the Marantz might have had this to get "THX" certified or something..?

Casey, a pro amp is a really good idea. I hadn't thought about it for this application before. Fan noise, though.

Is there any sort of device that would be in series between the pre and amp to lower the gain? Actually, a pre with two seperate channels for a dual center would be ideal, but I do not know of any.

Michael, depending on how DIY you want to get, you could wire up a variable resistor network to go in between your processor and amps if you wanted. That would give you the results that you are wanting.

He has 2 180's


CV, IMO there is very little compromise going from the 180 to the 160.

Since what you hear is both direct and reflected sound, the off-axis response is also critical even in the sweet spot.

Mark, you should have confidence that either the VP160 or VP180 would be a significant improvement for center channel material in your setup. Note that on the VP160 page here Axiom states that "...the VP160, is the best center channel speaker for our award-winning M60 floor standing speakers as well as any other speakers in our tower lineup". Of course, whether you'd find that the improvement is worth the cost is your personal decision.

Mike, the level controls(not "gain" controls; audio amplifiers have fixed gain)on some amplifiers, especially Crown and other pro amps, work the same way as other volume controls: a variable resistor allows varying amounts of the incoming voltage through to be subject to the fixed gain(typically increasing the voltage by a gain on the order of 30dB, about 25-30 times).

As to whether there are units that connect between e.g., a pre-amp and amp to reduce the voltage on one or more channels, see this fancy(about $135)volume control with a vaguely familiar name.

Thanks John!

First of all thanks for all of your comments. After much deliberating and hem hawing, I have decided to go with the vp160. I placed my order and am anxiously awaiting it. Thanks!

Markdar.

Give us an update and impressions of the 160.

IMMEDIATELY.