Hi there! I'm looking for something for a room of this size, with one open side into the kitchen. I was thinking something like the Grand Master 175 HT Package or VP100 centre with M22s, QS4s or 8s and either the EP175 or EP350 sub. My catch is that I am going to buy in-walls for the LCR.

I was thinking the QS4s and smaller sub would most likely suffice, but wanted some input here.

Can you give me some advice/help/suggestions?

Much appreciated
Adam

Go with the QS4s and the EP350.

With a room that size, definitely nothing smaller than the EP350. I've no experience with the QS speakers, but also with that size of a room, I'd be tempted to go with the QS8's. Bigger box and bigger speakers = bigger sound. Many people are satisfied with their VP100, but I liked the sound from the VP150 better. If you can't afford to upgrade QS4 to QS8 or VP100 to VP150, I'd still go with the smaller versions.

3 identical speakers for L/C/R would be optimal, but most people can't place a vertical in the center position. If you could that would probably work better, sonically.

It looks like I'm suggesting the Epic Grand Master 350 system.

The QS4s do a great job in my 20x13 room. But as suggested, I'd go with the biggest sub (Axiom or not) I could afford.

Definitely big sub. I feel like I've been taxing my EP350 lately with the TRON movie turned up fairly loud. This is the first movie that has made me feel this way.

If it's in your budget, I'd opt for the QS8's over the 4's...imo, they are the better value and use the same drivers as the M22's. I also agree with the recommendation of the EP350

Qs8's for sure, I have both and the 8's are more than twice the speaker.

Welcome Adam,
I have the QS8's, EP350, M60's, and VP100 in a slightly bigger room than yours with one side opening to a dining room. I'll probably go deaf before I max out the sound on this system. I would suggest the QS8's and EP350 as well.
Cheers,
Shaun

yeah, you don't want upgradeitis within a few weeks.

Spend the extra $$ and get the EP500 with DSP.
I had the ep350 and then ended up with dual ep500's.
Go big or stay at home or you may regret it later...I know I did.

Welcome Adam,
I'm with everyone else on the sub - minimum EP350 but bigger if you can. Keep in mind the EP350 and EP500 use the same enclosure, so size is equivalent for the WAF between the two. I have not heard the QS4's, but have the QS8's and can't recommend them highly enough. Lastly, as Cat said, look into a vertical center speaker if you have the space for it. Good luck.

i have used my EP600 in a 10'x10' room before, i thought that was a perfect match.. Now my room is 17'X18' i am still using the 600, but want another.. so another 600 will be on the way soon enough.. i have M60's and a VP180

Thanks everyone for this amazing feedback. I'm certainly thinking that a 12" sub would be worthwhile, if I go Axiom or another brand. I'm not moving for another 8-12 months as my home is being built, so I will continue to ask questions and poke around this forum!

Seems like the popular opinion would be to go with a vertical centre, but the only in wall option would be the M22. Can that be mounted horizontally?

Flipping the way a speaker is designed to be used is not recommended. Can interfere with proper sound dispersion. Although, I still wonder about flipping the VP160 from horizontal to vertical. Even though this practice is not recommended, it seems the VP160 center could handle this well, as vertical L/C/R behind an AT (acoustically transparent) screen. Although M80/M60 would probably be better suited for this purpose. I'm thinking in-cabinet designs mounted in the wall behind the screen.

What got me thinking about using the VP160 in this way is the short distance from left and right speaker (or rather top and bottom speaker, when rotated). When mounting behind a 2.40:1 screen it puts all the speakers closer to ear level. With the M60/M80 it would put the tweeters closer to the ceiling unless you flip it. Then it would put the woofers closer to the ceiling. We're talking about a ceiling that is a little under 7 foot.

^^^ Latest thoughts on VP160 flipped vertically ^^^

Adam, can you consider the in-on walls instead of the straight in-walls? That way the cabinet volume gets bigger and you can get deeper extension out of the speakers. My 2 cents on that point.

As for the vertical center - call me slow - but for me it was news that vertical centers were even 'allowed'. Everywhere you shop center channels are almost always horizontal in a complete HT system - I thought this was done because it was the best design for center channel sonically speaking. It was a surprise for me to learn that it was this way for ergonomics/cosmetics and not for the best sound configuration. While I prefer a vertical center after some experimenting, it is not for everyone and a good horizontal center can also sound great. So in the end, do what works for your setup, but at least know there are center channel options to consider no matter what brand of speaker you are looking at.

I'm not so sure that the in-on/wall has more cabinet volume than the in-wall versions. This could be correct, but I'd check with Axiom first. I was under the assumption that it was the other way around.

The specs for the M22 are -3dB for the bookshelf and in/on wall at 60hz, 70 Hz for the full in wall and full on wall. To me that means the cab volumes are bigger, but what I was really saying (or trying to) is that the in-on walls have a bit more depth than the full in-walls. Cosmetics might outweigh that fact, but thought I'd point it out in case it helps make a decision.

Cheers,

This might be a mute point if one adheres to an 80hz cross-over point. The difference between 60hz and 70hz would probably go unnoticed anyway.

Not trying to be argumentative, but just opening up his options.

Not taken argumentative at all Brian. Good point on the 80 Hz x-over anyway. We're all just trying to help the OP.

You guys are incredibly helpful, much appreciated. I am looking towards in-walls only because of the sleek, seamless look. Considering Axiom since everyone has provided such in depth, positive reviews. It appears like the Axiom in-walls come with a back box rather than just the speaker faceplate, which should help the depth. Is that about right?

That is correct. It requires more space in the wall, but it seems like a good trade-off to me.

Yes, they are self contained with their own enclosure and the speakers protrude slightly from the wall. As I've mentioned, I also had to do an on wall solution due to room factors. I found Axiom really excelled in the value area for on wall solutions especially. To get similar sound quality to Axiom for on wall I had to spend significantly more money.

My only question for now, I suppose, is if it will be a loss to use the inwall VP100 vs the onwall VP150. Maybe M2s or M3s would be better matches to the VP100 rather than M22s. I'm not really sure!

I know people hate it when I say this and tend to disagree, but in my experience with Axiom products, the more they cost, the better they sound.

I would avoid the M3's unless it's a small stereo only system. They have a different sound than the rest of the line.

So for me, I would go by looks and price.

Adam, I'd pick the L&R speakers that work for you 1st including type (i.e. in wall, on wall, in-on walls or full bookshelf). Then for your center you keep with the same type, but you now have a choice of vertical or horizontal. If you go vertical, ideally you get the same as your L&R so you have 3 identical speakers across the front. If a vertical center is not for you (does not matter the reason), then choose between the 100 and 150. Differences in matching are quite subtle, so you'll be fine with whatever you choose.

For instance I had the VP150 which matched perfectly well with my M22's, but when i compared it back to back with the M2, i found the M2 matched my M22's even better than the VP, so I made the switch. That's the short version of the story anyway.

Nothing will be a loss, just slightly different shades of performance and value, all you have to do is pick what works best for you regardless of any opinions we share. Have fun with it!