Next Generation Axiom Speakers? - 12/24/12 02:52 AM
Just a thought…
I was just wondering how long Axiom will hang on to V3? Are there new designs in the future, or another tweak?
Just a thought…
I was just wondering how long Axiom will hang on to V3? Are there new designs in the future, or another tweak?
Re: Next Generation Axiom Speakers? - 12/24/12 04:22 AM
The V3's have only been around a few years. Ian was constantly tweaking the V2's during over the years until there was enough difference from the originals to the latest versions that the v3 designation had to be used. I suspect the v3 will be around another year or 2 then again who knows.....
Re: Next Generation Axiom Speakers? - 12/24/12 04:32 AM
That sounds about right I guess. I'm still a couple years away from purchase anyhow!
I wonder if they add a woofer to the M80, like the LFR1100 or the Bryston Model T. It would give it that much more bottom end punch. However, I have never heard the M80, so I have no idea! Someday I will hear what all the talk is about!
Thanks!
I wonder if they add a woofer to the M80, like the LFR1100 or the Bryston Model T. It would give it that much more bottom end punch. However, I have never heard the M80, so I have no idea! Someday I will hear what all the talk is about!
Thanks!
Re: Next Generation Axiom Speakers? - 12/24/12 05:42 AM
Originally Posted By: F16Thud
I wonder if they add a woofer to the M80, like the LFR1100 or the Bryston Model T.
Don't count on it. I asked Ian for like 3 years for that... I had to settle for the LFR's......
Keep in mind the Bryston Model T's are 10-12'000$ speakers....... not exactly in the same arena as the M80's.... Besides, you could get a pair of M80's and a pair of EP800's and get more audio for less $$ with axiom... Oh, not to mention not needing 6 channels of amplification........ Yes, i looked in to the Model T's as well....
Re: Next Generation Axiom Speakers? - 12/24/12 06:27 PM
The LFR1100s were certainly a radical change from what Axiom was known for over the years, however, because of its increased size and the external equipment required to operate them, it comes at a considerably heftier price which I would suspect many present M80 owners, including myself, probably don't think the theoretical performance improvement is worth all that extra cash. Others may think different.
From what I have seen over the years, regardless of the manufacturer, other than maybe some rearrangement of the drivers and size of the cabinets, it is essentially about changing the aesthetics and cabinetry and the fancier and more elaborate the cabinetry the more expensive the speaker. I think, at times, those that have bought this higher cost type of speaker, psychologically believe that the fancy new cabinet is going to give them audibly better sound. The actual design of the electronics and "sound" probably hasn't really changed that much if at all from the previous model.
I prefer what Axiom does in that they give you the option of the cabinetry you want where other manufacturers, especially with their "top of the line" model might only give you two or three options with the cost already built in. If I buy a pair of LFR1100s in their standard finish I am still getting the same sound even though someone else insisted on spending the extra couple of grand or so to have them in rosewood or high gloss black.
From what I have seen over the years, regardless of the manufacturer, other than maybe some rearrangement of the drivers and size of the cabinets, it is essentially about changing the aesthetics and cabinetry and the fancier and more elaborate the cabinetry the more expensive the speaker. I think, at times, those that have bought this higher cost type of speaker, psychologically believe that the fancy new cabinet is going to give them audibly better sound. The actual design of the electronics and "sound" probably hasn't really changed that much if at all from the previous model.
I prefer what Axiom does in that they give you the option of the cabinetry you want where other manufacturers, especially with their "top of the line" model might only give you two or three options with the cost already built in. If I buy a pair of LFR1100s in their standard finish I am still getting the same sound even though someone else insisted on spending the extra couple of grand or so to have them in rosewood or high gloss black.
Re: Next Generation Axiom Speakers? - 12/25/12 02:34 AM
Casey, this is quite true about the cabinetry....
I have a pair of B&W's in another room. I've said it before, the B&W's cabinetry is wonderful, much more sophisticated than the Axiom products that i have. However, the B&W's don't sound any better to me than the Axioms; and they cost 3X what a comparable Axiom product would cost.... I specifically bought the B&W's because i wanted them.. That's about it.. It's all the reason i needed.. But, from a value point of view, the Axiom product would have been a "better" buy.
I have a pair of B&W's in another room. I've said it before, the B&W's cabinetry is wonderful, much more sophisticated than the Axiom products that i have. However, the B&W's don't sound any better to me than the Axioms; and they cost 3X what a comparable Axiom product would cost.... I specifically bought the B&W's because i wanted them.. That's about it.. It's all the reason i needed.. But, from a value point of view, the Axiom product would have been a "better" buy.
Re: Next Generation Axiom Speakers? - 12/28/12 01:04 PM
Casey1,
You bring up some excellent points that are major Axiom differentiators: the constant drive for better overall performance and the ability to customize your products to your own liking. Overwhelmingly people see these differentiators as positives, though there is the odd one who twists it into a negative, generally on the presumption that other companies don’t do this so it must be negative.
Our quest for continuous improvements covers all kinds of performance and production details. But by far the most concentration is on the family of curves. The down side to the family of curves is its lack of sex appeal; the upside is this is where the largest improvements to sound quality can be made.
Adjustments to the family of curves rarely have any sort of visual product change associated with them, like a new fancy cone material or outer cabinet change. Besides driving marketing people crazy, this lack of visual changes can lead one to surmise that the individual models are not changing much in performance over the years. But this is not the case. Hearing is believing.
The family of curves is a rarely-discussed aspect of loudspeaker design, even though it is where the largest performance gains can be made. In a simple small bookshelf speaker there are around 60 different curves to consider in the design process. For large multi-driver towers there can be over 180. By far the vast majority of our double blind listen testing is related to determining improvements that can be made with small changes to the family of curves.
The other problem with the family of curves is it is a difficult - and for most impossible - mishmash of data to make sense of. Meaning it lacks any easy-to-point-to visual talking points. To add insult to injury on this visual front it is the hard-to-see-in-the-curves low Q stuff, not the easy to see high Q stuff, which matters the most. The LFR1100 with its independent control of the front and rear radiation patterns gives us even more control over the family of curves; this is what allowed us to create that really large and seductive soundstage that makes the LFR1100 so addictive to listen to.
As for individual customization it really involves two key factors; that you manufacture the product yourself and that you do it here. Customization is really out of the question if you are OEMing your products, especially if the manufacturing is done offshore. We also had to reconfigure our factory to accommodate both regular production and unique built-to-order production. Another factor is the distribution method. On-line direct is conducive to customization. Since that is how we do our distribution then we should apply all the advantages we can to increasing our customer experience. Customization is fun too, it allows you to make your product absolutely unique if you want and adds the flexibility to only purchase what matters to you. These are some pretty big positives.
You bring up some excellent points that are major Axiom differentiators: the constant drive for better overall performance and the ability to customize your products to your own liking. Overwhelmingly people see these differentiators as positives, though there is the odd one who twists it into a negative, generally on the presumption that other companies don’t do this so it must be negative.
Our quest for continuous improvements covers all kinds of performance and production details. But by far the most concentration is on the family of curves. The down side to the family of curves is its lack of sex appeal; the upside is this is where the largest improvements to sound quality can be made.
Adjustments to the family of curves rarely have any sort of visual product change associated with them, like a new fancy cone material or outer cabinet change. Besides driving marketing people crazy, this lack of visual changes can lead one to surmise that the individual models are not changing much in performance over the years. But this is not the case. Hearing is believing.
The family of curves is a rarely-discussed aspect of loudspeaker design, even though it is where the largest performance gains can be made. In a simple small bookshelf speaker there are around 60 different curves to consider in the design process. For large multi-driver towers there can be over 180. By far the vast majority of our double blind listen testing is related to determining improvements that can be made with small changes to the family of curves.
The other problem with the family of curves is it is a difficult - and for most impossible - mishmash of data to make sense of. Meaning it lacks any easy-to-point-to visual talking points. To add insult to injury on this visual front it is the hard-to-see-in-the-curves low Q stuff, not the easy to see high Q stuff, which matters the most. The LFR1100 with its independent control of the front and rear radiation patterns gives us even more control over the family of curves; this is what allowed us to create that really large and seductive soundstage that makes the LFR1100 so addictive to listen to.
As for individual customization it really involves two key factors; that you manufacture the product yourself and that you do it here. Customization is really out of the question if you are OEMing your products, especially if the manufacturing is done offshore. We also had to reconfigure our factory to accommodate both regular production and unique built-to-order production. Another factor is the distribution method. On-line direct is conducive to customization. Since that is how we do our distribution then we should apply all the advantages we can to increasing our customer experience. Customization is fun too, it allows you to make your product absolutely unique if you want and adds the flexibility to only purchase what matters to you. These are some pretty big positives.
Re: Next Generation Axiom Speakers? - 12/29/12 12:50 PM
Hey guys im kinda new to discussing this audio business , so take it easy on me. I'm just asking why the software of the ep500 algorithm can't be updated? I'm saying this because my emotiva umc1 pre/pro can be easily updated, when it's available. What's the difference between a sub & pre/pro update???
Re: Next Generation Axiom Speakers? - 12/29/12 02:54 PM
NOFX
EP500 software can be updated if an update of the code on its own was to be created. To date all the code changes in our DSP controlled subwoofers has been done in conjunction with an amp or woofer modification. This means the code in isolation would not be a favourable thing to change.
EP500 software can be updated if an update of the code on its own was to be created. To date all the code changes in our DSP controlled subwoofers has been done in conjunction with an amp or woofer modification. This means the code in isolation would not be a favourable thing to change.