This is my first post, and as most first time offenders, I will start with a question. I am building my dream home and pre-wired the great room for 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1. I have decided on Axiom speakers but need help on deciding which ones are right for me. I have exchanged emails with Alan on a few occasions, but thought I would consult with the other gurus on this forum. Here are the particulars.

The great room is 17'X21' with 12 ft ceiling, 3 walls and adjacent to open foyer (with 14ft ceiling). The TV will be on the 21' wall which means seating position will be appox. 14' from TV.

I had decided to go with the M60s and QS8s, and eventually get a sub. The intention being to eventually move this system in the basement where the main listening room will be approx. 27'x26'x9, with open space on 2 sides, giving approx. a total of 1,300sq/ft (11,800 cu/ft). However, the HT probably won't be setup in the basement for 5-7 years.

When we move the HT to the basement, I would probably set up smaller speakers in the great room, mostly for listening to music and a bit of TV. I was thinking of having something like the M22 with a sub and moving the M60 or M80s to the basement HT room.

My question: How would the M22s do in my great room with the QS8s and good sub (SVS or HSU)? Would they be able to hold up pretty good? I'm thinking that the M60/80s might be obtrusive in the great room, but would definitely be needed in the basement. Also, maybe by then, there will be an M90 that would be even more appropriate for the huge HT room! So do you think I would see a huge difference right now (in the great room) between:
- M22s + good sub
- M60s and maybe a sub
- M80s and no sub (because of current budget constraints).

Are M22s and sub as good as towers for music listening? I think that for esthetic reasons, the M22/sub combo would be best, but I do not wish to be shortchanged on performance. Then again, we have 2 very young children and do not crank the volume much anymore.

Thanks a bunch.

Rocky

Hi Rocky

That's a nice size room with high ceilings. Any of these speakers will be good, but I think you could get the full benefit of M60s or M80s up front. VP150 in the middle. The WAF (wife acceptance factor) is higher with QS8 surround speakers than the boxes, so you may want to go with the Qs in the side and back surround positions. Consensus here is that Hsus and SVS subs get you the best quality thunder for the buck. Consensus here is that you don't really need wires - use string.

The room you'll have this system in now is plenty big enough to enjoy the M60s or even the M80s. If getting the M80's means no sub, then I'd suggest you get the M60's and a good sub.

Here's my suggestion for your room now.

M60ti mains
VP150 center
QS8 surrounds
Hsu VTF-3 sub

I'd if buget is an issue, skip the 7.1 and stick with 5.1 for now. A subwoofer is FAR more important than those extra two channels in the rear.

This setup would move perfectly into a larger room down the road.

I've had both the M22's and M60's and your room would be better served with the M60's.

Wow!!! I have been lurking on this board for about 2 months now. I am honored to have 2x6 and spiffnme reply to my first post.

Although the house is wired for 7.1 I will be going with 5.1 for now. The 2 additional lines are hidden behind the drywall and will stay there until I upgrade the receiver, which BTW is a HK AVR30 (non digital).

I realize that the M60/80s would be better for me, but from a purely esthetic point, the M22 would suit us better. However, as I said before, I still want the performance. If you guys think the 60s are the way to go, then that's the way I'm going. I might wait a little for the new HSU sub (STF). Would the VTF-2 do fine, or should I just go for its big brother? I do like the looks of the SVS tube sub though, but have not discussed that part with the wife yet.

I'll keep you guys posted.

BTW, the only reason I looked at Axiom is that I heard them about 3 years ago when helping my brother-in-law getting a HT after his divorce. I thought these were just some cheap boxes, from a small local shop (I'm in Ontario). However, I was blown away with the sound. The name somehow stuck with me and I looked them up a couple of months ago. I have had nothing but good service from Amie and Alan. Amie even sent me a sample piece of the boston cherry finish so I could compare with my hardwood. Very cool!

Lager,
Rocky

I got the SVS 20-39, and it is a truly wonderful thorugh enormous sub. Sleeping on the porch for a while wasn't so bad.

The SVS box subs now come in different finishes, so that helps with the WAF.
I have M22's and they do actually produce good bass for music, it is not hard, gut-thumping bass, but it is there, you will not miss anything in the music, you just may not feel it as much. A sub is helpful and adds a lot, especially to HT, but you will be surprised how good the 22's sound without using a sub. I actually prefer no sub when listening to 2 channel music. If you just want to listen to music and not rock out at ridiculously loud volumes, the 22's will make you very happy. Then you can add a sub later. However, in a HT environment, a sub is a must, because movies go down really low, even with M80's you will need a sub.
So I would recommend the 22's now, and when you move to the basement, get 80's or 60's.

The M60's(or 80's) are definately the better speaker for a room that size.

If it's a cylinder sub you like, Hsu makes them as well. (SVS designs are based on Hsu's subs). You're room could certainly handle the TN-1220HO from Hsu. If you like the Rosewood look. The VTF-3R (down firing Rosewood version of the VTF-3) is actually on sale for $849. (There's a code you need to post at checkout to get the discount)

You wouldn't by chance care like to share that code now would you???

"AVS"

It's a special they're running over on those "other" boards. The banner pops up every once in awhile.

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The M60's(or 80's) are definately the better speaker for a room that size.
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Thanks guys!
I also received a message from Alan who like most of you suggested the M60 or M80 for my room. He wrote "Incidentally, there has been a slight modification to the M80 towers such that I now unreservedly recommend them for large or medium-size rooms. The M60s come very close but they don't have the same bass extension and output."

So now I'm really thinking about the M80 before they are out of the factory outlet later today. My only concern is how close from the wall can I keep them? What about the M60? Can they sit closer. Since the towers are already 17-19 deep, I can imagine having them sticking out almost 4 feet into my living room.

Edit: I just looked at the Owner's Manual for the AVR30 and it will only allow 6-16Ohms speakers in the front. That rules out the M80 and made the decision for me. I guess I will have to live with smaller towers for a while.

Thanks,
Rocky

Rocky, many multi-channel receivers don't "officially" support a 4-ohm load. But the vast majority of them will actually have no problems driving 4-ohm speakers. Especially, the M80 is a very "benign" 4-ohm load according to third-party measurements (i.e., does not dip below the nominal 4 ohms with relatively flat phase angles). Taken together with its high efficiency/sensitivity, I would predict that your receiver will have no problems whatsoever.

Of course, the size issue seems like a major decision factor for you, but I would not exclude the M80 just because it is a 4-ohm speaker.

In reply to:

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"Incidentally, there has been a slight modification to the M80 towers such that I now unreservedly recommend them for large or medium-size rooms..."

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Now, THAT piqued my curiosity!

Alan, care to elaborate what was slightly modified on the M80???

Is this slight mod what was being referenced in regard to the ones that were on sale at Ebay?...people were going back and forth about if they were the old or new configuration.

In reply to:

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Here's my suggestion for your room now.

M60ti mains
VP150 center
QS8 surrounds
Hsu VTF-3 sub

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I would agree with this also. In 5 - 7 years you're gonna want something new for the basement, not bring the LR speakers downstairs. Deal with what's good for you now. I had the M22's for a little bit and really liked them, but went with M60's because of HK's flexible x-overs and I wanted to listen to music w/o a sub. The wife may like the M22's better and you'd be more than happy. I also went with the SVS PB1 w/ ice white finish. It's pretty sweet. Some think it looks like a fridge, but I think it looks better than a big black box (or cylinder.) Performace keeps up with the looks. Good luck.

I did it!!! Thanks to all who chimed in over that last few weeks. I have been in touch with Amie for a while and finally decided on the M60s and QS8s. I ordered them yesterday and they will be delivered on Nov. 28th which is the date we move in the new house!

Although I was really considering the STF-3 and the SVS20-39, I have not ordered a sub yet as I'm really worried about extra taxes, duty and UPS ridiculous "brokerage fee" on cross border shopping. I read somewhere that Axiom might be working on a new sub but have not heard anything more. That would be sweet!

The RPTV (Sony 51") will also be delivered on moving day. I don't know if I'll be able to move much stuff if I'm busy hooking up the HT!

Thanks a bunch!
Rocky

Well the Axioms arrived a day early but the Purolator guy left them with the neighbours. I hooked them up and was completely blown away. After hearing some comments about how clear these speakers were, I was a little worried about a lack of bass.... but no way! The bass is all there and solid and tight and heavy... and I'm a bass player!!! The M60s sound absolutely amazing. I haven't really put the QS8s to the test yet, but plan on watching LOTR soon.

BTW, the Sony FPTV is pretty impressive too. Even with just an antenna, the picture is very clear. I am more than happy with the purchases. Thanks a million folks!

Rager,
Rocky

Yet another true believer.