I'm considering the Epic 60 system, with a vp150 and vtf-2 (or stf-3) sub. But the receiver is still a matter of question.
Unfortunately there's not a local dealer that stocks HK. I get the general impression that the HK and Denon will both perform and well and are both used by members here. What I'm mainly interested in here is the "versus" aspect. Is HK generlly considered "warmer" than Denon? My tastes are generally considered "bright" I guess, but I'm worried about paring a bright receiver with a bright set of speakers.
What are your thoughts on this?
I have a Denon 3802 with the same speakers (except for the sub) and I'm quite happy with the sound. Unfortunately, I haven't heard an HK receiver, but I would assume from reading others reviews that it wouldn't be "warmer" compared to the Denon. Denon is very "neutral" in my opinion, therefore makes a nice match for the Axiom's. If someone tells you that the Denon is not "musical" (which I've heard a lot), don't believe them. The Denon can produce clarity and an open & airy soundtage.
In reply to:
Is HK generlly considered "warmer" than Denon?
What are your thoughts on this?
Urban legend and/or internet myth and perhaps a bit of "power of suggestion"
. I have a denon AVR-3200 receiver and a yamaha RX-V 2400. I hear no difference between the two when run in "straight" (no processing) mode. Even with YPAO(EQ) engaged on the Yamaha "warm vs. bright" in a non issue.
I think the more important issues with receivers is having enough power and features for your needs.
The terms "bright"(lively sounding, perhaps due to treble tip-up by designer) and "warm"(upper-bass/lower-mid weighted) generally refer to speaker traits. Bright or warm sounding speakers may sound appealing but are not accurate (see/hear Axiom speakers for very accurate, neutral sound). Highly accurate/neutral speakers are sometimes mistakenly refered to as "bright".
The goal of most electronics designers is to allow the equipment to pass the most unadultrated(not bright nor warm but just neutral) signal possible. If an amp or pre-amp adds anything at all to the sound, although it may sound very pleasing as in the case of tubed equipment, it's either poorly disigned or intentionaly designed that way(for whatever reason
) or there is something wrong with it.
Is there a Circuit City near by? They carry H/K now.
Compared a H/K 325 to a Denon 2803. I listened hard for the warmth vs. brightness difference and while I thought I heard something, they sounded pretty close.
Features and power were the real difference. Denon had more rear connections A/B mains switch and better remote. HK had much better bass management, a flavor of Logic 7 that I like better than the Dolby and DTS matrixing, and most importantly for me, much more punch in music and home theater.
RH, my thoughts are in line with Mike's(mwc). Don't worry about not having a nearby HK dealer because if you expected to evaluate it by listening to the "sound", frankly you'd just be fooling yourself. Lots of things can make differences in the sound that's heard, but the amplifier in the receiver is almost never one of them. In solid state amps, when the frequency response is ruler-flat from 20-20,000Hz, they don't audibly change the sound. There's none that add "warmth", " brightness", "punch" or whatever. The recordings, speakers and listening room are responsible for the sound heard.
One feature in a receiver that can make a difference is the automatic room and speaker equalization that some Pioneer(MCACC)and Yamaha(YPAO)models have and you should give them serious consideration.
The 325 refurb's are going for just under $400 shipped from H/K's ebay auctions. Comes with full 2 year warranty. I personaly think that is a great price.
I have never heard the receiver myself, but I hear it packs a punch for such a 'small' receiver. Remember, H/K's amps consistently measure above their ratings, and rarely, if ever, below.
I'm glad to know that you actually own both receivers in order to make a fair judgement. I could only go by what I've personally heard. When I bought my first Denon, I compared it to a Yamaha and I definitely heard that the Yamaha was brighter. However, it was a "sales" guy was the one doing the switching. For all I know, he could have had them on different settings. I do know for sure that both sounded way better than my old Sony!
Damn, I am happy.
Just won the 525 straight from H/K on ebay. $455 + $35 shipping.
I have been flipping back and forth over 4 different receivers, all in the $400 to $500 range. I was dead set on the Denon 2803 at ecost for $459 shipped. They ran out today. I see the 525 at only $445 and a 325 at $350, and see two 525's already sold for well over $500, and I was just hoping everyone was burnt out on it. The 325 went for $388, no one else bid on the 525 after me!
When researhing my purchase, I did not have the oportunity to do an A/B comparison with these 2 receivers either but I did do a A/B with HK 525 and Onkyo TXSR-700 using the same speakers (Klipsh I believe) which are very "bright" and I did hear a distinct subdued tonal quality in the HK vrs the the Onkyo. That led me to another store where I was able to A/B the Onkyo with the Denon AVR-2803 and both sounded quite close which led me to look at build quality, performance specifications, and features. The Denon 2803 won out and I'm extremely pleased with it and the M60's VP-150,QS8's and VTF-2. The only thing I've added is an MX-500 remote from Home Theater Master which has brought the whole package together with stunning results. Don't worry though, you'll be happy with with wither and the Axioms!
I have listened to so many receivers the last month or so. The one thing I noticed: where one might be 'brighter' or 'laid back' or whatever when compared to different receiver, each was good no matter what.
It did boil down to two though, the 2803 and the 525.
This is a tip that I have left before in this forum..... For those of you contemplating purchasing the Denon 2803, 6th Ave Electronics (Denon Authorized -check the Denon website) is offering the 3803 for the same price as the 3802 at around $650 shipped because they are out of 3802's . That puts the 3803 price range at almost the same level as the 2803.
If you go to the website, the price of the 3803 will still show $999. You have to call and speak to a salesman and ask to be upgraded. I did this about a month ago, and I am still seeing posts on other forums and the deal is still going on.
I.M.O. there is no better deal out there. This is a brand new (not refurb) 3803 for $650 shipped!
www.6ave.com
I agree that is a great price, however, the 2803 can be had for as little as $460 shipped(refurb) from an authorized dealer.
I wouldn't spend over $500 because this is a temporary receiver, I will be replacing the amps in about a year, then will be replacing the actual receiver with a good pre.
I see no point in spending anything over $500 in my situation.
John,
I have a Yamaha htr-5280 and my son has an rxv-495, but we both agree that his receiver has a brighter sound than mine. Surely, the cheaper receivers seems to lack the tonal quality of the upper models. I'm not sure if I can be convinced that there aren't any differences between brand x, y or z when there seems to be tonal differences within models of the same brand.
Thanks for the replies everyone. The whole thing seems to lack beautiful and decisive science.
I went to demo a 525 and 3803 at different stores. The 525 was hooked up to some really nice Cambridge, 300 watt $2000 pair of speakers, and sounded really nice. The center was underwhelming but the speakers and their integrated subs delivered clothes rumbling bass. At reference levels it was loud but not crazy loud. The 3803 was hooked up to some shitty speakers, and of course the salesman was a jackass. I prefer the 525 aesthetically but the video upconverstion of the 3803 is appealing. Does anyone know how it scales 4:3 compositve/svideo signals into 16:9? My TV can't do component 720 at 4:3, only 16:9. I'm guessing it adds black bars. How does the 525 work in the situation--with multiple low res/composite/s-video inputs and one component out?
WHAT does video up conversion do?
in same boat as you are1111
Hawk, video upconversion means that the receiver converts multiple video inputs so that they can use just one output cable to the TV. For example, many will upconvert a composite video input to S-video so that only a S-video output cable to the TV would be necessary. A few receivers will upconvert both composite and S-video inputs to a component video output. Note that this doesn't mean that the quality is increased, just that only one type of output cable to the TV has to be used.
Who told you they werent musical? They IMO are one of the most musical in the mid-hi price range...but ill always love Rotel too
