My current setup is Acoustic Research PS428 towers (with built in 8" subs), an AR AR2C center, and 4 energy take ones for the 4 surrounds. I'm leaning towards either the m60 or m80, a Vp150, and QS8 surrounds. The room is 30'x14'x7'. Right now I've only got about $1000, but I'll be upgrading in stages.

I guess what I'm looking for is opinions on what would make the most sense to upgrade first. I'd really like new towers but I'd lose the 8" powered subs and would have to go back to the energy sub that was included in the take 5.1 package. I guess I'm the only one that can decide this, so my other question:

The speakers can only be about 12 feet apart, and I'll be sitting nearly 18 feet back. How will the imaging be at these distances? I've read they should be the distance.

For this size room, should I go with the m60 or m80? And when I get a sub, the HSU VTF-2 or VTF-3? The VTF-3 is a bit more then I'd like to spend, but it would make a big difference I'd wait and get it.

not sure on which speaker you should go for(but seems like with that size room bigger is better....maybe)

my 2 cents is to go take a look at SVS subs. bigger and better is the motto with subs though

I have similar setup, I have energy encore system with a self built Admire Shiva sub w/ 250W plate. I feel that I need better speakers however I am short of budget. I won't even think about the M22 cuz I don't think the bookshelves would have too much advantage over the energy encores. I want M60, I want something big. I might sell the 5 pcs of encore and get only M60 and vp150, then use my crappy set of KLH 3way bookshelf for surround ($20 from bestbuy). Then when I have money, I'll get the qs8. But someone mentioned that you can get better deal if you buy 5pcs w/out the sub from axiom, 5% off or something like that. So, buying some and not buying some might not be a good idea.

You've got a really good sized room. I think the M80's would work well for you. (I know the M60's would work, but with a room that big, the M80's may be an even better option.

I also agree that a Hsu is the way to go. A room that big should have the VTF-3. (the newest models will have some new upgrades)

As far as order of upgrades goes...

1) mains
2/3) sub
2/3) center
4) surrounds

sitting 18' back-the m80s are fine,and will be a HUGE improvement over the ar speakers you have ,the ar428s were ok for the money but the m80s are a whole different ballgame...ron

Do you think I'll be okay on bass with the m80 and energy 8" sub untill I can get an HSU sub? That's the only thing holding me back from getting the towers first.

quote- But someone mentioned that you can get better deal if you buy 5pcs w/out the sub from axiom, 5% off or something like that.

is this true? because if thats true then that would really be awsome

I ordered the Epic 80 system without the sub. I ordered all b-stock. I got 10% off for the b-stock plus another 5% off from Amie for buying a "system", even though it was b-stock without a sub.

wow.. that's good news, I don't mine b-stock (as long as it's just cosmetic demage) 15% off M60+vp150+qs8 = $1377, not bad not bad, I'll need to budget that soon.

btw, how do you order b-stock

i dont know what that energy 8" sub is capable of,only you can say weather or not it is good enough for now,or not.your ar428s have the abillity to play pretty loud but the m80s do play louder,try your energy sub with your system now and cut back the sub volume on your ars.if you find it to be be liveable then go for the m80s and then decide weather you need to upgrade your sub or center channel next.if you like the ars a little bit,the m80 will put a ear to ear smile on your face....good luck with your decision....ron

My "b-stock was (and IS) flawless. There is no cosmetic damage I can see. To order, just go to the store and click on the "specials" page. The thing is, it is best to call Axiom, talk to Amie, and tell her what you want in b-stock. you may need to wait until they run the particular speakers you want, but I ordered an entire system in cherry and it was at my doorstep 3 days later.

Oh, those specials are b-stock, I didn't know. I thought they just wanna put some speakers on sale. Those always come w/ less flavor colors like maple and beech. Do they really have that many b-stock to sell? I mean, anyone would want b-stock if it's 10% less. Anyway, I'll give Amie a call when I am ready to purchase.

I'm going to upgrade myself but will now have to put it off until after Christmas. I would personally upgrade in this order.

1) Mains (prefer M80's - better definition and tight bass, do a search for my post)
2) Center ( especially if you watch a lot of movies)
3) Surrounds
4) Sub - Hsu or SVS (I would live with your current sub for now and upgrade this last)

M80 is good but not regular receivers have the power to push it.

I agree but the place I went to had a Pioneer Elite and also an HK AVR525 powering the M80's. Both have dropped down in price now since new models have come out.

I would go with the M80's, and your Energy sub until you can upgrade. The M80's do OK on base. Probably keep them Large with your sub. Then upgrade the center, that will definitly make a big difference. Then I would upgrade to a SVS or HSU sub. Then get the qs-8's to complete your surround sound. Keep an eye on the factory outlet. There's M80's available right now! When your next grand is available, you could get the center and sub.
The bad thing, if you can call it that, is upgraditis. After you get the M80's, you want everything else, then a new receiver, amp, etc....

Good Luck,

Rick