From Surfing the forums, I've gleaned that CompUSA recently had the HSU STF-2 on sale at $350. However, a search of their web site comes up empty, and most posters seem to indicate that their local store is out of stock. Anyone know if this was a one shot deal, or if CompUSA will be restocking at that attractive price?

Well, according to the HSU forums, they should not have sold them online at all. Its against their contract with HSU.

http://hsuresearch.com/forum/showthread.php?s=80dba7fe4f562187bca1456c6692d392&threadid=359&highlight=compusa

Well that explains why I couldn't find it on their web site. Thanks sputnikv8!

I haven't checked my local CompUSA. I just assumed they'd be out of stock like everywhere else. I'll check first thing tomorrow.

They are not supposed to sell online, nor at that price, so do not be suprised to find it at $400 like at hsuresearch.com.

I suspect your are right JimmyTango. If you check out the URL that sputnikv8 provided above, and follow the thread to the end, you'll see there was quite a brouhaha about the INTERNET sales and price. The last post leaves a tiny bit of hope, but we'll just have to wait and see. As usual I'm a day late and a dollar short. Timing is everything.

i heard that after the online sales fiasco comp usa hasnt had HSU's in stock at all. i went to my comp usa and they had not even heard of hsu

Well, I bought one for $349 at a CompUSA today, so it looks like you have to check each store individually.

Today I picked up an STF-2 at the $349 sale price at the South store here in Austin -- and the sales dude said he had 5 more in stock. He said these had come in sometime over the last 2-3 weeks. I know when I was there browsing a few weeks ago, they only had the floor model and one box in stock. The extras came from somewhere.

Looks like Hsu put the cabosh on CompUSA posting the sales price online, but meanwhile CompUSA is still moving their remaining stock (pure speculation on my part, but what else explains it?). Whatever the reason, I know that right now there are 5 Hsu STF-2's at the South Austin CompUSA, even though none are listed for that store -- or any CompUSA outlet -- online. Have to imagine there are more at other stores around the country. Perhaps you could even get your local store to order the stock from someone else, in person or over the phone.

Thanks for the heads up! I purchased mine today as well, at the 349 price point. They didn't have any of them out on the floor -- I had to ask, and they were happy to get one out of the back for me. So, check out your local stores, if you're interested in this sub. Looks like I'll have to postpone getting a new center channel...

WEll! I went to my local CompUSA today, and they didn't know what the blazes I was talking about. Never heard of HSU. He checked on the computer, and came up with exactly zip. He suggested that I check back in a couple of weeks, saying that they would be carrying more home audio products in the near future. Having a severe case of upgraditis, I totally ignored him, went online, and ordered directly from HSU. Yes, the price is $399 for the STF-2, BUT.......no shipping charge (if my invoice is to be believed). Had I bought it at CompUSA, it would have been $349 plus the $27.92 (8%) tax, for a total of 376.92. that's $22 less. Now $22 is $22. But, I can live with that price difference. My profound thanks to HSU for waiving the shipping cost. It will be interesting to see if CompUSA continues to carry HSU, and if they do, at what price. If it helps HSU, I hope so. Glad you other guys could find it locally.

yah
i forgot to tell you they arent charging for shipping on the stf-2 and the vtf-2
you got lucky
shipping on the hsu might cost more then the actual sub!

Shipping, when they are charging, is only $25.00.

Over on the forums at www.hsuresearch.com, there has been some discussion of this. It seems that Hsu Research, which is making its first foray into Big Box retail channels, was surprised by CompUSA's aggressive pricing and online marketing.

At any rate, the STF-2s are for sale at CompUSA retail stores, but I don't think you'll find them advertised online. I just bought one today for $350. (Unfortunately it was DOA, and I'll exchange it tomorrow.)

The DOA problem aside, I was pleasantly surprised to find the Hsu product available for immediate purchase at an aggressive price at a store like CompUSA. But after a frustrating day spent dealing with retail bots in several stores (including Fry's and Best Buy -- "Huh, What's a crossover?"), I am very glad the direct-sale online marketing channel is still around at Hsu and here at Axiom.

Just hope the oversized CompUSA tail doesn't start wagging the dog.

BTW, I just ordered my M22s tonight!

one bad thing about HSU is the customer service. i ordered a stf-2 and there were no tracking numbers, no confirmation email(an email, but it was more of an advertisment), and i have never been able to contact HSU despite making about 10 phone calls. email respones are usually one sentence long. The customer service is nothing like axiom.
i guess not all internet direct businesses have caught on to the customer service trend

Believe me, I'm not defending HSU. I pre-ordered my first sub from them. So, I have no history.

However, I called their 1800 line twice last week to check on whether the new model has shipped and she explained the situation completely.

So, I'm not sure why you aren't able to get through to them. I can't comment on the tracking info, but, am under the impression I will receive an email stating the number, etc.

hmm
i ordered stf-2 on monday. either they took all of last week off(including weekends), or i am just unlucky. Tell me if you get a tracking number. i am still waiting on mine. i sent an email asking about that and i didnt get a response.

but, they apparently make very good quality subs.

i guess i am so eager to get my stf-2 that my impatience has gotten the best of me. oh well.

hopefully it comes soon

Before I bought my VTF-2 I had several email conversations with Dr. Hsu himself. He always answered all my questions and responded very quickly. I'm sure it being the holidays has things slowed down quite a bit.

I ordered a Vtf2 from Hsu. I also had correspondance with Dr. Hsu. It took a day or two between Emails. I ordered my sub over the phone and got a confirmation email as well as a tracking number which I did use to track. Also a day or so after ordering. It took my sub about a week to arrive. I live in Ohio, so if closer to Hsu, you will probably get sooner. They use ground shipping.

Check out this thread on the HSU forum regarding the STF-2. I just found I had this problem as well. Don't know how widespread it is or if it only affects the units from Compusa.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=419

i finally got in contact with HSU. a sweet sounding older man picked up the phone. i assume it was HSU himself. anyways, he couldnt find my tracking number so he said he would call back. he called back about 20 minutes later with my tracking number. i guess the holidays delayed the shipping because they sent it out last mondy(30th), but it wont be here till wednesday.
anyways, it wasnt bad dealing with HSU, it just wasnt like the expierence i had with axiom.

i really cant wait though


emiburke-that is a very interesting thread. i will cross my fingers. did it happen to you too? Spiff-any thoughts?

Hurm...

That certainly doesn't sound like the usualy Hsu customer service. I hope they get that straightened out. They've got a very good reputation as having terrific CS...they certainly don't what to ruin that! Telling customers to fix it themselves is not cool.

How do you pronounce Hsu?
Soo?
Ha soo?

Sue, like the girls name.

Actually, it is more of a combination of "Sue" and "shoe".

Without tying my tongue in a knot, how the heck do you combine Sue and Shoe?

Hold the tip of your tongue between your thumb and forefinger and you'll get the idea.

Thankyou,
A subtle "H" sound along with Sue

I talked to HSU this morning. I ordered my STF-2 last Friday (Jan. 2), and over the weekend got to wondering (because of some relatively recent posts on the HSU forum) if the STF-2 was in stock, or still on backorder. The phone was answered by a male whom I couldn't understand. I'm not sure his greeting was in English. I responded with "hello"? (A clever rejoinder, huh?) He said "hello." (Ah! Another clever fellow.) I proceeded to explain who I was and why I was calling. While not being the warmest, most outgoing fellow I've spoken with, and though sounding bored by my inquiry, he quickly reassured me that the STF-2's were currently in stock, and, when asked, said that mine would probably ship in the next couple of days. Though not what I would call "a perfect customer service experience," my questions were, at least, answered. Stay tuned! The final judgement will be made, when I discover the accuracy (or lack thereof) of his time estimate. Another requirement for a passing grade is a timely email with a tracking number. This is an absolute must. One likes to be at home, waiting, when a $400 item is being delivered. I'll post with the results.

Yes, shipping during holidays gets messed up. The New Year did not count as a business day(of course). However, nor does the day after(Friday). Not only that, but Saturday and Sunday do not, either. So 4 days in a row that do not count for regular ground shipments.

Sucks, huh?

I think I spoke to that guy every time I called HSU about my VTF-2! I know exactly who you mean. Customer service didn't seem up to Axiom standards (not much is though), but I got the sub and it's been working great for me ever since. This is not to say the customer service was bad, just not Axiomlike.

Hawkson101, yes I did find the problem. I tried the suggested fix, but I was still feeling air coming through, so I decided to just return it to compusa, which worked out ok. The HSU rep implied changes were made so maybe the recent orders are fine,or it was just a problem with one batch?
Now, my problem is whether to get another HSU sub right away or wait and use my old sub for awhile. I could just take the $378 recovered from compusa and buy that axiom VP150 I wanted to match my new M22's. (purchases must be spread out due to WAF...)

I got my email from FedEx saying my STF-2 shipped yesterday (the 7th). Unfortunately, it's not going to arrive until next Tuesday (the 13th). I am in Ohio, so that time frame is understandable. Anyway, so far so good.

Hey, just want to follow up on the concerns about defective STF-2s from CompUSA. The specific problem described on the Hsu forums surfaced (somewhat amusingly) when people were watching the aquarium-tapping scene in Finding Nemo, which blew cones or housing or something on at least two people's new subs. (Is Nemo a sub-killer?)

Well, just want to report that when we watched Finding Nemo on our CompUSA-bought STF-2 this week, several times, the only problem was that several pictures rattled off the wall. The pane on one of those pictures broke (from the fall, of course), but the sub is fine. Great, in fact.

Birdman

ask HSU for a replacement picture frame

I thought I would reply with something here, since I was one of the posts on the Hsu board. The problem with the STF-2 is that the seal on the driver is not wide enough to adequately seal the driver to the enclosure. Hsu recommended that I go to Home Depot, buy 3/8" weather stripping and install it myself. Since dealing with Axiom was my first experience with Internet audio sales, I was obviously taken aback by Hsu's customer service, even though Dr. Hsu replied directly to me via email about this problem. Obviously not all companies are as responsive as Axiom. I don't think that any consumer should have to make any type of personal repair to any item right out of the box, no less buy their own parts. CompUSA took back the defective unit, and I've been trying to find out if their new incoming stock has the same problem or if it has been corrected. Since I couldn't get a definate answer from Hsu, I just ordered an EP-175 from Axiom, since CompUSA is out of stock and had no clue what I was referring to in the first place. I would add my praise for Axiom customer service, because I called several times before placing my original speaker order, and they were always receptive and forethcoming with answers and advise.

if i can get my hands on finding nemo i can tell you if my factory direct is defective

once you used finding nemo on your STF-2 was there a residual problem that was noticeable on all bass material? I am afraid to try it if it will permanently break my sub.

I purchased my STF-2 right before the holidays, and it sat there in the box unopened until this past Monday. I had been reading about the problem on the Hsu forum, so I sent an email to Hsu, which is when I got the reply from Dr. Hsu. Once I had it hooked up with my new Axioms, the first thing I played was Finding Nemo...it is scene 25 I believe. (I played it enough to remember, if that tells you anything)
When I heard the "distortion", I just packed it back up and took it back to CompUSA. I didn't need to play anything else. Other posts have said that the distortion was as loud as the bass, but I didn't experience it at that level. Mine was just loud enough to be noticeable. I can't see how this one scene would damage your sub, since the defect was a manufacturing one at the factory. Let me know what you find when you test yours...

Well i don't have a Hsu sub but i do have the Axiom ep350 and as most others, just received Finding Nemo for Christmas.

I will pop in the dvd later and see how that scene plays out with the EP350.

That scene on my VTF-2 was very cool! The scene of the sunken submarine falling was indeed stirring as well. My entire floor was vibrating. No rattles, or noises that didn't belong though.

ditto for me. I was another poster on that thread and returned mine to compusa as well. Lest we start yet another internet myth ("Darla, the SUB KILLER")...

My GUESS is a bad manufacturing run. I called tech support and he knew right away what I was talking about and told me to visit home depot...
If you have the issue, it is visibly (and touch) noticable, as described in some of the posts. You visually see that one or two of the screws don't attach to enough surface area to get a good seal -- they just don't look right compared to the other screws. You feel a strong burst of air in this area during an extended low bass scene like Darla's. Now I ain't no expert but I don't know that a sub is supposed to do that. You hear rattling during this. In hindsight, I recall that it just don't sound right either when doing a frequency sweep and it get's lower (under 40hz or so).
By the way, I did attempt the self-repair and still felt some air. Plus, I got myself further confused after the initial re-assembly when nothing at all could be heard from the sub. After another dis-assemble I found that one of the leads was disconnected. At this point, I just said screw it and returned it.
I since re-sequenced my upgrade strategy and just ordered a new VP150 center. I'll replace the sub later...

Which now leads me to a question suited to this forum... all along I was just looking for a sub that was econimical with good musical detail and accuracy (to fill in my M22 mains). I do watch a lot of movies, but I live in a condo and wasn't really looking to shake the foundations anyway. I succumbed to the buzz and tried the hsu. When I do decide to get the sub again, I may still go with that. But I guess I am more curious now as to what is wrong with the axiom subs and why do many axiomites have the hsu, svs, etc. ???

The more I hear about this STF-2 problem the more it sounds like simply a bad batch. The part that disturbs me though is that Hsu, known for great customer service, has been telling customers to fix it themselves. I'm curious to know if they're telling everyone that, or just the people who bought their subs at CompUSA that the "illegally" low price?

As to your question about Axiom subs. I don't think anyone has ever said that the Axiom subs are not good. The issue is that there are subs as good and better (Hsu being one of them) that cost less. Axiom owners are notoriously "cheap". We want the very best, for the very lowest price. That's why we own Axiom speakers! That being the case, Hsu (and a few others) fit that bill very nicely.

just as the rage is about axiom speakers, the rage about subfwoofers is HSU and SVS. This hype gets perpetuated further as more people by the HSU/SVS and more and more people recomend it. The reviews i have read about the axiom sub suggest that the sub is better then average, but it doesnt have that special quality that makes axioms and HSU/SVS what they are..

On the topic of HSU subs my STF-2 is a fairly capable. It can get fairly loud and for the money it is pretty good. But i might be returning it. I really like my bass(its the only reason i got a stereo system). I am going to upgrade to something that when the bass hits, you feel it in your feet and your chest and it makes you take a step back. That is the kind of bass i am looking for.

Hawk...you're definately coming out of the closet as a bass junky. If you want bass that "hits" you, and still want it distortion free, and tight, you're going to be dropping a big pile of cash. Loud sloppy bass, on the other hand is easy to find. Do you have any possiblities on your list yet?

my first option is probably the TN 1220. I can fit that in my room on its side. The SVS subs are too big to fit anywhere. My other possibilities are to wait until the summer and get a DIY. I am willing to spend 1000 dollars on a sub. For me, that is the most important part of my system. The klipsch 4.1 i had before had pretty good highs, but not enough sub.

I dont know what i will do but i will keep looking for a while. You never know. i might get accustomed to the bass of the HSU and i may keep it after all

Ahhh...the 1220HO. When I finally own a home rather than rent, I'll have a pair of those.

Curtis has heard them, and they immediately became his "dream" sub. I've not been so lucky.

I did hear a Rel that was really impressive with extremely low tones, but it couldn't keep up with anything fast. I first heard it listening to some DCD, but when I threw in a Prince album (which certainly shouldn't be a strain on a sub) the bass was really loose and sloppy. (And that's a $3000+ sub!)

I heard dual TN1220s last year at CES.

Oh. My. God!!

If you want to be kicked in the chest and watch your pant legs flap in the wind, those suckers will do it!

Ahhh....dual TN1220HO's....

yes...tight, clean, and A LOT of output!

I heard them in the Hsu Research demo room. The room has the standard office drop ceiling with those 2 foot square tiles. The output could literally raise those tiles! But I think equally as impressive was the quality of the bass.

Hawkson, I suggest you hit a couple of stereo shops and listen to subs. You might be looking for a different kind of bass.

For those interested in the kind of bass that really moves and feels instead of just 'sounding' like bass, here's a simple thought:
Get a larger driver!

You need to move ALOT of air to make bass. The larger the driver, the more air moved. You can potentially find some custom made subs with 30" drivers but from what i hear, the drivers are rare and incredibly expensive.
Velodyne usually has an 18" monster of some sort in their offerings but to really attain such a level of bass, you need the cash. Don't kid yourself,
Finding "kick you in the chest and wave your shirt with unseen air" kind of bass has to come from either size or quantity (e.g. more than one sub in the system) and for that you need serious money!

Personally i'm more than thrilled with the amount of LFE that my EP350 puts out. The gain is only set at 25% and it rumbles upwards 2 floors. The last time i had it set near 40%, we could no longer hear the dialogue or other effects (during a movie) at the time b/c the low end sound waves cancelled everything else out. The SPL actually felt like a 20' dive with inner ear compression.
If you can't hear anything but bass, then what's the point of listening to a speaker at all?
Just buy a subwoofer and forget the rest.

Out of curiousity Hawkson, if you like sub sounds so much, why bother with Axiom speakers? They do have a nice detailed upper end but their bass is very tight and described by some as 'thin'. Certainly not a speaker that someone like yourself is seemingly looking for.
Had you listened to anything from Paradigm? JBL? Cerwin Vega?
Just last year i actually recommended to a friend that he goes with Energy instead of Axiom. I knew the Axiom sound was not what he was looking for. He was also into the dance boppy music and was not planning on getting a subwoofer. His budget being as limited as it was, the M22s or M50s would not do it (without a sub). I believe he settled on the Energy C7s or C9s.

What about the VTF-3? Anybody have an impressino of that vis-a-vis Hawk's requirements? How about one of the big SVS box subs? I'm pretty happy with my Cambridge Soundworks Subwoofer 1 (12" woofer, 140 watt amp), but I don't think it does what he's looking for. And they don't make it any more, opting instead for crappy same as everyone else box subs.

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dance boppy music

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LOL! What in the world is that?

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If you can't hear anything but bass, then what's the point of listening to a speaker at all? Just buy a subwoofer and forget the rest.

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Now Chess, you should know that if you want to do it right you should take it a step further and get a vibrating recliner and one of those "Bass Shakers" to strap on . And if you really want to do the extreme ultimate experience you'll need one of these.

transcu-wha? Sounds like the next component on my list!

Just plug me in.

Hey i've seen those things in action. I had one on my shoulder after it was dislocated...for the second time.
I never used one for the third.

They are really quite neat.

Damn, I want one of those. That'd do me a world of good.

I own a VTF-3, and it has the same type of capabilities as a single TN1220.....just not quite as tight/clean.

Of the subs I have heard, I would only give it up for a TN1220.

TWO 1220HO's, right Curtis?

Ken, I have a VTF-3 but could you rephrase the question because I'm too tired of this thread to read down for the requirements.

Yeah...after thinking about it, going to one TN1220 would not be much of an upgrade. So two would do the trick.

I would like to hear the new VTF-3MKII though. I also understand that the new amp being used can be dropped right into previous generation VTF-3's.

What does MK stand for, anyway? (And I did Google for it)

He wants really, really earthshaking bass. And the STF-2 ain't doing it for him.

Miller & Kreisel Sound

even when applied to non M&K products? I've heard it applied to non-audio products as well. MKII seems to mean version 2, as far as I can tell.

Hawk, how about this:
http://www.decware.com/hwk15.htm

tempting... Ken's next woodworking project...

I had to use one for several years for back pain.

Oh! thats easy. Just see this post.

Yeah, I'll have that done for you in about 4 years or so. (given that I thought my current project would take a couple weekends, and it's been about 8 months since I started, you figure out how long it's gonna take me).

Sorry Peter I misunderstood. Yes indeed in VTF-3MK2, it's indeed Make 2, or the 2nd generation.

Well this thread has really started wandering around... But the latest post from jeff_p on the hsu forum thread is pretty interesting ( a reply from Dr. Hsu). I guess we were just beta testers for their new manufacturing processes and facilities.

Not sure that is a fair statement.

From reading Dr. Hsu's reply, it seems as though the QA procedure at the factory did not test for air leaks. He does say it has been changed now.

Yeah, but what about all those poor guys who have the defective units.

Really, how can they expect to keep customer confidence by telling them to go to Home Depot and get weather striping and do it yourself. That ain't right!

Speaking of things not being right, I found the whole idea of CompUSA selling subs a little odd to start with.

Beer.

Hey, this thread had everything else.

When I was trying to decide which sub to get between the STF2 and VTF2, I was recomended from Dr Hsu to get the VTF2. This was his words:

"the VTF2 has all the bugs worked out, the STF2 is in it's first production run, we are sure there will be some kinks to straighten out, for example some people feel the gain is too low. Future production runs will have the gain increased."

Obviously, the "gain" was just the beginning. I am happy with my purchase of the VTF2. I feel bad for all those with probs with the STF. I would of been upset, for sure. As everyone else I am surprised at Hsu response, as far as repairing the bad ones. I don't know much about the company other than this forum and forums I discovered through this forum where everyone else talked nothing but good about thier subs. Honostly, I don't think I would of bought a Hsu sub if all this happened before I bought mine. There are too many unknowns with a direct only like Axiom and Hsu. If I had a bad sub and they told me to fix it myself, I guarantee you, I would send it right back to them.

Peter, it's Mark(version)two.

I agree...the fix it yourself idea was not right. Would have been smarter to say, "you can try doing this to fix it yourself and get it working properly faster, or just send it back to us or CompUSA."

As big as a Hsu supporter I am, I do believe the early STF-2 problems do not reflect well. But once worked out, I am confident that the STF-2 has no competitor at the $400 mark.

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Honostly, I don't think I would of bought a Hsu sub if all this happened before I bought mine.

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I probably wouldn't have either but if it had happened that way I would have missed out on Joy of owning the VTF-3. It's one of the best audio purchases I've ever stumbled into.

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If I had a bad sub and they told me to fix it myself, I guarantee you, I would send it right back to them.

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Hell yes! in a heart beat. Excellent product or not.

Well, hopefully I'll be running out of stuff to say on this at this point, but I hope we've all at least heard enough to stop incriminating poor Darla in the STF-2 issue. It sure ain't her fault. Heck, she's already got enough of a bad rep from those fishies...

Boy I am late finding out about all of this. I had read about some of the problems people were having with some of these first STF-2's, but this is too much. And to top it all off, people were actually told to fix it themselves. I am angry just reading about this, if it was me on the other end of that conversation I would have been livid. I own a VTF-2 and love it but after reading this thread and the one at the Hsu board, thankfully I have never had any problems with it.

Well yes they do have competition at the $400 mark, it's called diy .

If you have a defective STF-2, then Hsu is a Do It Yourself item...since the manufacturer is advising that you fix it yourself with your own parts from Home Depot.

Well this is a fine how-do-ya-do.

When I was searching for subs I did homework and had it boiled down to SVS and HSU. I went with a HSU STF3 because of all the love for their previous products, comparing the prices of the two, etc. Now all heck has broken loose and I'm afraid of what I'm going to be getting today at my doorstep.

Please oh please let me have a good "gasket".

So they're shipping the STF-3 now? I was all set to purchase the STF-3 back in September when it was supposed to have a September release date, then it kept getting pushed back and back. I understand obviously, they kept pushing back the STF release dates to get them right. Well, even though it appears the STF-2 might not have been totally ready for market, I appreciate why they'd want to wait. But, in the end I went with the SVS PB1-ISD back in September and am very happy with it. I would have been going nuts still waiting for STF-3.

The Darla scene in Nemo has impressed many a friend at my apartment with the PB1. Hopefully the STF-3 is free of the STF-2 problems, as it should be a strong contender at its price.

the reason i chose axioms was for their detailed highs. The reason i bought a high end stereo system was so i could listen to 'O'fortuna' by Carl Orff. I found a version on the internet with amazing, detailed voices and deep, loud bass. The axioms do a great job on that song, but what I envisioned before buying the system was a system that would rock when the big ole bass drums went off.
I listen to classical 30-40% and 60% everything else. When i listen to classical i want to feel the bass drums in my feet and my chest. On O'fortuna i keep bottoming out the stf-2(woops), but for everything else(rock etc) the STF-2 is not bad.
Maybe the TN 1220 is not for me. I really do not know. I have about a week before i go back to school, and i will have to make my decision by then.

That is the first time I have read of anyone ever bottoming out a Hsu sub. Maybe you are getting unlucky and got another bad sub.

Hawkson is a big bass freak. I'm sure he has that thing cranked.

Before this thread turns into a Hsu sucks feeding frenzy, let's keep it in perspective. They've had ONE bad batch of STF-2's and made the bad choice of suggesting a DIY fix, rather than taking care of it themselves. They still make incredible subs and amazing prices.

Hawk, I'm not sure what you need. I don't think anything less than dual 1220HO's (or something like it) is going to satisfy you. If you want your pant legs floppin' in the breeze, it's going to cost you. (both your wallet AND your hearing)

I don't know spiff...when I had that SVS sub to test out, I had my VTF-3 and 20-39PC+ cranked up. I mean the room was shaking with any little bass note.

I just can't imagine listening to music that way. I can not imagine needing any more than what that VTF-3 puts out.

Now WANTING more is a different story.

He's bottoming out his STF-2 and it's not enough for him. !!!!

and I'm saying maybe the STF-2 is bottoming out (god forbid) because something is wrong with it.

Hawk...what part of the country are you in?

The other question is what album are you listening to? Which version, that is, of O Fortuna? I have a Star Wars CD that was mastered so badly, it will give a good run at bottoming out/blowing any speakers I put it on.

I know what Hawk needs -- Klipschorns!

It's sad but true that anyone who rushes out to buy any company's newest product is unwittingly engaging in beta testing. The new model Honda CR-V in 2002 apparently was plagued with problems. Not so the 2003. Give Hsu a few months to iron out the kinks in the STF-2 and everything will be fine, even though their customer service needs a major overhaul.

I'm asking this on several different places on the net, so forgive me if you visit those too.

I just got my STF3 and amd getting my new Axiom setup to blend. I think I bottomed it out once because I had things set a little too hot. I backed off the DD LFE setting on my receiver about -10db and was able to turn the sub gain UP to about 10'olock and everything was thunderous and clean.

Does that sound right? I have never had a sub with this power and didn't know how much I could "push it" before reaching its limit. Seemed to find it a little early.

With the receiver set to 0db and the sub at a mere 9'oclock the opening starship scene on attack of the clones the sub made an UGLY "clack" sound at one point.

Any thoughts here? (I've posted at HSU, AVS and called HSU to leave a message).

I'm not sure why the gain controls on Hsu subs are so touchy, but my VTF-2 rarely is turned as far as 9 O'clock. If it's thunderous and clean at the setting you've got it now, it sounds like you've got it right. There's just never a need to crank that gain knob up too high. A little bit goes a long way.

To properly calibrate a sub (and all the other speakers in a home theater setup), you really need a sound pressure meter. 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock, halfway up, etc., are totally meaningless without a reference.

It seems to me you actually turned down the overall volume of the sub. You really need to get an SPL meter and calibrate properly. I suspect you have the sub too "hot" or loud.

With the rumble you hear on those scenes, or other scenes, what is the volume like on the rest of the system?

By using the gain control on the sub, you should try to get the receiver to just a few db above zero on the sub volume.

Bottoming out happens when the excursion of the driver exceeds the limit and hits the structure behind it.

Get a SPL meter and correctly set all of the speaker levels including the sub. That "clack" shouldn't happen if you have the sub properly calibrated relative to the other channels.

K. Looking to get an SPL meter. The further you get into this hobby (first "real" speakers... first "real" sub...) the more $$$ it takes!! Love it!

I did not feel that I had the overall sound on the other speakers too loud during the scenes where the driver "clacked". I must have just had the sub specific settings too hot. Even though they were soo very low on the dial.

It just amazes me how clear / loud this axiom/HSU combo gets with little movement on the volume dial. And I have a low power amp behind it all. Unreal!

Well said, Tony G. This is the essence of calibration. Dial positions, dB readings on your amps, etc., aren't linear and the relationships aren't standardized. It's all relative. 5000 RPM in top gear in a Civic is not equivalent to 5000 RPM top gear in a Viper, right? The bottom line is: how fast, how loud, how long, how high, in relation to a standard. Buying a sound level meter and a decent calibration disc is a sound investment. If you have any questions, search old posts or ask questions here; you'll get helpful, INFORMED answers. Even when it gets heated or cranky, this is, in my experience, the best forum, bar none.

I didn't mean to imply that Hsu subs settings should be under 9 o'clock or anything like that. I have my speaker and sub levels calibrated using my handy RS meter. But as I said, properly set, the gain control on my VTF-2 is barely turned up at all. That was my point.

Barring a couple recent threads, it rarely gets cranky around here. I used to visit several other boards regularly, and nothing compares with the great crowd of guys we have here.

"Buying a sound level meter and a decent calibration disc is a sound investment."

Intersting way of putting it.