SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350

Posted by: chesseroo

SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350 - 08/25/04 12:29 AM

It has been awhile since i last posted and it may be awhile longer yet before i post regularly again.
However i thought i would post some of our impressions of the SVS and Axiom sub, just not today.
Hopefully soon if i can get Bren (and others) to find some time for auditions.
Note the SVS is not mine but the owner will doing comparisons along with us.




Posted by: JohnK

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350 - 08/25/04 12:48 AM

Chess, will be looking forward to it.
Posted by: Thasp

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350 - 08/25/04 02:32 AM

Wowie. I expect the Axiom to get owned by the SVS based on size alone. It could probably hold three of the Axioms..

Haven't seen you post in a while, chess - welcome back.
Posted by: Radspecv

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350 - 08/25/04 08:48 AM

Hey Chess - good to have you back. I think a lot ov people will be interested in the results. I expect the SVS to crush the EP350 in some respects but it'll be good to see what the little guy can do vs. the huge cylinder.

Pete
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350 - 08/25/04 11:52 AM

You're such a tease. You did this same baiting with us when you told us about your Axiom tour.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350 - 08/25/04 12:00 PM

I promise this 'review' won't take a month.
Peter, you're so impatient.
Maybe you should take the personality test.
Posted by: Thasp

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350 - 08/31/04 01:32 AM

**Thasp pokes chess with a childlike impatience
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350 - 08/31/04 01:41 AM

LOL,
Sorry Thasp.
I've been so busy on a daily basis for months now that my time in the audio room has been limited. I was waiting on some information that just came in late this evening. I will finish the rather lengthy review and hopefully have it up by sometime tomorrow night (Wednesday at the latest, i swear). I did not even see the follow up posts to this thread until now.

I just received notice from Bren and sidvicious today, however they will not be available before i post the review. Hence the material will consist of the general ideas of 2 reviewers including myself and another friend. Note that he is not an Axiom owner.

If anyone wants some high resolution pictures of specific angles of these speakers, please let me know and i will try to post some when the text goes up.

On another note, my Anthem amp comes in tomorrow and the big Tannoys should be up and running again soon.
Posted by: chesseroo

SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/01/04 12:02 AM

The chance to review/audition the heralded SVS 16-46 PCi subwoofer was quite exciting. To pair it against the Axiom EP350 made things that much more fun.
I can sum up the review now in short words, but what fun would that be?


First Thoughts
When the SVS arrived, both my friend and I were humbled by the huge size. I had heard much about the large girth of these subs, but since they come in 3 different sizes, it was always hard to get a handle on just what version people were referring to. Since we received the largest of the 3, the PCi 16-46, it really was not difficult to relate the unit to a small water heater. The black (uggh, personal peeve) felt finish was reasonable for aesthetics, although for the first 2 nights I swore our cat was going to have a heyday with it. I don’t care who thinks the SVS subs are sexy, you just cannot beat the number or type of finishes available from Axiom or (insert other company here). I absolutely love the SVS SS wood finish but for nearly $2k USD I think I’ll stick with what we’ve got.
Axiom wins the aesthetics, hands down, across and under foot.

The Setup
To start off the listening session, the subwoofers were calibrated using the sub gain knobs and set as close to each other as possible near the same position that my EP350 previously sat. Both subs were connected via a simple y-splitter. The Onkyo DS797 receiver had the mains set to ‘small’ (when they were in use) to equalize any differences in manually setting a crossover on the units themselves. After the calibrations were complete, one of us would sit by the subs and alternate turning the SVS or Axiom sub on and off by flicking the power switches accordingly.
Although only two of us did the auditioning, I am waiting to hear back from Bren. Hopefully if his new Hsu sub has been purchased then some additions to this review can be made at that time.

We started off the listening with some simple test tones. From 4Hz up to the 125Hz range just to see what the subs were capable of doing. One simple conclusion drawn from the very first switch of the subwoofers was that there was absolutely no point in doing a blind test with the subs calibrated to the same SPL (75dB). Simply put, the SVS 16-46 subwoofer out rumbled the EP350 by about 3:1 (not an exaggeration) and hit the 16Hz with some audibility (67dB at 50% gain) while the EP350 seemed to struggle until 20Hz (64dB at 50% gain).
Was this particularly surprising?
Not really.
The SVS contains a 320W amplifier compared to the Axiom 200W and the cabinet size holds over double the volume (approximately 151 L vs. 77 L if my calculations are correct) with nearly the same diameter/depth and almost 3 times the height. A larger speaker will produce a larger sound given that all else remains similar. In this case, both subs are paired with 12” drivers and the SVS holds the spec for having a more powerful amp (1.6x if the specs are measured and reported in a similar manner).

At this point we had to decide what to do. Should we continue the audition with both subs set at equivalent SPL even though we knew the SVS was a dead giveaway each time? Or do we lower the gain on the SVS to a relatively equal value (by ear) and then try out some music and movies?
Well we ended up doing both actually. The ‘matched’ listening tests were done blind although after a couple of switches, we both realized that picking out the SVS from the Axiom was still ridiculously easy to do.

The Results
Beginning with the easy tests, both subs were equalized at the same SPL (75dB). We started out by unplugging the main speakers and turning off all the rest in the receiver setup. After all, the best way to listen to a speaker is to eliminate all the rest and listen to just that one speaker. Integration with the set comes later.
So we proceeded with our usual test discs and heard how the SVS performed in music, followed by a couple of the usual test movies (U571, LOTR, Finding Nemo). Then we turned down the SVS gain to a point where it seemed to best ‘match’ the sub output from the EP350. When it was down about 5dB (35% gain vs. 45% on the Axiom) we decided that the levels were more equivalent. At this point we redid our evaluation of music and movie clips.
Next, we turned the main speakers back on and once again did the listening in both modes (equalized and then ‘matched’). After that was finished, we decided to really test out the SVS for fun and slowly cranked up the gain during some of the test movies to see how far it could be pushed. We also did this with the EP350 to see how far it could go in matching the SVS if at all.
Whew.
So, after we got through that, it was about 1AM and my wife (and sleeping baby girl) were not happy campers. I had to put it to rest.

The following week (this week past) I’ve had a chance to setup the SVS in the same way that I usually have my EP350, with the mains set to “large” and adjusting the SVS crossover to match the natural roll off of my Axiom M60s. I will comment more on that at the end of the summary.

Anyways, throughout the listening, both my friend and I drew similar, but not identical conclusions.

First and foremost, does the SVS “beat” the Axiom EP350?
As usual, the answer is, it depends.
It depends on personal preference.

For music I found the SVS to be overbearing at the 75dB calibration while my friend felt that the SVS was his cup of tea for right amount of bass. He did agree this was more dependant on a song-by-song basis and that at the 75dB calibration, the wall rattles were significantly taking away from the pleasure of music listening. At the lesser dB level (the ‘matched’ tests), the SVS was much more controlled and integrated better with the music but I still felt the bass notes tended to linger. The tall cylinder that was designed for a deep reach into the low Hz range lends to a lot more sound being reverberated within the room. It takes time for that sound to dissipate between beats and it is noticeable. Obviously room effects will come into play but we are comparing 2 subs in the same room with as close proximity as is physically possible.
On the upside, the taller SVS cylinder DOES reach into lower frequencies. This was noticeable with both the test tones and the organ music, far more so than with the EP350. My wife loves organ music so she was happy with hearing such a true note from the pipe organ. For dance music or anything designed with a strong beat, the SVS was just solid. It could handle the notes with ease and then some and it could certainly sound like a nightclub reproduction. Not a hint of port chuff for this beast.

On the flipside, there is the Axiom EP350. Very capable for hitting low notes in music, but without the obvious low extension of the SVS. The smaller cabinet made for a lesser boomy impact and was by far my preference for the majority of music. Bass did not linger and a twang from a bass viol did not rattle our chairs (about a 41Hz low note). The last time I sat next to a bass viol player I don’t quite recall my legs moving like Jell-O nor did I hear the loose wing nuts on my chair turning from vibration.

Now onto the movies. This one is simple. SVS kicks some serious rear end. There simply was no comparison to be made. The EP350 is capable of good rumble but the SVS is capable of realistic, down the road explosions.
Is this always necessary though? Absolutely not.
Anyone with a smaller room would be blown out with the use of this SVS. Overkill is definitely a word that could be used. For a larger space or for those who really want bass to hit them more in the chest, the SVS 16-46 HAS to be the choice here.

The test of the total SPL output was also a dead giveaway to the SVS. At 40% gain, the SVS made my stairs rattle while the EP350 could only do this around the 60% mark. The SVS at 60% made the stairs and 2 upstairs doors rattle while our 135lb Brazilian mastiff cowered from the thought of oncoming thunder. The EP350 never improved much beyond the 60% gain and the output sounded like it was on a down curve. But the SVS at 75% on the gain was still putting it out solid. At 80% we started to cut back and the output sounded like it was on its down curve around that point. With these thoughts in mind, we did a little test of the SPL levels. Using a 40Hz tone and putting both subwoofers at 75% gain, the SVS measured 85dB while the EP350 came in at 73dB. The SVS hit 73dB with a gain setting of only 50%!!
The toughest test scenes (LOTR Balins Tomb and the Darla tapping tank in Finding Nemo) were easily handled by the SVS even at 75% on the gain while the EP350 at 60% was back to its tendency for chuff although it was admittedly very hard to hear over the sound of the movie. I was becoming worried that during the movie scene while using the EP350 at 60%+ gain, it might start doing some kind of 30 year old washing machine rain dance. Just to note, it did not.
To handle bass notes of this magnitude, subwoofers need several key things including a lot of power (especially for smaller drivers), a solid cabinet and as large a driver as is feasible for plenty of air movement. The SVS weighing in at 60lbs compared to the EP350 39lb (along with previously mentioned factors) really makes a difference when some crazy bugger decides they want to hear live explosions in your basement through your stereo system. The two subwoofers were really not that close in some specifications and in reality a better comparison would have been the EP350 vs. the SVS 25-31 model.

A Problem?
Overall I’m very impressed with the way the Axiom EP350 held up against the SVS PCi 16-46. I’m still working on integrating the SVS with my M60s in the same way that I have my EP350 typically setup. However, it seems that to get the level of bass I prefer for music, I have to turn down the SVS gain to 30% or a bit less, which for movies is too low, and hence the gain needs to be turned up again. This is just unacceptable for our daily uses which could swap between HT and music multiple times depending on who’s home. Two subwoofers would probably suit the situation better. Perhaps the EP350 for music and the SVS for HT while using just a wall switch for subwoofer power selection depending on the use any given day.

Our general summary:

For those looking for a music based sub, who are not into heavy beats, have a smaller room (e.g. no cathedral ceilings with a 17x40 living area leading into an open dining room and kitchen….2300 sq ft open floor, etc. etc.), listen to movies at moderate or lower volumes or require their speakers to be colour matched, then the Axiom EP350 (or EP175) is the unit of choice.
For those who like a bit more bass in ALL music, have a truly larger room or love to watch movies with sound up higher and explosions to be chest thumping, the SVS 16-46 should be the option of preference, otherwise consider this SVS model overkill. Compensating with the smaller models would probably make for an excellent trade off (slightly lesser bass but slightly lesser cost as well).

Just to note, the SVS cost $649 USD before shipping and taxes (just over $1000 Cdn after its arrival). The Axiom EP350 cost $620 with free shipping before taxes (about $934 Cdn new after arrival). One can easily understand why the SVS subwoofers have a good corner on the sales market. This sub is definitely worth multiple thumbs up for its price to performance ratio.

Now if they only started selling them in some wood vinyl finishes…


Posted by: Thasp

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/01/04 12:59 AM

Very well written! Great review, all in all.

The one thing that surprised me was the tube effect on the sub, that the notes lingered. I never knew that they effected the performance like that, and thought that the tube subs were downright superior to box subs. Boxes do have some advantage, and I wonder if the HSU tubes have the same lingering effects as the SVS. Is it brand specific, or is it a law of physics thing? A question for another day, and another comparison, I suppose.




Posted by: pmbuko

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/01/04 01:06 AM

"My, what girth you have!" said the nervous listener.
"All the better to pound you with...er... to wow you with bass, uh, with!" replied the SVS.


Thanks for the review, Chess! Once again, we are shown that Axiom doesn't make a bad subwoofer, but the bang for the buck comes into question.
Posted by: TonyM

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/01/04 03:34 AM

Hello Thasp,

Hope you are well. I think it had more to do with his room vibrations and squeeks dying down between notes. Sounds like you need a well dampened and nailed tight room to utilize that beasty. Friend of mine has two 16-46PC Plus in a home theater room with acoustic tiling and wall treatments, the whole nine yards. In that room they sound fantastic without vibrating the room structure, but they sure rumble your organs, eyeballs, popcorn, etc.... hehe. These are the 525 Watt versions with the aluminum Plus driver and different port design, and also incorporate a subsonic filter, which probably helps a lot with unwanted vibrations. I guess it is worth it to get the more expensive Plus model.

Looking at the frequency response graph the newer model has a ruler flat response from 16Hz to 100Hz, where the PCi model is tilted up in the lower frequencies and rolls off to around -5db down by 100Hz. Could make it boomy.

Later,

TonyM
Posted by: bigjohn

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/01/04 09:14 AM

nice review chess, thanks.. i am pretty much sold on an SVS sub for my huge den(28x26). now its just a matter of saving up money, and finding a good deal on one.

i like the chess-thumping bass, so you have just flipped the switch, and heightened my anticipation a little more.. my wife thanks you!!

bigjohn
Posted by: ericb

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/01/04 10:32 AM

Great review Chess. Many of the sub reviews I have read seem to lose sight of how a sub might be used as well as room considerations. Thanks for including that type of detail.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/01/04 10:57 AM

Thasp, the lingering bass effect i am referring to was heard on songs like Hollly Cole's "I can see clearly now" which is one of our test recordings. There is a bass viol playing to start then Holly begins to sing. With the EP350, the viol note set 1st hits, ends, 2nd set hits and ends and Holly beings to sing. With the SVS, the viol note set hits and almost rolls into the second viol note set. The second viol note set hits and lingers into the start of Holly's voice. We are talking about a short time frame but the oxymoron of 'fast bass' is actually a reasonable description for the EP350 vs. the SVS. As i said in the review, for those who like a little more bass for their music, this won't be a bother.

Explanation?
Well of course room acoustics have to do with everything, but unlike the situation that TonyM describes, most people do not have acoustic panels and specifically designed rooms to control typical wall resonance that adds to things like bass. However, i am playing these 2 subs in the SAME room and SAME location so room effects are considered equalized in this situation. This means as we've made all other conditions as equal as possible, the observations being made are due to effects from the two different subwoofer brands and their build design.
The lingering bass of the SVS compared to the EP350 has to do with the length of the SVS tube. The notes linger because the tube is so much more long.
Let's take an extreme example.
If we had a 50 foot SVS tube in our listening room and compared it to the EP350, the EP350 would play a bass note, recover and then play another note. Depending on how fast the notes are being played determines how fast the driver should react. Now if the first note played is close to the second note, the relatively long wavelength of a low frequency sound wave travels a short distance in/around the smaller EP350 and then the second note begins. Now in the 50 foot SVS tube, that first note would play and the 50 foot tube would still be vibrating from note #1 (the subs are braced but far from perfect) and air would STILL be exiting the port of the tube 50 feet away long after the second note has been struck. Vibration from the long tube very much makes a difference in how 'much' bass sound comes from the SVS.
The long tube also greatly adds to the extension of the bass notes that the SVS is capable of hitting. Note how SVS makes their lower extension cylinder subs by making them taller in height (longer tube). Bass notes come from moving alot of air and you can do that primarily by using larger drivers, more powerful amps and bigger cabinets.
That is exactly what this SVS does and in comparison to the EP350, that greater air movement means alot more bass energy has to dissipate, hence the lingering bass notes.
Of course as i also mentioned in the review, you can compensate for this by turning down the gain on the SVS and therby creating less bass. However the issue i had then was at 30% or less on the gain, the movie bass was just not good enough for heavy explosions.
There are always trade offs to be made with any speaker design.
Posted by: curtis

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/01/04 11:45 AM

Chess,
What you just described with the 16-46 is the same that I experienced with the 20-39PC+ and PB1+...possibly to a lesser extent because the Plus subs have a nicer driver. Your example I think does a better job at describing what you heard. A friend of mine described it as "the attack transient and subsequent decay are not clean".

From what I have been able to read, the SVS Ultra subs are better at this.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/01/04 12:23 PM

That's interesting Curtis.
I was wondering if the smaller subs such as the 20-39 or especially the 25-31 would reduce the effect. I would love to hear the Ultra series but with the EQ turned off for a more apples to apples comparison. The change in driver certainly could make a difference (aluminum vs. kevlar impregnated pulp otherwise referred to as darn strong paper).
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/01/04 12:46 PM

Thanks for the fine review Chesseroo. Very well done and very unbiased.

If you remember, thanks to a post of yours, I ended up getting an EP350 (used) for $300 Canadian. I am still in the process of setting up my "enhanced tv" viewing room as relandscaping the back yard and rebuilding a 20 year old deck have taken over much of my life.

Sometime in the autumn I should be able to post some pictures of my modified 350 and it gets transformed into a Queen Anne 5 drawer cabinet, never mind why just accept the fact that it's going to happen .

Your post supported the view I already had of the 350, it's fine for a average sized room, and does very well by me. It's certainly more than worth the investment I have in it.

Again thanks ever so much for this comparison, it was worth waiting for.
Posted by: NeverHappy

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/20/04 11:57 PM

In reply to:

I would love to hear the Ultra series but with the EQ turned off




chesseroo, you can come down to Regina and try mine out anytime you like! I also don't use the EQ............ever!
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/21/04 12:02 AM

A tempting offer NH, but unfortunately i have only travelled to Sask. once in my lifetime, except for the return trip of course in which i had to pass through again.
Most often i just fly over it.
However, if i ever get the chance, i will be sure to drop you a PM before we travel.
If you do end up coming to the Peg, you are welcome to stop in and have a look see/llisten at our growing collection of audio pieces.

I hope you like big dogs.
Posted by: BrenR

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/21/04 12:27 AM

Actually, Never Happy - I'll be in Regina the last week of October... maybe we'll hang out for a beer or something.

Bren R.
Posted by: NeverHappy

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/21/04 01:17 AM

BrenR, Anytime. Let me know via a PM or something. What brings you down by the way?
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/06/09 10:34 PM

Again updating old posts with pics


Posted by: fredk

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/07/09 12:02 AM

Nice review Chess. Your observations match with what I think of the EP350. Since I wanted clean bass for music, I think I made the right choice at the time.

I suspect that something like the PB13 ultra or EP800 would put either of the subs you have to shame.

I wonder what kind of bass you would get if you let the EP350 handle from 40Hz up and the PCi 15-46 handle the bottom end. I suspect it might sound quite good.
Posted by: Potatohead

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/07/09 02:12 AM

5 years? Really?
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/07/09 12:56 PM

 Originally Posted By: Potatohead
5 years? Really?

Sure.
The speaker models still exist so the comparisons still apply. It is just that the links were broken as i switched photo hosts over time so now and again when anyone refers to the post the pics are back in place.
Speaker designs rarely change quickly.

Everyone loves pictures especially those like really seeing the difference in size alone between the Axiom Ep350 and a SVS sub!

I was shocked the first time i saw it.
The cylinder subs really do look like water heaters.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/07/09 01:13 PM

Well, they still have speakers with the same names, at least... The 350s have changed quite a bit since then.
Posted by: grunt

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/07/09 03:07 PM

 Originally Posted By: chesseroo

The cylinder subs really do look like water heaters.


Looks kinda cool to me.
Posted by: fredk

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/07/09 09:19 PM

 Originally Posted By: Potatohead
5 years? Really?

I looked at the 8/25 and wondered how I missed this thread. I got more sun than I thought this weekend.
Posted by: Micah

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/08/09 11:16 AM

 Originally Posted By: fredk
 Originally Posted By: Potatohead
5 years? Really?

I looked at the 8/25 and wondered how I missed this thread. I got more sun than I thought this weekend.


Me too!


I think it's a shame that SVS changed their subs over from the beautuful wood finished box models to these huge felt covered cyclinders. As he mentioned, for a highend HT arrangement, you would simply have to go with Axiom or some other brand because how do you integrate that thing in seamlessly with upscale furniture and decore??? Even if they did find huge advantages with going with cyclinders, couldn't they have at least kept the other models around for those who want a more discrete look???

Very nice write up btw!
Posted by: wilwom

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/08/09 05:24 PM

 Originally Posted By: Micah


I think it's a shame that SVS changed their subs over from the beautuful wood finished box models to these huge felt covered cyclinders. As he mentioned, for a highend HT arrangement, you would simply have to go with Axiom or some other brand because how do you integrate that thing in seamlessly with upscale furniture and decore??? Even if they did find huge advantages with going with cyclinders, couldn't they have at least kept the other models around for those who want a more discrete look???



SVS started out with the cylinder subs initially and later added the box line. I've owned and enjoyed SVS cylinder subs for the last 8 years. SVS continues to offer both form factors. I think it's a matter of personal choice. We all have furniture, but I'm not so sure about decore?
Bill
Posted by: Micah

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/08/09 05:51 PM

Well I've seen potted plants, Japanese tree's, crystal sculptures, display cases filled with antiques, even a wooden Indian gracing the interiors of home theaters I've been in. Never have I seen a water heater sitting in the corner.

And I searched and searched for the box-style, down firing subs like they used to sell at SVS, but it seems all of their down firing subs are now the cyclinders. You can get wood finished box-style front firing subs, but not the down firing models. I wish they would have kept them for variety, as it seems they were wickedly popular.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/08/09 06:32 PM

I'm told that if you have two or three cylinder subs in the same room they start to dominate the decor and look like they belong, assuming the rest of the decor is sufficiently modern.

One cylinder sub... just looks out of place. I suppose you could relocate your water heater and wrap it with black felt to match.

And yes, I own an SVS cylinder sub ;\)
Posted by: wilwom

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/08/09 07:17 PM

 Originally Posted By: Micah

And I searched and searched for the box-style, down firing subs like they used to sell at SVS, but it seems all of their down firing subs are now the cyclinders. You can get wood finished box-style front firing subs, but not the down firing models. I wish they would have kept them for variety, as it seems they were wickedly popular.


So now you qualified it to down firing subs. And that's why you might just have to go to Axiom to buy a sub? Just which Axiom sub is down firing? Never mind about the decore.
Posted by: Micah

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/08/09 07:55 PM

I suppose you're right, Axiom doesn't carry downfiring subs either, so scratch them off of my list as well.

Where I was coming from was I was trying to figure out in which direction to go if the replacement EP800 I have coming doesn't perform up to my expectations. I really did like the downfiring subs I've had in the past for one specific reason, the woofer is completely out of harms way as far as curious little people are concerned. No danger of accidentally kicking one and damaging it either. And I always found the dispersment of the bass to be more even (my personal opinion mind you, I have no proof to back that up). So I was looking for down firing subs to either replace the Axiom if I'm not happy with it, or even to accompany it if it does work out, but I feel like adding to the system with something that has a bit more slam. If I add to the existing sub, the next sub will be out in the open, perhaps next to a couch or in the corner somewhere. And since our HT pulls double duty as our sales/viewing room, it has to look elegant.

I found the downfiring SVS subs in dated articles and they were gorgeous. So I started to look to see where I could get one and found they were no longer in production. I thought that was a shame, because they really did look nice imo.
Posted by: Wid

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/08/09 08:07 PM


You could look at the Hsu VTF 3 MK3 with real wood veneer.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/08/09 08:53 PM

 Originally Posted By: Micah
I suppose you're right, Axiom doesn't carry downfiring subs either, so scratch them off of my list as well.



Well of course they do.

Take a look (5 year old pics)





[b][/b]

If you add extra pucks, you can get more height, but it really isn't necessary.

Posted by: Micah

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/08/09 09:00 PM

Lol, what is that... an EP350 sitting on its face?
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/08/09 09:03 PM

 Originally Posted By: Micah
Lol, what is that... an EP350 sitting on its face?

Nope, it's raised on hockey pucks.
Some here have tried soup cans, but i felt the dampening properties of vulcanized rubber on Berber carpet would maximize the decoupling from the ground.
I also found the best effect occurred with the $2 Canadian Tire pucks and not so much with the $8 NHL Official logo pucks.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/08/09 09:54 PM

 Originally Posted By: chesseroo

it's raised on hockey pucks.


You have to feed your EP350?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/08/09 10:31 PM

All Canadians (and their products) are raised on hockey pucks.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/08/09 10:44 PM

Except for babies, the pucks are for teething.
Posted by: Murph

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/09/09 07:43 AM

 Originally Posted By: chesseroo
I also found the best effect occurred with the $2 Canadian Tire pucks and not so much with the $8 NHL Official logo pucks.


Only in Canada can the wisdom of choosing the correct hockey puck for creating just the right sound be found on a web board full of audiophiles.

All this and Tim Hortons. A place where you can still order a coffee without waiting 10 minutes for the guy ahead of you to have his milk steamed. \:\)
Posted by: HAY

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/09/09 09:02 AM

 Originally Posted By: wid

You could look at the Hsu VTF 3 MK3 with real wood veneer.


Except that it is now side firing...

The VTF2-MK3 is still bottom firing though..


Posted by: jakewash

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/09/09 01:13 PM

Is there any one out there that still makes down firing subs? I think some of the smaller eD subs are but the larger ones are front firing except of course the behemoth A7-700.

I really like my PB 13 Ultra smaller than the EP600/800 and as much output as just about anyone one would ever need.
Posted by: casey01

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/09/09 04:03 PM

Although they are designed primarily from the HSU platform, the "Outlaw" series of subs are primarily down-firing and have similar features though at somewhat less cost than the HSU's. I have the LFM-1 Plus in my system of multiple subs and it has excellent build quality and sounds great.
Posted by: Wid

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/09/09 04:50 PM

 Originally Posted By: HAY
 Originally Posted By: wid

You could look at the Hsu VTF 3 MK3 with real wood veneer.


Except that it is now side firing...

The VTF2-MK3 is still bottom firing though..




I reckon you're right. Looks like the VTF 2 MK3 is down firing.
Posted by: Micah

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/09/09 10:58 PM

Wonder why everyone is moving away from the down firing subs? They used to be all the rage. Oh well, time marches on I guess.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: SVS PCi 16-46 and the Axiom EP350-the thoughts - 09/09/09 11:17 PM

Have any of you guys seen or heard of these Linear Array Transducers(LAT) made by Tymphany? See the writeup as to how they work, it's quite interesting; they use several smaller diaphragms with two opposing end motors in a very small package, just a few inches and are claimed to be comparable to dual 8", 10", or dual 12" depending on the model. Kewell!! check'em out.