Wow...from a new owner...

Posted by: Kenturkey

Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 01:29 PM

Wow is all I can say. I ordered my M3Tis Monday, and they arrived here in KY yesterday. When I unpacked them and hooked them up, I was disappointed to say the least. Such shrill little screamers. They sounded like someone's fingernails on a blackboard. Terrible.

Let's back up a little first...

Two weeks ago, I decided to upgrade the home theater. It's been three years since I've made any major purchases for it. So, since I had recently revamped my home brew DIY subwoofer, I decided that for the ultimate HT experience, I needed five or six completely identical speakers. Best buy was closing out last year's Klipsch models, so I got three sets of SB-2s for $250/pr. Not bad. I played them a lot, and eventually became acustomed to their sound. Never really happy, but accustomed. I decided it would be in my best interest to make the most of BB's 30 day return policy. So I've been listening to everything under the sun in town. Infinity, Polk, Athena, JBL, B&W, Klipsch reference, Paradigm, etc. The models I liked better, I couldn't afford, the ones I could afford, I didn't like any better than my SB-2s. I kept reading various reviews on audioreview.com. I keep seeing ads for these speakers that have "no right" to sound as good as they do. I'm not paying $275/pr for speakers I can't hear first. That's nuts.

Oh... They have a 30 day return policy...

So, I got them last night, hooked them up, terrible. We've already covered that base. Well, all new speakers need to break-in. This I know. So, when I left for work this morning, I threw some CDs in the CD changer, hit repeat, turned up the bass, turned the HK AVR230 up to about -18dB, and walked out the door. When I came home for lunch, a miracle had happened. Someone had replaced my shrill terrible speakers with some much smoother, more mellow speakers that looked exactly like the others. I brought a friend of mine who had been interested in my speaker auditions as he's planning on finding a new set of speakers to feed to his Onkyo Integra. The "new and improved" Axioms beat the SB-2s hands down. No comparison. The Klipsch SB-2s sound like cheap AM radios in the same room with the M3Tis. Given, the M3TIs aren't as loud as the SB-2s, but I'll trade quality for quantity any day.

The next step is, well, to pay a visit to best buy, but, I need to plan on filling out the rest of the HT setup. Can't have a Home Theater with only two speakers. So here's my plan. Current pair of M3Tis will be put in series and act as a single center channel. I hate the sound of a center channel that sits on top of the TV. Too distractingly localized. So, I was thinking M40Tis for the mains, and three M3TIs for the surround and surround back.

Feel free to advise.

Chris

Posted by: BrenR

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 01:51 PM

Whoa, better return those... if they went from "shrill" to "wow" in 4 hours, they'll be "muddy" by supper time and "gastrointestinal distress" by tomorrow morning.

*takes a front row seat for the impending "break in" war*

Bren R.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 01:56 PM

I ain't touching this one, but I'll gladly watch.
Posted by: Kenturkey

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 01:59 PM

OR, we could respond intelligently, instead of trying to incite a flamewar...
Posted by: bigjohn

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 02:02 PM

welcome kenturkey.. glad the M3's are gonna work for you..

the speaker 'break-in' theory is one that has been aggresively debated several times in this forum, and everyone has their own beliefs. the whole concept to me seems irrational, cause then you would have to consider the fact if the speajkers know when to quit breaking in.. make sense.. ? my personal belief is that the listeners ears get accustom to the new sound, and its your perception that changes, not the speaker.. regardless of what i think, the bottom line is, that you tested several brands and kinds of speakers, and the axiom M3ti's are the best you have heard yet for the price. that all that matters..

and as far as the rest of the system that you want to set up.. there are a few people that have linked M3 and M2 in series to create a center channel, and they are very pleased with the results. the M40's have had great reviews from owners as well.. i cant say , cause i have never heard them, but, i assume they are just as good as every other axiom product. enjoy your new system, and post some pics.. we like to see the set-ups

bigjohn
Posted by: KCSkins

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 02:28 PM

Congrats, Kenturkey, on your purchase.

I've had the same experience TWICE now with tweeters sounding harsh upon the first few listens. You're not alone. They were very shrill as soon as I installed them, so much so that they hurt my ears and caused me to end my initial listening sessions much earlier than I had figured on. They both leveled out after some time. So it seems like you have experienced the same thing that I did.

So enjoy your new Axioms, bud. Welcome to the club.
Posted by: Kenturkey

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 02:38 PM

Thanks John and KC. Well, the interesting part of it all will be when I get the next sets of M3Tis. If in fact the controversial "break-in" theory doesn't hold water, then the new ones (right out of the box) will sound identical to the ones I'll have been playing for some time. Right?

The contradiction to the purely psychological aspect however is that it would render speaker reviews pointless wouldn't it? I mean, all one would have to do is make sure a reviewer has a speaker for a long enough time that the reviewer eventually gets used to it, and decides that it's perfect.

Still nobody has mentioned what they think of my HT plan. Anyone else have a room full of M3s or M40s?
Posted by: TTA89

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 02:40 PM

I didn't notice any difference from Day 1 although if the sound changed all that much maybe something is wrong with them?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 02:54 PM

I don't think many people have the roomful of M3s thing going; Axioms QS series of surrounds is pretty highly regarded for use in home theatre. I've got the QS4s, and they're damn good considering that my placement is poor.
Posted by: spiffnme

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 03:01 PM

If I'm not mistaken Ian suggests a few (couple or so) hours break-in. After that he says it's your ears/brain "breaking in". But he does say they'll need those couple of hours right out of the box.


Posted by: NeverHappy

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 03:03 PM

Man I don't doubt what your saying at all but the M3's bright? I have had a few of these and I found them all to be very laid back right out of the box. Are you sure there is nothing wrong with them?
Posted by: Twirly22

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 03:14 PM

"So when I left for work this morning, I threw some CDs in the CD changer, hit repeat, turned up the bass, turned the HK AVR230 up to about -18dB, and walked out the door. When I came home for lunch, a miracle had happened."

I did basically the same thing with my M22's and my HSU STF-2 with the same result -- the sound improved significantly in my absence. Since they were broken in -- there, I said it -- the sound has not continued to change. Not one bit.
Posted by: Kenturkey

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 03:16 PM

I guess it was a mistake to post my personal experience. Obviously I must be halucinating. Even though I wasn't AT home during this "break-in" process, my ears and brain have become accustomed to the sound of speakers I haven't been listening to.

Obviously I'm the only one who's ever bought new shoes and found them uncomfortable because they were not broken in. Wait, I guess that means that if they became comfortable in a week or so, they would be on the verge of decay at the end of the month since the process must obviously be linear and continuous.

The discussion of the break-in theory of speakers was not the point of my post. I just posted my subjective personal experience. If you want to believe that I didn't experience it, fine. Keep it to yourself, or in another thread. If you would like to talk about my plan for my home theater, or if you also own some M3s or M40s, please, chime in.

Chris

Posted by: bigjohn

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 03:31 PM

easy fellas.. everyones perception of sound is different.. what one finds bright, someone else might find flat..

we all have our opinions, and we all dig our speakers.. thats a good thing. we dont need this to be a negative thing.

kenturkey- hopefully one of the guys that have M2's or M3's as centers will chime in. i would suggest to use the QS4's or QS8's for surrounds.. the quadpolar design makes for one of ther best sounding surrounds i think i have heard, regardless of price. and front firing speakers are usually considered better for rears, so an M2 or M3 would be perfect for your rear channel.

bigjohn
Posted by: Kenturkey

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 03:35 PM

John,

I guess I should have mentioned... My livingroom sucks for HT. That's why I've gone with direct radiators. My TV has to be in the corner, because of a large obtrusive fireplace dead center of the wall I WANT to put the TV on. So, the whole thing has to be "cocked" to the side in sort of a diamond shape. The surrounds are technically behind the couch because of it. I'll whip out the MSpaint here in a minute and draw a diagram. I just don't think the surrounds are gonna present the proper imaging in this setup.
Posted by: NeverHappy

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 03:36 PM

Hey I'm not sure if you are taking a shot at what I posted but I really meant what I said. When you first posted I thought there may be something wrong with them. I have owned the 3's and dam near everything else Axiom makes and I thought they were a laid back speaker. As I said above, I have no doubts you heard what you heard I was just asking a question!

As for the tone in general of this thread, ignore it. Some don't buy into speaker break in and some do. I have yet to be convinced either way but I listen to both sides!
Posted by: ScottA

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 03:53 PM

Kenturkey,

I have 3 M3's that I use as my back left, right and center. I have M22's up front. It sounds as if my listening environment is similar to yours. I have my TV in a corner and my room is very open. I went with 3 m3's because I like direct radiating speakers in the back. Nothing against the QS4 or QS8, I have not heard either. I am thinking about purchasing some QS8's to compare. My pics are in the Home Theater, under My HT pics. My system sounds great the way I have it set up.

Scott
Posted by: BrenR

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 03:58 PM

Spiff - I hate to misquote Alan, since he hates when he's taken out of context, but I believe it was him that said break-in takes a few seconds, not hours.

Kenturkey - I have the M3s, great speakers, they stand alone very well and work well with a sub. They get the black sheep of the family tag though, being the only bookshelf with a 6.5" woofer.

Bren R.
Posted by: Kenturkey

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 04:03 PM

Okay, here's a horrifying picture of my terrible livingroom. Sorry this was about time, not accuracy. Anyway, F is fireplace, A is aquarium, C is couch, T is table, S is sub, RM and LM are right and left mains respectively, E is equipment (Receiver, CD changer, etc). The living room is half of a large room with cathedral ceilings. The divider is an 8ft wall that separates it from the kitchen. (There is open space over the wall.) There are glass french doors between the Sub in the corner and the Right Main. I'd like to put my 6th (rear surround center) somewhere along the wall between the two surrounds. But, there's a closet door in there somewhere. Ugh.




Posted by: BrenR

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 04:04 PM

Put the TV in the fireplace and everything becomes simpler!

Bren R.
Posted by: Kenturkey

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 04:24 PM

In reply to:

Put the TV in the fireplace and everything becomes simpler!




I'd rather put the fireplace in the back yard, and be done with it. :-)
Posted by: demasoni

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 04:56 PM

If you don't believe in speakers break in, then you're in denial. :-)

But then there's no electric current or any type of signal flow through the cone area so how is it possible to break them in? Aluminum cone is pretty rigid and solid so you have got to put them into serious abuse to actually change the way they perform, it's even more ridiculous to break in paper cone woofer!! if any changes shall occur...it has got to be for the worst, so I say hogwash!!

Oh wait, I forgot about the voicecoil, so yes it's definitely possible to break them in or even fry them.

John Kerry style yo....flip-flopping n'sh!t. :-) just kiddinig.


You'll get mix opinions on this, as long as you're happy with your purchase, that's all matter.





Posted by: Kenturkey

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 04:58 PM

demasoni,

Thanks for the comic relief. BTW, you a cichlid fan?
Posted by: bray

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 05:18 PM

I'll have to post some pics of my Discus tanks soon. (my other obsession)
Posted by: demasoni

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 06:00 PM

Kenturkey,

you're welcome :-) I'm glad you like the M3ti, I went from M2i to M22ti and still enjoying them everyday.

Yes I'm a huge african cichlid fan and a local breeder here in Virginia, have one 55 gal. show tank and three 20 gal. long tanks. Demasoni is my favorite, and I have a tank full of 1~1.5" demasoni babies, this little guy is one of my favorite:




I'm line breeding a very rare Aulonocara Rubescen as well:

Posted by: spiffnme

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 06:43 PM

Wow...that's quite the thread hijack. Impressive.


Posted by: bray

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 07:25 PM

This is Lucy

Posted by: CosmicVoyager

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 07:33 PM

The hijack sure beats where it was going
Posted by: WhatFurrer

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 07:37 PM

Yep...

Like the fish.

[Yoga Master Voice]

"Look at the Beautiful Fish...Breathe Deep...Now Relax..."

[/Yoga Master Voice]

WhatFurrer
Posted by: Wid

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 09:23 PM

Makes me want to go fishing .
Posted by: Ajax

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 09:42 PM

Makes me think of A Fish Called Wanda. Sluuuurp!
Posted by: bray

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 09:47 PM

Lucy would be about a $150.00 slurp.
Posted by: CosmicVoyager

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/21/04 10:26 PM

Or finding Nemo.... Yes, I'm a kid at heart .I don't want to grow up.
Posted by: MykeW

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/22/04 12:15 AM

Welcome Kenturkey. Glad to hear you luv the M3's. I'm currently suffering from a bad case of Axiom longing with a projected wait time of 11 weeks.

In reply to:

I guess I should have mentioned... My livingroom sucks for HT. That's why I've gone with direct radiators.




At the risk of un-hijacking your post I thought I would just add that I think you'll find everyone here would agree that the Qs surrounds are incredibly forgiving of placement. I really think you would be better served, particularily if you have a difficult room, with one of Axioms Qs surrounds. I've read of many posters having the Qs placed in un-optimal positions and report great results.

Cheers, Jag
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/22/04 12:40 AM

You could probably do worse than M3s all round except for QS at the back.

Don't let anyone give you any %^$#&%^ about break-in. I received my third delivery of Axiom speakers (well, speaker, it was a VP100) a couple of nights ago and I felt they all sounded pretty "hard" until I "left them playing for the dogs" for a day.

Now, I'm also in the camp that has trouble believing in break-in due to the complete lack of explanation re: what might be breaking in and how, but I (think I) know what I heard.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/22/04 12:58 AM

All fish are the same.







Posted by: demasoni

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/22/04 01:06 AM

Sorry, didn't meant to hijack the thread...haha.

Personally, and from scientifically perspective...I do not believe in speaker break-in, but thousands of professional/audiophile reviewers around the globe believe otherwise, those are the people with years of solid experience under their belts, IF you call it bullsh!t and accuse them of having imagination or having some placebo effect going on, then every single section of their reviews simply won't worth a damn. IF they're indeed exaggerating about breaking in, can you really believe the rest of their test and review??? if that is the case then I suggest you to discredit all reviews from TNT Audio, Soundstage, Hi-Fi Choice, Audiophile Audio and 90% of the magazine and similar websites out there :-)
Posted by: Capn_Pickard

Re: Wow...from a new owner... - 10/22/04 01:59 PM

Say, KenTurkey,

I'd put the LS (left surround) above and behind the couch on the side wall, near the l part of the couch and keep the RS where it is. It seems as though you might get some weird sounding action if you were anywhere but the prime listening position otherwise. I understand that you probably will only watch a movie while sitting there, but its nice to not have to always sit upright in a stationary position, and not swivel you head at all, lest you destroy the delicate sweet spot you've created.

Go with some QS8s or 4s. Place them on the half wall and on the bottom wall. Set 'em up and let em go. The angles on the speakers will probably play very nicely with your couch and will probably soudn good from more positions than the current set-up.

Good luck.

Oh, and fish don't exist. It's just your eyes getting used to watching them swim.