I am looking for the right speakers to fit my surround sound needs. I have a pretty big room that has a high sloping ceiling. This room is 26'X 16'. This room is connected to two other rooms (very open house). The adjoining dining room/kitchen nooks are 10'X 13' and 10'X 11.5' with a wall separating them from each other, both fully open to the gathering room side (where the home theater is going). These speakers need to be hung at least 10 feet high above numerous Windows etc... The ceiling goes up another 10 to 15 feet above where I need to hang these speakers (at least on one side, like I said, it slopes up on one side). Since this is such a big and open area, what speakers would you recommend for a 7.1 set up? I was thinking about axiom speakers. I am getting a Harman Kardon AVR635 to run these speakers. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Like what type of speakers and how many of a certain type for a 7.1 experience for this room. Since the 60” TV will go on top of the fireplace (TV in cattycorner position) where would you recommend hanging the speakers? My speaker budget is around $1500 or so. Thank you for your time.
Front of room 1
Front of room 2
Back of room 1
Back of room 2
Greetings, and welcome.
I've stared at your pictures for about five minutes now. While I'd like to tell you it's not hopeless, that is a very tough room, especially doing everything on the 45 degree angle with the TV in the corner.
Okay, that is a very large room acoustically. I am concerned about your budget, but I do think that the HK is an excellent choice. What percentage of your time will be spent listening to music? If you want satisfying music in that room, you may find that you need floorstanding speakers.
Likewise, to get satisfying home theatre, you WILL need a decent subwoofer, which will take up ~30-35% of your budget right off the top.
Placement is going to be really challenging. You may not wind up going with 7.1; 5.1 or 6.1 could be just as satisfying, not present the placement problems and help your budget. Moreover, I'm not sure how you could configure 7.1 in that room and get everything sounding great. All those angles are freaking me out.
I would strongly encourage you to put the front, main speakers (whether bookshelf or floorstanding) ON THE FLOOR rather than hung up above the windows. It's going to sound a lot better. Put them next to the fireplace. Just live with the idea of partially obstructing the windows.
What are you planning with the center channel?
The Axiom Full Metal Bracket (FMB) may really help you with the mounting. Do you have things wired already? i.e. are you stuck with some placement positions for the surround and rear speakers?
If your budget is pretty firm, I'd suggest the Epic Grand Master 175 package. Don't be afraid to order from the Factory Outlet if you can stand the wait. If you can spend a bit more, I encourage you to consider the M50's rather than the M22's. I don't think you should scrimp on this stuff; Axiom offers excellent value for the dollar, but even here, it will be practically impossible for you to get 7.1 for $1500.
I wish I could help more. I'm sure others will chime in.
You have a beautiful home. Thank you for sharing your project with us.
- Tom
Thanks so much for your response! Yes, these angles are truly scary for sound. I am actually helping a friend set up his new house (the house in the pics). I really don’t think he is firm on his budget. He just wants 7.1 What would you recommend to get this room as close to sounding as good as possible? I have heard nothing but good things about your products, this is why we are coming to you. I do think we need to go with the floor standing like you suggested. Would it be the Grand Master package with two extra speakers. If so, what should these extra speakers be? What would be the highest you would recomment for hanging these speakers? Again, thanks so much for your help!
Edit: Sorry, I forgot to answer some of your questions. We will put the center channel either on the bottom or top of the TV (most likely bottom, more on ear level). We are not fixed to a certain spot to when hanging speakers. They can go anywhere.
Man, I CANNOT get this problem out of my head. Must be the pictures.
Okay, here's an idea.
M22 mains - $440
3 M2 (surround and one in the back for 6.1) - $420
VP100 center - $240
EP175 $530 (some people may suggest the Hsu STF-2 or SVS PB10, which would also be fine choices but would not match the other speakers)
Total $1630 - order all at once and save (5%? not sure) or through the factory outlet. You still need money for stands and/or mounts.
Put the M22's on stands next to the fireplace. Put one M2 in the corner over by the french door, pointing at the side of the couch. Put another M2 in the corner opposite that one, also pointing at the side of the couch. Put the final M2 in the back, by the butler's pantry pointing at the back of the couch.
You will need a Radio Shack SPL meter and a calibration disk (Avia, Home Video Essentials, Sound and Vision, etc.) to balance everything.
This is one of the few cases where I would advocate for "directional" (monopole) surrounds like the M2 instead of the quadpolar QS series. I love my QS8's, but in your room, I think the quadpolar design might not help because of the diamond-shaped viewing area. You could save some money there, too.
Just one Axiomite's opinion. Good luck.
- Tom B.
Thank you very much! I really appreciate your time and expertise! Your suggestions sound like a winner.
All other opinions are welcome as well.
I will definetly be following this thread with interest. My living room has very similar dimensions but I don't have the long wall, it's pretty square. But I have the same issue having the tv in the corner, so I understand the diamond shape problem. I have the sloped ceiling as well. At first I thought monopole surrounds would be good. Then I thought maybe I would still notice an improvement with the QS series. Now I am thinking monopoles again. Yowsers!
Wow.
Tough room sd.
Offhand, M22s up front on the mantle and QS8s all around. Not sure about a centre channel unless you can dangle it from the ceiling or actually manage to sit it atop the tv. You could try going with M60s since the room is so large but you would have to put up with placing them very near or possibly slightly in front of some of the windows to get spacing right.
Budget is an issue for sure. Nail down an exact value and assume that 7.1 for $1500 is either going to be small speakers or one those (eech) home theatre in a box things.
Seems like some people like using a "phantom" center channel - that might be a good option, too, considering how high the TV is. The performance might be just as good as an oddly mounted center, and save some money. It would depend upon how many viewing seats you have and how far apart the mains are. You could try that first (only the front L/R, phantom center) and if it didn't perform as hoped, you could add a dedicated center later.
I'm really thinking that some M50's or M60's would be much better in that room if the budget allows.
Tough but not impossible. I had a similarly sized room. I ended up w/ m22's, VP150, QS8's, and VTF2. Total cost was close to your budget. I saved on the sub by buying bstock. I think I got it for $399 shipped. Also consider that you can subtract the cost from all the referrals you get.
Half serious, because I've already received 2 referral checks from my "weirdly" configured system.
I've added some pics so you can see the progression. The center channel will be challenge, so you'll have to compromise on looks.
Fortunately, I've decided to wall mount my plasma. Picked up some FMS16's and a Salamander twin. Hope to be done in the next 2 weeks, have to run cables and repaint to make everything nice. I'll post when I'm done.
I'd stick w/ 5.1 and put your money there first. Worry about 6.1/7/1 when you've got the main section of the system dialed in.
Room Layout
With CRT
With plasma
I believe the 7.1 is a go. I guess we will adjust the budget accordingly. What do you think about the side speakers? Did you mean that all the surround sound speakers should be M2's or would the QS8's work better for the sides (not the rear), or not a big difference? Please feel free to tell me what you think will work best for the room (I know you only have the pictures to go on). Budget is a concern, but over all performance will be first in thought. I figured it would be best to start there. It is all sounding great though. I can't wait to post pics of the final setup along with review (if you all are interested). Axiom is a great company. Thanks for all the assistants! I haven't even purchased anything yet and the customer service has been excellent.
My room works great w/ 2 x QS8s. I know other prefer direct radiating speakers. You can always wire the room for 7.1 and start off w/ 5.1. Buy speakers to add later on, w/ the wires already in place.
I contemplated 6.1 because I'm rotating my room 45 degrees and thought about leaving wire already in place. But I don' t see enough DVDs in 7.1 to justify it.
What are the room furnishings and drapes etc... going to be like ? I'm wondering (a) how live the room is going to be at the end, and (b) whether there will be drapes over the windows when listening.
I'm guessing (a) pretty live, and (b) no drapes, so one of the layout goals should be to avoid bouncing sound off the windows back to your ears.
I don't think I would even try 7.1 at first, just go with a nice 5.1 system. Running 7.1 with a 45 degree angle means at least one of your rear speakers is going to have to float in the middle of the floor or you're going to have to live with some pretty funky speaker distances.
I'm thinking M50 mains on the floor tucked at the sides of the fireplace (will they be out of the heat there ?), QS8s as surrounds mounted high -- one at the left end of what you call the front wall, and another about 8 feet in from the right end of the side wall with all the windows and doors. VP100 on top of the TV, angled down to point straight at the couch -- anything else is going to have the voices coming from the fireplace rather than the TV, and may barbequeue the center speaker as well.
For a sub I'm thinking one of the 10" Hsu or SVS, whatever you can get the best price on, taking advantage of the HK63x bass management to cross it over real low for the mains and let the 50s carry some of the load.
Going with M3 surrounds instead of QS8s would give you some more sub budget. You have a big listening area there so if you're going to have lots of places to sit then definitely go with QS8s -- if just a single couch then M3s would probably do very well.
One other comment -- definitely give the Axiom folks a call directly and get their recommendations. Number should be at the top of the page.
OK, I think we decided on the M50s for the fronts, VP100 for the center, M3ts for the rear, and QS4's for the sides. We haven't decided on a woofer just yet. Do you think I should use QS4's for the sides or should we stick with M3's like the rear? We are still gonna try for the 7.1. Is there anything that you would change? Will the center VP100 be enough for this room? Thanks again for everyones help!
What are the seating arrangements (furniture) going to be ?
EDIT -- if you're going 7.1 then I think M3 surrounds would probably be fine, with the caveat that I have essentially no 7.1 experience
You're going to be essentially mounting the surrounds in corners at a 45 degree angle, and the ceiling is going to bounce the sound away from the listener, so this is probably one of the few environments where QS's may not be preferable as surrounds.
Do talk to Axiom before you order though... they see more "interesting rooms" than we do.
There is going to be a long couch along the wall with windows. A love seat will be at the end (where the box is in the picture). Set up in a backwards L shape, if you will. This love seat will be the main viewing point. This is a friend’s house, so that is all I know for the moment. I am sure there will be side tables and coffee tables. Etc… But this Love seat is the main focal point.
Another suggestion:
Is that a spool of coax cable coming out of the wall to the left of the single window? Why not put the TV to the left of the single window near the cable (or drape [or blackout] the window and put the TV in front of it)? Then you have more of a dead on angle to the TV...speakers can be to the left and right of the TV (or one to the right of the fireplace) with center above or below the TV...QS8's on the side walls about two thirds of the way back...start with 5.1 and then add the two rears later if you desire.
This would still accomodate the seating arrangement with the love seat as primary seating area and the long couch in front of the three windows.
This would eliminate the unusual angle for the TV as well as help to eliminate the reflections from the ceiling. Not to mention if you actually use the fireplace, heat still rises...Not sure if I would want to risk a 60" TV above a fireplace...
Just another idea...
WhatFurrer
Yes. Yes !!!
That would also be a much better setup for 7.1. You want some distance between the listening position and the rear speakers. I don't suppose flipping the couch so that it faces the windows (on the "other side of the love seat" is a possibility ? That way it would have a good view of windows, fireplace AND tv.
In reply to:
Yes. Yes !!!
I'll have what he's having.
and that is probably the only reference to Rob Reiner's mom that has ever been posted on this board...as well it should be.
That was too funny.
That is a better idea for the couch. Hopefully I can talk him into it. It would definitely make more since from an audio perspective. He is firm on the TV position though. I asked if he would ever use the fire place. He said yes. I about hit the floor. Not a good idea with all that equipment. Once again, thanks for everyone’s suggestions! What did you all think about the side speakers Q8’s or M3’s?