Interesting review .

LINK

Great article Dennis, Thanks

Would help if I found the typo errors before the stupid time limit for editing expired.

Great review, I cant wait for my 500 to grow up, I guess my house has to grow first.

Thanks for the link Dennis, it was good reading.

The 600 only takes about a 15" x 18" area of floor space, so it is not that big really, only in height

Waaaa, why dont I have that in my dorm room...waaaaaa.

Thanks for the post. Love my 80s.

Not trying to start a war here, but here is something regarding "burn in"

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the Axioms were returned to the room and driven at moderate levels for a few days while I was at work. With less than 20 hours on them, I settled in for another listen and was surprised to hear a complete lack of the aforementioned treble prominence. As a matter of fact, not only were the speakers not bright, edgy or sibilant, they were downright smooth and civilized

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Here is more, further down:

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It took only a very few more hours for the midrange to reach its full potential.

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From the review, it appears that this guy seem to know a bit on audio...

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Not trying to start a war here...

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Me neither, but I'd like to try to make my point of view clear, and I hope, in the process, I don't offend anyone.

I am a burn-in skeptic. While I can't speak for other skeptics, I want to assure those who are burn-in believers that I fully believe they perceive a difference in the sound of the speakers after a certain period of time. However, the question remains, is that change actually in the sound of the speaker, or is it a change in the listener's perception of the sound of the speakers, i.e. is there an acclimatization of one's brain to the sound of the speaker?

One of my fears is that burn-in believers interpret the concept that the change is in the perception of the sound of the speakers, rather than in the speakers themselves, means "I think the change is all in your head." While that is an accurate summation of my point of view, that phrase is NOT synonymous with "I think your nuts," or "you're fooling yourself," or "boy, are you stupid." None of that is what I believe, or am trying to say.

Human beings are remarkably adaptable creatures. Many years ago, my sister had a railroad track just behind the house in which she lived. When I'd visit, the trains would rattle my fillings. When I asked how she stood it, her response was (paraphrasing, now) "what trains." She had become acclimated to the point that she didn't really notice the trains at all.

Our perceptions tend to be "relative" rather than "absolute." If my diet is a bland one, and I eat a hot pepper, my reaction of "wow that's hot" is quite different from someone who is a steady consumer of jalapeños and cayenne, who looks at me like I'm nuts, and says "whadaya mean 'hot'?"

If one is used to the sound of speaker A, then that sound is his/her benchmark. It is what he/she is acclimated to and perceives as "normal." Now that person purchases speaker B, which, lets say, has more treble energy. First impression is that this is a "bright" speaker." After a random period of time, this person becomes acclimated to speaker B's sound, it no longer sounds "bright," and IT'S sound becomes the benchmark, the "normal" sound. Now, this person visits a friend who still has a pair of speaker A, and that speaker sounds "muffled." This explains why, to some, a given speaker is "bright," while, to others, the same speaker sounds "neutral," or even "muffled." One's perception depends upon that to which one is acclimated.

Also, I consider the senses, or, rather, the interpretation by the brain of what the senses send to it, to be surprisingly unreliable. I cite, as evidence, optical illusions, the example of a pilot who's senses tell him he's diving when he's actually climbing, 10 witnesses to a crime with different descriptions of the criminal, and hearing a noise which seems to be coming from where it's not, etc.

Here is a post that pretty much sums up my take on break-in,

Chu Gai's post on break-in. It's got some interesting stuff.

DISCLAIMER: My post is NOT an attempt to change anyone's mind. I completely support other folk's right to believe differently than I. Of course I think they're mistaken. They, of course, think I'M mistaken. We're both entitled to our opinions and to express those opinions. No problem.

Oh who cares one way or the other about speaker break-in, speaker wires, warm or bright amps, clean or dirty power, etc…………Folks who insist on arguing those points really need to get out more.

I just want to know more about this problem the reviewer mentioned with having M80’s in close proximity to the EP 600 in a small room.

I will have the same situation where my 600 will be within 2’ of one of my M80’s.

Sorry if you're offended, Mike, but you do have the option of not reading the thread if you don't like it.

Jack:
I think that was about the most succinct and well-reasoned argument I've read on the "con" side of speaker break-in.

Thanks for taking the time! No, if we could just find an "FAQ" area to reference it.....

Nice post Ajax. I don't know whether 'break in' is a real phenomenon or not. I know that the guy who designed and built my Thiel CS 3.6's says they need breaking in and I don't think he's looking to fool anyone ... they are GREAT sounding speakers. (ended up picking up a pair of used but mint CS 3.6's instead of going with the M80V2's and saved a few bucks.) I break-in components, but am usually not around for the process. I just leave 'em on set the CDP to 'repeat' and then when the weekend comes, kick back and listen to the music.

BTW, Ajax, thanks for the civilized discussion on the subject. You brought some needed class to this forum.

Mark and 2x6, thank you for the complimentary comments. They are much appreciated.

Great post Jack and thanks for taking the time to post it. I had thought that the Bluemoon review was a safe post and would be enjoyed by all. Lately it seems most everything becomes battle of who is right or wrong.

Jack, I'd like echo everyone's thoughts with a "thanks". Very well-stated and well-considered post. I, too, don't know if speaker break-in is an actual phenomenon, but I do know it takes quite some time for my ears to get used to a new speakers sound. That's why it's so hard for me to listen to speakers in stores because I need to spend some serious time with them to discover all the nuances.

While all the technical explanations of why speaker break-in should not occur make sense to me, I also like to believe in the fact that there are "intangibles" in the audio world, that are not necessarily measureable, but at least perceptible to one's enjoyment. And if one's enjoyment can be heightened by believing in such an intangible, then it is certainly well worth it in my book.

After all, we are all in this for the fun of it.

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Lately it seems most everything becomes battle of who is right or wrong.

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And exactly what the hell do you mean by that?

The interesting thing, and the reason why I feel quarreling about speaker break-in is unnecessary (do not confuse "quarreling with "discussing"), is that, whether it is the speaker's sound that changes, or our perception of the speaker's sound that changes, we are ALL going to run our speakers for xx number of hours, and this phenomenon, whatever it is, is going to occur, with the result being, basically, the same, regardless.

One thing I would think that both sides of the discussion could agree on, is that no final assessment of a speaker's quality should be made without spending a reasonable amount of time listening to them. Like you, Sean, I can't make an educated assessment of a speaker based on a 20 or 30 minute listening session in a store. For that reason, I really appreciate the internet direct option of listening under controlled conditions, in MY room, with MY equipment, for up to 30 days. Doing so, substantially reduces the possibility of being influenced by factors over which I have no control, such as my own biases and anxieties, or a salesperson telling me what I'm hearing, etc.

Good one, Mark.

I agree, Jack. The best thing about speaker break-in or ear break-in is that it's absolutely free, and will eventually happen by just listening!

Jack,

I came across wrong and sometime assume that people can read through the lines and get what I consider, an obvious point. I was actually agreeing with you, but just being very blunt, and I was not responding to you specifically. By saying “Who cares”, my meaning was, does it really matter? Or, why would anyone want to argue such points one way or the other? And, those audio know-it-all’s who absolutely just have to argue these points must not have anything better to do with their time than pick pointless fights and arguments.

And, if this thread was titled “speaker break in, is it for real?” or something to that effect, I most certainly would not have read it no more that open any “speaker wire” and “warm AVR” threads. But it wasn’t.

Understood, Mike. I misinterpreted your meaning. I apologize.

I've always wondered what other people are hearing/perceiving when they hear my system for the first time? What are their pre-conceived notions? How does it effect their experience?

Except for one buddy, I've never gotten a "Holy sh*t!! That sounds amazing!!" (Which is exactly what I am thinking while I'm standing there showing them.) Now most of them would never think of spending $1000cdn on their ENTIRE system, let alone $4k just for speakers. I don't think they even realize what a steal they are at that price.

I am waiting for the custom finishes to be anounced to order an EP600 sub. Therefore, I was concerned with the issue of the close proximity between the EP600 and the M80. I wrote to Axiom and this is what they responeded.

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From: Nat
To: JC
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 9:37 PM
Subject: Question

Hi,

I was recently reading a review for the M80 and the EP600 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/axiom/axiom_2.html

The review talks about a ground loop that become effective if the EP600 is less than 3 feet away from the M80. In my setup, the subwoofer is less than 1 feet away from the left speaker. Is that a problem, and am I likely to get loop issues ?

Regards

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Hi,

If you are using the line level input on your Axiom EP600 subwoofer that will not be an issue; it happens only if you are using the high level inputs.

Have a great weekend !

jc

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Wait, he did that review using the high level inputs?

My head asplode.

Nat, I currently have my EP600 less than 18 inches from my M80's without ever having experienced the issues described in the 6moons article. Oh, my 600 is connected at the line level connection.

This combination of M80/EP600 sounds amazing, especially when I use the "pure" stereo mode on my Denon reciever. I have actually had to put my ear to my VP150 during this playback in order to determine whether it was on or was this the M80's blending to create this illusion.

You will love this combination... Bud

I would not add a word to the reviews here from Jack and others, I myself am not sure whether it is my equipment or my ears to "break in". However, many months ago, when I initially posted something about what I perceived as my Rotel CDP sounding harsh at the beginning, I even read something like "wipping the spit off his/her computer screen", in disgust on my finding. We have lots of improvement out here!!