I am doing some research before I buy a new home theater system. I was looking at buying the M80 or the M60 floor speakers and epic 5.1 system. I was looking to buy an A/V receiver - Yamaha RX-V2600 or Denon 3805 that pushes 120 watt per channel. Would it benefit to have the M80 that can handle 400 watts or would I need a power amp? Would 120 watts be loud enough with the M60s? The sub woofer 350 or 500 -- is it worth the price difference?

Some Yamaha receivers have had trouble driving the 4 ohm load of M80 speakers. I think the 2600 is OK but hopefully others will chime in.

For any given receiver and power rating the M80s will give you more sound than the 60s, due to slightly higher sensitivity and the 4-ohm design usually pulling a bit more power from the amp than you would get at 8 ohms. You definitely don't *need* more power to drive M80s, it's just that if you have a big room or want high SPLs the M80s will handle more power better than the 60s.

Most people run M60s very happily with less than 120W/chan, although receiver power ratings are kind of a "hint" at best these days. The Denon 380x is very popular with M60s and will also drive M80s, so no worries there.

General consensus seems to be that the EP350 is a good sub and typical for that size and power but the EP500 is a monster by comparison, ie the difference is significant. Main differences are (a) the 500 extends noticeably deeper into the low bass (sub 20 Hz) and (b) the 500 can play typical movie content at higher levels without distress.

JET777 Welcome.
The first question would be is how large is your room. The Denon will drive the M80's without problem and drive the 60's or 80's to very loud levels. The M80's will go louder than the M60's with or without an amp.
Imo, having owned both the EP350 and the EP500 the EP500 far outclasses the EP350 and is more than worth the price difference.

The room is 15x15 with vaulted ceiling. Thanks for your guys help.

The bass on the 60's and 80's is very similar. My room is double your size at 30ft x 31ft x 9ft and my 60's go loud enough for me with my Denon 2805. They are rated to handle a 250watt receiver, so they are no slouch. Don't get all worried about wattage, there is really not much difference between an 80watt/ch AVR versus a 100watt/ch. I would think the 60's would blow your mind in a 15' x 15' room.

I've owned a 350 and a 500. The 500 is in a league of its own, but the 350 is no slouch. I used the 350 in my large room and it did fine. Yes the 500 moves my house off of its foundation, but its worth it.

The RX-v2600 would have no problems with 4-ohm speakers at all. It would drive those easily.

Any suggestions on a power amp for the M80s? I think I am going to go with separates, probably Denon 2803 or Yamaha 2600; 2 channel power amp to power the M80s, and get the EP500 - you guys talked me into it. Thanks for the help

The Outlaws seem to be pretty popular around here, and I beleive like Axiom you get a 30 day trial.

Here's a sweeeet amp I'd highly recommend. If you're going the separates route, seriously look into buying your amp used. Many good amps are built like tanks and will easily last for a good decade or two. I've owned an Odyssey Stratos myself and can vouch for it's quality. I've also owned a few Rotel products and loved them as well. The Rotel RB-1080 is one of their more popular two-channel models.

Anybody heard of Parsound Halo A21 - that looks decent... Rotel looks awesome too, what is the $ ratio for spending on amps vs. speaker, I mean does it make sense to spend $3g on speaker and $3g on A/V receiver and power amp? Maybe I should step it down to Outlaw???

I think there are a couple of very happy Parasound Halo owners on the boards. One ended up getting Halos because his Outlaw multichannel amps were having a tough time keeping up with sustained high volumes into M80s.

EDIT -- I should mention that the Outlaw Monoblocks never had a heat problem, just the 7 channel driving 5 M80s and a couple of QS8s real loud. In some states that would be considered abuse, but apparently not in California

In terms of where to spend your money, it seems that up to a point (say $3K for speakers) you get the best bang for the buck by spending more on speakers than on electronics, after that all I can say is there is less agreement on what you get for the extra $$

I think my system spending was about typical if you want some numbers. Very roughly, in $CDN not including tax, I spent :

- 21% ($1500) for receiver and DVD/CD player
- 51% ($3700) for speakers (including subwoofer)
- 28% ($2000) for display (projector + DIY screen)

In this price range I would partition money about the same way if I were doing it over again, ie I would spend relatively more on speakers than electronics.

Jet, if you don't have any significant budget restraints there's no problem with the separate amp proposal. Keep in mind though that the M80s are slightly above average in sensitivity and are by no means difficult to power. Especially with the EP500 taking most of the lowest bass load in a type of active biamping arrangement, either the 2600, 3805, or other similar receiver should drive the speakers with ease. In any case, the cost-effective route would be to try it first rather than assuming that more money needs to be spent.

I will second Spiff's recommendation for the Odyssey. Great amp with a great warranty (which I believe is transferable). I have the smaller Khartago amp and really enjoy it.

I really like hearing from you guys that have done that and been there -- good sound advice - no pun intended... I think I will try the Denon 4306 and see if that puts out enough juice - if not then go with the power amp. Kind of off the stereo subject, does anybody know if the HDMI 1.3 version will go with the current A/V receivers??? Have you heard of people waiting to buy A/V receivers until 1.3 comes out?

JETT the neat deal about using the receiver is that you can always add a power amp at a later date if you feel you may need to *and* because most processors are costing a small fortune nowadays you can gradually add an amp here and there 'till you have a complete separate system using the receiver as the processor.

I'm using an H/K receiver and have my 80s pre-outed to a Rotel RB-1080 amp and am quite happy with the setup. I was originally going to replace the H/K with a processor but for the 3k US dollars expenditure on the processor I've since decided to axe that idea and use the receiver as the processor and add additional power amps for the remaining speakers.

And BTW ... Welcome!

Odyssey Monoblocks - Does anybody have these, have you had a good / bad experience with them. Seems like a good / practical way to power the M80s...