Looking for comments on bulk 12 gauge speaker wire

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Monster is the Bose of wiring. They get by on their name alone. There are plenty of better cables-sure they are (at least) a few hundred$ more but they reduce the brightness and increase the soundstage in ways that the monster cables simply cannot do. I've also found that some of the really high end cables 'bleed' less noise over to video and provide a crisper picture, especially for front projection systems.

I'll take placebo effects for 500, Alex.

I've never seen a double blind test proving that the difference between cables is actually audible. Unless you have done so yourself, I challenge your statement.

Everything that looks space age is better. That's a fact and you can check it on wikipedia of you want. The equation is simple-goodnees is directly proportionate to space age look. I'm really hoping that alienware starts making cables-they could then spray them with Ferrari paint which is known to be a better insulator than just rubber alone. Space age cables with ferrari paint would not only sound better, but because of the paint the signal would get to the speakers just a little bit faster (less wind resistance through the cable) causing a lighter load on the amp.

Now, you can CAREFULLY read my first post or we can continue this conversation. Your choice, but I think you'll agree that I have the upper hand here.

Goodness, you certainly have a better sense of humor about it than most people we hit with the double blind test science bit.

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... the signal would get to the speakers just a little bit faster (less wind resistance through the cable) causing a lighter load on the amp.

Well now, THAT's interesting! Because it means that wireless speakers must put too much of a strain on thier amps because it's ALL AIR they're travelling thru! Signals in wires must travel faster with less wind!? Brillant!

I thought that it was the Scientology cables that were the best because they eliminated the destructive effects of thetans. Damn you, Xenu!

Trust me there is NO difference in how wire sounds!

NOT ONCE has anyone EVER proven that they can tell a difference between fancy cables or even fancy amplifiers.

The only thing that matters with cables is that you should get a slightly larger wire for longer cable runs, and 12-gauge is thick enough for 30 foot runs.

There are actually cables that cost 10,000 dollars, and you should hear people talk about those.. "smoooooth" "airy" "warm" "soft" blah blah blah - trust me, they only hear this stuff because their brains think they are supposed to sound that way. A blind test would prove they are just dreaming.

btw I use the 12-gauge bulk wire for my rear surrounds and they sound, um, like they are supposed to.

To Axiom's credit, they don't claim their speaker wire sounds any better either. What it does seem to be, based on posts I have seen here, is :

- nice looking
- very flexible, ie it lies flat on the floor rather than twisting up and tripping you
- easy to work with, easy to strip etc...
- less likely to corrode than some of the cheap bulk wire

That's why I decided to order some. If the wire is easy to work with then I'm willing to pay a little bit extra.

I agree regarding inaudible differences with wire. A friend of a friend of mine interned at some high-end wire company (trying to find the name of it) in california. He said they have a $200k system in a critical listening room for A-B comparisons. So maybe there is a difference, it just takes a rediculous setup to hear it. I can't imagine a company spending that much money if they know all that matters is the conductivity. But you won't see me spending too much on wires, its a complete waste of money.

If someone buys expensive speaker wire and hears an improvement in the sound (even though it may just be in their head) isn't it still worth it? Wether the improvement is real or imagined, the listener still gains something from it.

I have the terminated Axiom speaker cables, and although I don't claim to hear an improvement in the sound, I just like knowing that the signal is going through a high quality cable. Plus, they are really thick and heavy-duty and look nice

(also harder to work with though.. but great once you get them in place).

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If someone buys expensive speaker wire and hears an improvement in the sound (even though it may just be in their head) isn't it still worth it?

Ah ha! Yes. Several questions/observations come to mind.

Can we agree there is a difference between the following:

1. It can be proven scientifically that wire A provides better technological performance than wire B; and

2. In blind A/B testing, I can discern a difference between wire A and wire B; and

3. In blind testing, I can not only reliably discern a difference between wire A and wire B, but also have a preference between the two; and

4. It makes me feel happy to have wire A.

I don't think ANYBODY would fault somebody for taking the latter position. It's those first three that get contentious.

You also raise the question of Value, which I think is fascinating. Doing so clearly involves not only subjectivity but also economics. Even if I could honestly fulfill criteria 1-3 above, I would clearly have a different level of economic pain for incremental sonic gain than someone with greater material wealth and/or higher level of passion.

I say, get whatever makes you happy, but don't expect others to idly suffer derision for their own choices, which are necessarily built on their own honest beliefs and experiences regarding the matrix of science, perception and economics involved.

>> If someone buys expensive speaker wire and hears an improvement in the sound (even though it may just be in their head) isn't it still worth it? Wether the improvement is real or imagined, the listener still gains something from it.

Absolutely. The problem is that an "imagined" improvement is not repeatable, ie just because I think my XYZ brand cable sounds better doesn't mean you will think it sounds any better.

I purchased my speaker cable at Blue Jeans, not because I thought they would sound better, but I liked the look of the cable as well as having the wires in a white jacket with black and red inner conductors. I always found it difficult to match the positive and negative cables on wires such as monster due to the clear insulation on the wires. To me it was worth a little extra cost for ease of use.

I don't know if it is a 'standard' or not but I usually go with monochrome 14 or 12 awg 'zip cord' and rely on the 'rough is red' method to tell them apart. Usually one side will have little ridges down the length of the wire. I don't know about Monster or the other brands - this is strictly el-cheapo-per-foote brand.

-Brian

At the risk of repeating myself (thereby adding to the general nausea of the regular forum members), I firmly believe "because I like it," and "because I want it" are two perfectly valid reasons for any purchase.

As Tom and John so sagely point out, the problem occurs when I tell others they ought to like or want it (or not like or want it, depending upon which side of the argument "I" is on), and couch my opinion in terms implying that, if "they don't agree with "I", then clearly "they" are subhuman creatures incapable of seeing the bright light of wisdom and reality.

It is always sagacious to state one's opinions, if at all possible, in a manner which allows others who believe differently from oneself, to maintain their dignity and self respect. It is my opinion there is, or at the least should be, room for differing opinions on this board. YMMV

Now if I only could live up to my own advice.

Jeez, Jack. I thought for just a split second there that you might need to increase your dosage until you snuck "sagacious" in there.

oh, and my mileage doesn't vary.

I did increase my dosage.

Maybe that's where "sagacious" came from.

Happy to be of help ...

Bill's in the mail ...

I recently found some leftover LV cable at home and thought it or 12 gauge LV cable would work well for audio. I looked at 12 gauge at Home Depot which was about $30.00 for 100'. Sure it's black, but for some home applications it would work well such as on dark hardwood floors, carpet, or 'hidden'. Not sure if it's 'oxygen free' or whatnot, but its got a high strand count and audio signals should be well within the normal 12V that this cable is typically used with.

Any thoughts?

Hobart, that cable is advertised for use with 12v landscaping lights and also outdoor speakers, but any two conductor power cable also has to be suitable for use with 220v lines that have a voltage peak a little over 300. Audio amplifiers, which typically have a power supply section maximum voltage around 40, are no problem.

Also, all commercial copper wire is better than 99.9% pure, so don't worry about either oxygen or whatnot. It's often not understood that a speaker wire simply serves as a guide rail for the electromagnetic wave traveling along its outside. The energy that penetrates into the wire and latches onto the electrons for guiding is lost as heat and doesn't directly contribute to the sound. There's no possible way for using "lighting wire" to be harmful to the sound(or any other wire to be more helpful).

I didn't see any issues by using LV cable. I also found one mention of it by Roger Russell ( former McIntosh R&D ) at this website:
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable

Also of interest is Russell's mention of Home Depot 'speaker wire' which oxidized after 6 months.

I tried to find the cable's voltage rating to see if it would be NEC or NFPA -approved for in-wall installation, but I could not find it. I suspect it's rated for 150 volts at best, even with it's relatively large dialectric (insulation).

In the meantime, I found what would appear to be a better alternative at Amazon with their 'Metra' wire offerings. 2x50' of 10 gauge was about $30.00 with free shipping. 12 gauge was a few dollars more.

I got my speakers and the axiom speaker cable. The cable is very nice-for 90 cents a foot it's a great deal. It is laying flat, was easy to connect to my banana plugs, and has a sturdy feel. It comes on a spool that my 7 month old thinks is the coolest toy ever.

Hi: I ordered 62 feet,two runs of 31 feet and they sent me 71 feet, all on a spool, bonus!! Huck

i plan on getting 160ft from bluejeanscable.com because they are rating for inwall installation and I really like how the PVC is around 2 individually wrapped 12 guage. Their standard cable is grey jacket with black and white interal 12 guage wires.

at only $0.38/ft i think thats a killer deal, $60 for 160ft of 12 guage thats rated for in wall installation?

-Hutz

I was looking at BlueJeanCable initially, but then graphicsman suggested I check out monoprice.com. They have some really cheap cable there and it seems to look normal, so I'll give it a try. Also the cheapest banana plugs I've seen that actually look good.

I purchased most of my cable from monoprice, and some from bluejeans and have been very happy with the quality.

Monoprice is amazing!

could not agree more with brother bob. save your money, go to home depot. i think hd knows this they have increased the prices

When the house was built I bought 12ga in wall from Bluejeans.
Very good price for very substantial wire. I got the Axiom
bulk cable, it's very very flexible and lays nicely along
the floor.