One of the great attributes of my M22 Axioms is the great stereo soundstage that they provide - pretty wide, with a solid center image.
Yesterday (no - not the song!) I played Rubber Soul - and was pretty surprised that there was basically no stereo image. The sound seemed to come directly from the left and right speakers - very localized. I also noticed several sounds, whispers,vocal harmonies and such that I have not heard before - but once again coming directly from the left and right channels. I found as I increased the volume, it did sound somewhat fuller. The vocal harmonies on Here, There and Everywhere were impressive - many intricate vocal pans that I had not noticed before, including some Lennon vocals on that track!
The cd tracks are certainly not compressed, but my initial hypothesis is that since the left and right channels were recorded with different sounds eminating from each channel (ie - vocals on right side, guitar on left, etc.), I am not getting a good stereo image. Anyone have similar experiences?
I have the M22's set as an eguilateral triangle, slightly toed in. I played Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here and immediately the stereo image/soundstage reappeared from the Axioms. Perhaps if I move the M22's in closer I would get a more cohesive image, but it's not too practical to move the setup every time I want to hear Beatles....
I will pop in Sgt. Pepper's tonight and see what I get.
That's probably exactly right about the Beatles. They weren't using real stereo, just dropping the different tracks on separate channels. It'll be worse with Sgt. Pepper.
IIRC in my college days, if you played a track from Sgt. Pepper's Lovely Rita - towards the end of the song if you played just the left (or was it right?) channel - there were all moans and breathing - with no music. The other channel contained the music.
I know the mid 60's to late 60's Beatles experimented with different tracking and recording effects - but were the early albums only in mono - and then re-mixed to stereo?
That's probably exactly right about the Beatles. They weren't using real stereo, just dropping the different tracks on separate channels. It'll be worse with Sgt. Pepper.
Same with Hendrix.
It's typical of studio recordings. If they do not mix to use phased stereo, you can get some pretty weird result. Even more so if you try to use something like PLII/Neo:6/Logic7.
One time I was doing a speaker comparison and thanks to the Beatles I realized I had one pair hooked up backwards. On all the other speakers the vocals were coming from the right, until I switched to the one set of speakers and the vocals were coming from the left. D'oh!
I had Abbey Road on yesterday (listening with a Scott 222 tube amp, M60s, Velodyne sub, Dual 1219 turntable with AT 440ML cartridge), and I commented that imagined that it had to be very close to what they actually heard in the studio given the tubes and the state of speakers in 1969. Amazing what you can hear with these speakers! The bubbles on Octopus's Garden make me giggle.
That sounds like a fun set-up, Zoe! You're gonna give me an itch to look at turntables. . .like I need another thing to spend my money on.
OK, I just finished listening to Van Morrison's Astral Weeks on vinyl with the above mentioned system. Unbelievable. Actually, I've loved this album for a long time, but I just don't think I have ever heard it until these speakers. Unreal. I'm truly blown away right now. I had to come over to the computer to find out more about how it was recorded and the producer. Amazingly, it was recorded in only two days, from what I've read. I'm speechless. Doesn't happen that often.
Look at turntables! I highly recommend my Dual 1219. It's an idler wheel, like the Thorens 124 only less than half the price. I doubt I'd hear much of a difference if I A/Bd the two, but I hope to try that one day. Do some research on them and you'll soon learn they are sleepers. IMHO.
I'm planning on ordering an
Audio-Technica or a
Technics turntable this week...
I haven't had a turntable since I was in high school and spent $300 on a Pioneer/Shure combination that costs as much as my car!
The Technics MKII is the DJ standard. I looked at them long and hard because I wanted something that was new and wouldn't break down on me every six months. I'm not at all a technician, so this was ultra-important to me. I had just spent six months not listening to vinyl because my Dual stopped working properly. In the end I got her fixed and bought an inexpensive Dual 502 in mint condition as a back-up in case that ever happens again. One day, if a 1200 fell into my hands, I wouldn't say no! Enjoy!
AT makes the best carts on the market these days. The AT 440MLa is incredible sounding. Sadly, the price seems to have gone up in the last six months. Good thing I've got one extra on hand, but I wish I had more! $200 a pop would make me think twice about when I use it, which isn't the way I listen to music—ever.
I like that Technics turntable Mark, reminds me of the Technics turntable I had in the mid 70's, I believe I'm going to end up getting me another turntable one of these days.
Also ... I do have several vinyl albums to keep me and a turntable busy for a little while but am curious to know if there are a few places that still sell vinyl, last I heard they were about 30 bucks a piece?
Technics has always made great turntables and I still have mine. I intially had a Thorens 125 but my turntable from 1978 on was a Technics 1700. Besides its ruggedness and durability, the quartz lock pitch control on that technics TT made sure that the vinyl always rotated at the right speed. Sounded great with all sorts of cartrdges though in the later years I went with the Ortofon MM line. The more I think of it, I'm amazed it survived the raucous parties from the 70's and 80's.
I went with a VPI Scout earlier this year with a Dynavector 20x-HO MC cartridge which in many respects is a better TT/cartridge combo but I doubt it will last as long as the Technics.
The 1700 is what I had John ... can kick myself in the buttocks for letting that thing go at a garage sell a few years ago, although I now can't recall but I'd hate to think how little it probably went for at our moving sell.
Hey Rick, mine is sitting idle at the moment but its one of the few components I've had that never let me down or needed servicing so its staying. They come up for sale every once in a while at ridiculously low prices. The sl-1700 was based on the 1200 platform but with that semi-automatic feature which I miss on the VPI Scout.
Here you go for nostalgia.
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/technics/sl-1700.shtmlI've been getting back into vinyl since early last year and its a no contest for dynamic range and musicality compared to cds. I've been rediscoving my vinyl collection though half of it is too scratchy to listen too. The stuff that's in good condition never sounded better. In fact just this morning I dug out my original pressing of Tom Petty's "Damn the Torpedoes" and "Hard Promises" from around 1980 while I was doing my morning excercises.
Its amazing how much better they sound than the cd versions.
My TT from high school was the
Pioneer PL-518 with a Shure V15 cartridge.
I had it sitting on a big "L" shaped entertainment Center that I built in shop class. The base held a TV with cassettes and LPs below. The left of the base held the TT with a "rack" above (making the "L"). The "rack" had two switches mounted on it; the first was for a hidden, "under-shelf" 15-watt light above the turntable and the other switch operated a muffin fan that exhausted air upwards from the top-mounted integrated amp. The TT sat on a "floating lid" box that was filled with sand that helped reduce infrasonics.
Someday, I'll have to dig up a photo! It was pretty cool looking for when the ladies came over....
I remember those Pioneer TTs.
Very solid and sounded great with shure cartridges. Its amazing how this stuff is getting popular again. What's even more amazing is how cheap you can get them for, though prices on the well built vintage TTs are rising now as more people (re)discover them.
The wow & flutter spec seems much better for the Technics.. assuming it isn't a misprint.
No misprint. It's one of the things that Technics TT are noted for. In their day ,and still today I guess,Technics direct drive "quartz lock" system keeps playback speed irregularities much lower than most other similar priced turntables.
My TT from high school was the
Pioneer PL-518 with a Shure V15 cartridge.
I had it sitting on a big "L" shaped entertainment Center that I built in shop class. The base held a TV with cassettes and LPs below. The left of the base held the TT with a "rack" above (making the "L"). The "rack" had two switches mounted on it; the first was for a hidden, "under-shelf" 15-watt light above the turntable and the other switch operated a muffin fan that exhausted air upwards from the top-mounted integrated amp. The TT sat on a "floating lid" box that was filled with sand that helped reduce infrasonics.
Someday, I'll have to dig up a photo! It was pretty cool looking for when the ladies came over....
L shapes...... (Hmmmmm)
Undershelving..... (Is this underwear for the exceptionally sagged?)
Floating Shelves (anti-gravity?)
Muffin Fans (eaten with mushroom tea, perhaps?)
Infrasonics ??????
I think Mark found his old turntable with a bag of some other organic stuff he owned in the 60s at the time.
Just Kidding Man! No really! Peace Out!
think Mark found his old turntable with a bag of some other organic stuff he owned in the 60s at the time.
Sixties? I wasn't even in grade school yet! I graduated HS in '81.... And no, I had no such luck as finding "accessories" with my TT!
I sold my TT about 5 years ago at a yard sale. It wouldn't hold it's speed and the rubber feet rotted right off... I lifted it and the feet stayed there!
Just like Joe Walsh. And Audi.
I knew my auddio setup was missing something- I believe I have a Marantz turntable stowed away (have no idea if it's any good).
Well I took Sgt. Pepper for a spin, there was a tad bit more stereo imaging, but it was a rather small sweet spot. There are some distinct left/right channel sounds, but the majority of the songs have vocals, bass and drums centered in the mix, with guitar and miscellaneus synth and orchestra effects panning left and right. Definitely a fuller sound compared to Revolver.