Well I just got back home and unloaded the 74lb SVS after a rather quick session at Mojo's, as always it was a pleasure to get together with him once again.

After some initial listening and finally equalizing sub output(dead battery in the SPL meter), we had to run the SVS at near max volume output in order to have the subs equalized in Mojo's large room. We put in the venerable depth charge scene from U-571, as we both know this scene very well by now. The SVS appeared to have more impact than the EP600 but the EP600 was able to fill the room with LFE easier than the little SVS. With each explosion there was a definite slam from the PB12 while the EP600 would hit, but not as pronounced as the SVS. I prefered the SVS in this instance.

We moved on to the Eagles DVD - Live from Melbourne, Disc 2 - Dirty Laundry. The thump from the SVS was very pronounced compared to the Axiom, Tex's wife said she preferred the smoother more subdued sound of the EP600 than the harder punchiness of the PB12-NSD. I liked the pounding of the sub during this song, but after awhile at the loud levels we were listening, I too think I would have preferred the Axiom over the SVS for a long listening session. I know in my own house I usually never play it that loud and do not find the sub to be that over the top with the low notes, so I am not sure what to make of the difference. I guess maybe I am not as much of a bass freak I think.

Well I am still deciding on whether or not to bring the big PB13 - Ultra in and have a listen or sit tight with the PB12 which I am very happy with.

Interesting. The EP600 is such a monster sub compared to the PB12-NSD.

So when are ya gonna put it up against an EP350 and how do you think the 350 will fair?

I think volume-wise, the 600 and SVS are pretty close.

I wish we had the 350 to compare to but going from memory, the 350 does not have as much "thump" to it and is definitely more elegant with its presentation. I remember that I was very impressed with the 350 when it came to music. For movies, I wouldn't say that the SVS trounces it but it does have an advantage. I wish Axiom would combine the "thump" of the 350 with the smoothness and transparency of the 600. Maybe that's not technically possible. I don't know but I'll keep harping on it until I get a satisfactory answer .

I personally would take the 350 over this SVS. But I would take the SVS over all of the other subs that people brought over. Jason, can you remind us what they all were?

Also see my post on this same topic.

What exactly does elegant mean? Do you think it is more detailed than the SVS the way the M80 reveals more detail than the M60?

I must say, even thought I didn't compare the 350 to any other sub, it seemed very good with music. The bass definately became more transparend with the sub.

I know Axiom makes very good speakers across the line, but it seems like the sub market is a lot more competitive.

Elegant means that I hear textures rather than one or two single notes (boom, boom). Does that help ? It's so difficult to describe but once you hear it you'll totally understand.

I know exactly what you mean. Put another way, you hear the instrument as opposed to the music/notes. I experienced a little of that when I listened to Paradigm studio 40s then 60s. I got that in spades with the vp350.

Sigh, I guess that means I probably wouldn't be satisfied with the SVS PB10-NSD (or whatever all the right letters are) at $500.

All the subs we have heard to date would be your EP600, A Hsu STF3 Mk2(Not sure if was mk2 or mk3), My old piece of ...., your Sony, the EP400, the Velodyne DLS-5000R, The EP350v3 and now the PB12-NSD.

I have also heard the Paradigm DSP3100 which I liked quite abit, and it sounded much closer to the EP350v3 only it couldn't pressurzie the room nearly as well as the 12" driver but it did come close and it is a bit less than the EP350 at $599.

Fred, if the EP400 hurt your ears you wouldn't want the PB12, but the PB 10 might be better as the 10" won't pressurize the room as much. I would recommend you have a listen to the aforementioned DSP-3100 at your local Paradigm retailer, I think you might like it very much. I am still trying to get my dealer to let me try out a DSP-3200 it has the 12" driver and 100W(I think) more amp, but it is actually slightly more than the EP350, the DSP-3200 is $799. The Paradigm subs have an upper cut off at 150hz like the EP400.

I am leaning very much towards bringing in the big PB13-Ultra, mostly just to hear it, as all the reviews of it say it is one of the best out there. It would be over kill for my room but it would be the last sub I should need if I ever move into a larger house or make my room bigger. The FR is flatter than the PB12 - NSD so it would be interesting to see if it still has that thump to it.

Jason. I suspect you are right about the PB12 and I have been thinking about that Paradigm sub you mentioned.


Next thing you know, you're going to be posting 'wall of sub' pics like MikeC at audioholics.

I don't think so, I have the advantage of returning the subs I get, Mike would go broke paying for shipping both ways to the Phillipines.

Oh Jaaasooon....

Almost as good as a Fathom for 1/3 the price: must... not... cl... oh Darn!

Well, he is comparing it to the older fathom F112 and not the newer F113 which is much more highly regarded and which the PB13 Ultra is rated even more highly than for half the price of the F113. But none the less it does sound like a promising sub only problem would finding a dealer or shipping costs.

The sub I have been looking at lately is the MFW-15 over at av123, now that seems to be the best bang for the buck, still under $1000 delivered to my door but have to wait till July to see/hear one if I ordered now.

Hey, don't forget about the Emotiva DRS-1 system, due out pretty soon. Dual, sealed 12" subs, 600W amp, auto room correction, calibration mic, blue LED's.

Frankly, I don't know how some of these manufacturers can offer products like these for such low prices.

Once again the Emotiva sounds good, twin boxes with 12" drivers and with the external processor I should think it would be a breeze for set up. Time will tell if it is up to the rest of the $1000 group.

The PB13-Ultra is a fine subwoofer, SVS finally made a great sub with that design. The notorious mid-bass FR hump, found in most of their old products, was finally flattened which made it much more articulate than the low end thumpers in its line. (Extension in the SVS lineup usually came at the price of nonlinear FR).

Last year we compared the PB13 Ultra to a Paradigm Servo, Fathom JL113, Velodyne DD-18 and the EP600. The comments were mixed as to which one was the best sub, but everyone put the Servo in last place which tells you alot about the quality of the other subs.

Sealed and ported subs have different strengths. Ported subs will always deliver more output down low but at the cost of some port noise. Sealed sub will have less output but come across as "tighter", "faster" and more detailed. With these subs the line gets blurred but IMO its still safe to say that for strictly HT applications ported subs give you better performance because of the extra output down low while sealed subs are more "musical".

With regards to the Fl113 and PB13 Ultra, if HT was the main application I would lean toward the Ultra. But with music no contest in favour of the Fathom. That result was clear from our listening test. Lists that say otherwise are misleading and unscientific BS.

As for the EP600, it holds its own against all these subs even though its an older design now. Its great for HT and much more articulate than other ported designs. One of the guys in our shootout last year ranked it tops in the blind listening.

Thanks John, I have been meaning to ask you your thoughts on the PB13-Ultra. I remember you mentioning that it was their best product and after my experiences with the PB12-NSD. I know what you mean by the mid bass hump. It is definitely there, but does provide that slam so many people seem to like. I like it...for a while, but it does become annoying.

As I mentioned before, the thump was tremendous for movies...and for the first couple of minutes of music. After that, like Jason said, it became annoying.

I missed that that was an older fathom entirely.

That was in interesting set of posts. Given the various posts on subs over the last few weeks, It seems like the EP350 would also hold its own against more popular comparably priced subs.

I am also beginning to get a sense for how to judge comments about a sub based on how someone describes its 'musiclity'.

It is very hard to find a sub that hits hard for HT but will lay back a little for music and blend nicely like the Axiom subs do.

jakewash, what sub(s) do you own (that you actually use and not just experiment with!)?

There's a setting on the Axiom subs which boosts the mid-bass a bit IIRC. Maybe called "boost" or something like that ?

Could this be useful for getting extra mid-bass emphasis for movies while retaining flat response for music ? I kinda hope not, or everyone will be asking for the ability to flick it on and off by remote control

Hi John. Hope you are well. Its called "trim" in the EP subs and boosts amplitude above 33hz to accomodate room gain below that frequency.

what should the trim be set to in most cases? I have left mine at the same setting since I got the sub... I think at flat.

EDIT: found a description in the manual- it basically says to experiment with half or full in small to medium rooms but to leave it at flat for large rooms.... Maybe I will see if I notice a difference between the two. not sure exactly what is happening when I turn that switch though...

It is a shelf gain boost for frequencies above 33hz. No way of knowing whether it will be beneficial or not without trying it or measuring it. The idea is to flatten in room FR for listening areas with substantial room gain in the lowest octave. All subs should have this feature.

I have mine set to flat but then again I have 4,000+ cubic feet. When I set it to half or full, it's too over-powering.

I need to download some of those real traps test tones and get to work then!

Setting mine to Half on my EP500 was required to overcome my small square room with a middle seating position. Helped a very noticeable amount.

Yes they do become fatiguing after a while which isn't the case with the new Ultra 13 or the sealed SVS subs. When I first challenged the sound quality of the ported SVS subs compared to the EP subs it created alot of controversy at other sites. But enough time has gone by that most folks have taken a more mature attitude about it. This old FR graph in particular comparing the EP600 with the then top of the line SVS Ultra caused alot of anguish for that companys marketing machine. The mid bass hump is quite noticeable and its even more accentuated in many rooms. The extension was nice but not a good tradeoff to that awful FR.

Must...control...sub...upgrade...urges...

I have a SVS PB12-NSD and I am a big fan. However, on Dancing with the Stars the sub works overtime and becomes so overbearing that I have to turn it off in the setup. Dancing has a pretty bass heavy drum in the music even without the sub on my m60s, but maybe what I am hearing is actually the mid bass hump that you are talking about. Anyone else have troubles with that show? Is it my system or the content? I always just figured it was the content. But I do tend to run my sub 3db hot. It has never been a problem except on this show.

On a side note, the SVS hits so hard that often there are times when I don't really need it. My wife sometimes gets mad when I watch a movie late at night. Without the sub the m60s are able to hold their own for night watching, but it takes time to set up the crossovers in the Onkyo 875 receiver. Is there a way I can get a one button setup to turn off the sub and make my m60s full range?

Aha!

If one were to listen to, say, and EP400 with this feature off, and then on would that make a big difference in the 'punch' it had for music? In a 12x20x7 room which would be more likely to make your ears hurt on music?

I'd say half or full would make your ears hurt more. As for "punch" I don't know. Maybe jakeman does.

I'm wondering if that would account for the very different impression Jason and I had of the EP400.

When I auditioned, I never really paid attention to settings on the sub, I just listened to what Debbie presented me.

I don't know either Mojo...I like my punch with rum and slices of pineapple.

Fred, there is no hard or fast rule for setting trim. Too much depends on placement and unique room acoustics. Before using the trim control I would suggest leaving it flat and again tweaking placement. Generally speaking the closer to the corner in a small room the more trimming to half or full becomes viable. The concept being that the closer to the corner the more room gain will occur below 33hz. However depending on where you sit you could be situated in a peak or null so the only practical thing to do is try all the settings. Keep in mind that the trim that sounds good for HT may not work that well for music.

Thans John. I've really learned a lot from this post. Actually, you seem to have spent a lot of time to really figure this sub stuff out.

The reason for my Aha! and for posting the subsequent question is that Jason and I had very different impressions of the EP400. He felt it was smoother and less punchy/powerful than the 400. I gave up on it after listening to some music because it seemed too powerful. I could feel it pushing on my ears and interpreted this as pushing too much air or too much punch.

Nothing I had read about sealed vs ported subs or others impressions of the 350v3 vs 400 matched with what I felt.

The room I mentioned is Axiom's listening room. The HT is set up against one of the narrow end walls facing out at the longest dimension. The sus were placed up front, just off center (just inside the M60 and M80).

If I was listening to the 400 with the trim control on vs others listening with it set to off would explain my very different experience.

FWIW, my ears hurt with the 400 at its lowest volume setting, yet the 350v3 sounded just fine at about 1/2 volume.

Very interesting... (but not shtupit!)

I too felt that the 400 was smoother and less punchy/powerful than the 350v3 when auditioned in my 4,000 cubic foot+ space.

Where does one download such test tones?

The RealTraps website.

That would have been the difference. I have never played around with the trim, always left it set to flat.

Jason, definitely try the trim adjustments. This partially compensates for the room gain at very low frequencies that small rooms(contrary to popular belief)in particular add, and boosts the output above an arbitrary 33Hz to make the overall result less boomy. I was a bit surprised to see that the "Full" setting was overall the most desirable.

I will have to try it out. Just hard finding time to play with settings and still enjoy listening to the system and play with the kids and keep up with the Jones'...errrr, the housework, posting on here, etc.

I always thought if a sub sounded good flat then I could make those adjustments later to make it sound even better, knowing me I probably wouldn't have gotten around to changing the settings anyway. Maybe that's why I keep looking for the 'right sub' and I just might have had it here and never known, because I never tried to tweak any of them.

I guess that is next on the list.

Jason,

I think I have had my EP500 for over a year, and were looking at subs back then!! would you just pick a damn sub and be done with it?!?! You're missing out man! Just get a freakin EP500 and BLAM!

That's right--you tell him, Robb!

He's got the primo from SVS now that we're going to compare to the 600 and hopefully the 350. So Rob, I take it that you want to throw your 500 into the match?

OK, We want a truly spectacular sub woofer shootout!

You need to rig up a system where you put each one in a moving bus, with speakers calibrated to play a synchronized frequency sleep from 120 down to 15 Hz and whichever bus dips below 65db first, Blows up!!!!

With Keanu Reeves and Sandra Bullock in it .

Wouldn't that be nice?


Wh--AIEEEE!--I'M BURNING! WHOA! ARG! WHOA!

I actually like that movie. How sad. . .

Whoa.

I've never seen that one - missed it somehow and have never gone back to get it.

Warning, mild tangent ahead: I see the (W-something, sp?) brothers behind the Matrix movies are doing Speed Racer now. Wonder how that'll go over.

It was a good movie...no question. I just don't like Keanu and Sandra in general although they were good in that movie.

Spent the weekend watching the original Star Wars triliogy with my son and I never realized just how much LFE there actually is in those movies. All the ships have a great sound to them and the deathstar loading up and then the planet explosion was awesome. Amazing what a much better subwoofer can do for a movie I have seen many, many times. I have been missing out by not getting a good sub so much sooner.

Now I wonder when I will finally decide on one

The pod race in the Phantom Menace was one of the early subwoofer test sequences.

Happily, Phantom Menance is not in the original trilogy.

No, it was in the newer, better trilogy. Hey - is Jar Jar Binks going to get his own movie one of these days? I really miss seeing him. Such a fun, lovable character! I hope he can get his own spin off universe/trilogy. That'd be cool. He can go to that planet with the Ewoks and they could all be best friends who team up to fight crime and spread justice throughout the galaxy. They could have really big ships shaped like porpoises, and the shuttlepod could be in the porpoise's blow hole. The lasers could come out of the eyes, it'd be like, "Take that, sucker!" then BSSST and the eyes would get all green and charge up with energy and then shoot a merciless slaying beam to mow down anyone in their path. And they could have torpedoes shoot out of his mouth, PYEW PYEW PYEW. Then that fish face Ackbar could say, "It's a trap!" but it'd be too late, he'd be all blowed up and stuff. That'd be awesome.

I used it as a surround speaker demo mainly, as the pod sounds circle around the room very nicely. Now that I have a decent sub in the house it does have much more effect to it though.

I got gum on my seat. Gum!

That's the only thing I remember about the movie. I don't think I even watched it all.

Have you seen the preview and the helmets and outfits they wear in it??? I know where it comes from and I'm usually pretty open minded but from just looking at the costuming I decided I won't be watching that movie.

I think it should be renamed Tron II.

Great stuff medic8r! Made my morning!

Shipping update on the PB13-Ultra, it looks like it should be shipped out this coming week, the email said early in the week so I hope to have it Friday, the sad part is I will be heading out of town to my parents that weekend.

That's a terrific subwoofer Jakewash...SVS's best product to date. I'm sure you'll really enjoy it.

I hoe so. I know we are going to compare it to Mojo's EP600 and hopefully Framer's EP350 and the PB12-NSD. I just hope we can all get together before I have to send the PB12 back.

Count me in as extremely interested in the results. I'm tempted to order one now just to get my name on the waiting list while I try to figure out if the situation with my EP-600 can be salvaged.

Mojo, I hope it's punch knocks the wind out of you and depth rattles your innards.

The PB12-NSD can but it sacrifices smoothness to do it. It has a great punch to it but as we have pointed out it became annoying with music. If all you want is some slam and punch for HT, I could recommend this much cheaper SVS.

I agree with Jason on this wholeheartedly.

Myrison, I don't know if you read my post on a Trooper concert that I attended. I had never heard bass like that before. We had to leave a half hour into the show because I was getting heart arrhythmia. Everytime a bass string was plucked, I'd feel it first deep in my chest and then it rattled my junk down below. It was an incredible feeling but my body just couldn't take it for too long. The drum hits almost made me lose bladder control. Indeed, a few that had one too many beer succumbed to the bladder-squeezing pressure waves.

Now I am of course not looking for anything close to that degree of punch.

Thanks Mojo. Yes, that sounds like a bit much for what I have in mind. My "reference thump" actually comes from my car stereo, (Jeep Cherokee Infinity system with a small factory sub, guessing maybe an 8" woofer).

When I listen to the bass in the car the music just has a great lively punch to it that I've yet to be able to reproduce in my home theater room. Maybe it takes a smaller woofer size to generate the slamming mid-range bass?

As a side question, how do these SVS box subs compare to their cylindrical counterparts? Have you guys done any comparisons of those?

The frequencies your talking about are more likely above the subs range. There is a difference between bass and LFE.

I too have a thump in the Mazda from the integrated Bose speakers although it's not nearly as nice as the Sony's.

As I've said in another thread, my Sony has a 12" driver with a 150W amp and I get a nice "thump" out of it no matter where I place it. So driver size has nothing to do with it.

Myrison, do you have the 150Hz amp (ie. does the back of your amp say "by-pass" or "150Hz")?

Could it be, simply, that thump = bloated or otherwise "colored by the cabinet" bass?

Mojo, I've got the "bypass" version of the amp. What does that tell me?

pmbuko... not sure, I would actually define this thump as the opposite of bloated, i.e. it's a tight snappy bass that I'm missing, not the low rumbling tones.

It could be what Randy said that it's too high for the EP600... though from running the test tones and comparing to the bass I'm referencing, I think it's a 60hz sound or just above.

Can you narrow it down to some specific material? Like a track on a CD that many people might have?

Peter, what I'm hearing is not bloat. I absolutely detest bloat. It's a nice, tight thump.

Bypass simply means it has a steep cliff at 100Hz. The 150Hz amp (which others are reporting they're getting) has that steep cliff at 150Hz. And maybe that cliff isn't so steep if it's been designed the same as the EP400.

That's exactly the thump I'm talking about.. except it's well within any sub's range.

Spoiler, the PB12 has a great thump to it that I would say is in that 60hz range as I lose it if I drop the XO to 40hz.

I just received the email the PB13 is now on its way

Great news! I'm eager to hear your impressions as well as Mojo's if and when you get to compare it to his EP600.

I'm intrigued by the fact that it has a parametric EQ built into it so that one has more control to be able to tweak its sound to whatever is desired. Since good quality bass response seems to be a highly subjective area, this is good thing.

Although the SMS-1 has been a welcome addition in evening out bass response in general, additional tweaking on my part didn't quite achieve what I like to hear, even though it wasn't 'accurate' bass response. There is some relief to hear that there are at least 3 other frequent posters here that can simply drop a cheaper sub nearly anywhere in their room and get that 'thump' , 'slam' ,quickness etc. instantly, with no extra intervention at all. I'm glad to hear I'm not alone in that respect.

I'm open to the possibility that I've missed something in tweaking after over 2 years of ownership, since I really want an outstanding subwoofer like the EP500 to work for me fully. I love the extreme low end of the sub... no complaints at all.

I understand that enjoying more 'thump' means that I may be sacrificing accuracy in some audiophiles eyes, but achieving what I want to hear has been tough. I'd like to do it with more tweaking, but I must admit my options are open right now.

Well, I can give you a track, but whether most people have it is another question.

Artist: Buckcherry, Album: "15", track 2, "Next to You" The bass line kicks in at about 8 seconds and continues throughout. It's a fast moving rock song with the type of "slamming" bass that a few of us are desperately seeking. I have a version downloaded from iTunes and even compressed, the bass is exactly what I'm looking for (if I listen in my Jeep, that is) For just 99 cents, you too can enjoy it.

If you're going to buy it, get it from Amazon as it comes without DRM and is slightly less compressed compared to iTunes.

Jason

I just listened to the preview on iTunes and my little 6-inch Yamaha "sub" kicked it with gusto. I didn't like the tune enough to spend 99 cents on it and try it on my Axioms, though.

That's a great tune! I just played it on my audiobytes and Sony sub and it was just kickin'! Great thump! I've ordered the album so when I try it out on my main system with the 600 I'll let you know what it sounds like.

Any other choice music that you'd care to recommend?

Mojo have you tried the Gwen Stefani cd I left there with the Audiobytes/sub? It has some good bass to it. I know it really isn't your taste in music, nor mine for that matter.

Well the PB13 shipping info has been updated today and it looks like it won't be here till next week, the 29th.

Yep. I like Gwen...and her music . Just 'cause I'm approaching old fart territory doesn't mean that I don't like to jiggle my junk now and then .

So I should book Wednesday off then? When is your ED monster coming?

I thought you were going to get the big eD, although I am tempted to try their smaller ones, maybe the A5-700, but with fuel prices going way up, shipping things back is getting pricy even for me.

I may get the ED as we need an extra bed downstairs .

Now they are showing it is out for delivery, but also still showing est. delivery date as the 29th, now I wait and see which is right.

That whole album is very good IMHO, though it's definitely not for the faint of heart. Despite the vulgarity of some of the lyrics, the rhythm of some of the tunes is awesome. Track 7, "Crazy B*tch" is an absolutely fantastic tune for people who listen to music while exercising... great 'pump you up' tune.

Have you guys listened to the PC-Ultra cylindrical version of the PB-13 ultra? I do like the space saving profile of it better, but I'm curious if anyone has heard it and has opinions on its performance.

So here's the deal with Buckcherry's Next to You on my systems.

On my audiobytes and Sony sub through my laptop: definite, pleasing, unbloated thump right in the centre image with EQ off. I can essentially point ot the thump's image. I can accentuate this by bumping up my 31Hz or 62Hz setting in WMP (but not both concurrently because it sounds too bloated). It sounds great when I boost the 62Hz setting to max .

On my main system: no thump at all at my normal sub volume. When I increase the Denon's LFE volume, I hear the bass but it's at a lower frequency that through the above system. Rather than a thump at a precisely-located centre image, I get deep, transparent bass all around the room with a wide bass image up front. From my live listening experience, this is what the bass is supposed to sound like but again, this is not what I prefer.

Now if I turn the LFE up even further and set my Denon's cut-off to 40Hz (from the normal 60Hz), I hear a nicely defined thump at the centre image along with some of that other transparent bass that I talked about earlier. I prefer the 40Hz setting on this piece. I have my 600's cross-over set to 60Hz normally.

FYI, I have waffled between 40Hz and 60Hz cross-overs for music. I've stuck with 60Hz but sometimes (as in this case), 40Hz sounds better.

By the way, this whole album is highly compressed. Good tunes though .

One other idea... what if you hook the laptop to one of the Denon's inputs and change the EQ settings in WMP as well? Maybe that on top of the XO settings and LFE bump will get you even closer? Curiosity overwhelms me!

Ok, but not tonight .

I hooked up my Creative Zen (that's a cool little machine) to the Denon and bumped up the 80Hz setting but I didn't like it.

The PB13-Ultra has arrived now I just have to get the energy up to carry this thing downstairs or should I just load it up in the truck and head over to Mojo's this afternoon?

The slacker in me says minimize trips up and down.
The kid says play now! play now!
The guy in another province wanting the comparison says goto Mojo now!


...and lasso framer with the 350, too!

Go
To
Mojo's!!


Go
To
Mojo's!!



Which color/wood is it?

Just the basic black. I have no need to spend even more for a finish that wouldn't work with the rest of my decor according to my wife or my speakers, but from pics I have seen the Rosenut is awesome.

Sorry guys. I won't be able to do this comparison with the 600. I'm way too busy.

Ugh!

Ok then Mr. Jakewash, your first impressions?

Ok guys after a near hernia trying to move this big box downstairs, some first impressions.

It is definitly smoother than the PB12-NSD, yet still has that elusive punch the Axiom subs seem to lack, other than that I need more time and the direct comparison with the 600. The PB13 also has a magnetic grill so it has that cool factor to it.

I listened to The Eagles Farewell Tour DVD - Dirty Laundry. The bass was not over the top but still had a nice edge to it and the depth charge scene from U-571 had the pant legs moving and there was a definite visceral punch on some of the explosions.

This sub has lots of adjustable settings which is why I need more time, lots more time as the schedule is getting filled with outdoor activities. I will guess that with the onboard EQ settings just about anyone can get this sub to sound good in any room.

Thx, Jakewash. I suppose you won't have access to a EP350 as well when you and Mojo do your comparison?

I am planning on leaving the PB13 at Mojo's until we all get together or at least until/if Framer leaves his EP350 for a comparison.

You can borrow one of mine, of course you would have to drive down to the states to get it.

Mojo, I know you're busy, but I can't wait to hear your opinion of the SVS since you and I seem to be on the same wavelength regarding what we'd like in the perfect sub.

Jakewash, when are you dropping it off at Mojo's so we can start harassing him for his opinions?

I've already started bugging him over on the Texas Epicenter thread...

While everyone is waiting for Mojo's review I thought I would post my thoughts now and see how my initial thoughts stack up against his.This was after only about 45 minutes of listening, so take it with a grain of salt.

The SVS PB13-Ultra has a linear response inspite of not being a digital amp and still retains that initial rush giving it that sought after impact for movies. The PB13-U has a smoother sound than the punchy PB12-NSD that I have and feels like it goes much deeper than the little PB12-NSD as the couch was really moving, even pantlegs were moving from the sound waves in mojo's 4000cf room during the depth charge scene in U-571. While watching the Eagles Farewell Tour DVD - Dirty Laundry, the thump the little PB12 had which became annoying, just wasn't annoying with the PB13. The thump was smoother and sounded lower, it was nice. We also listened to some Eric Clapton and the PB13 was there in the background as it should be.

The EP600 has such a nice textured sound that it allows this sub to achieve that transparency that some of us are looking for in a sub for music. The EP600 easily fills up a room with LFE and still rocks the house. Even though it lacks the initial punch of the analog amped subs, even the EP350 has more attack (IMO), the analog subs appear to lack the presence of the EP600. The entire room seems to become part of the experience. The EP600 has something in its tone that is warm and inviting, very pleasing for music. For movies this quality allows for a longer, lower decay of the sound and the sounds are more expansive, it invites you into the movie, as in the aforementioned Depth charge scene, the rumblings seem to go on longer and you feel them all around you with the EP600, something the SVS didn't do for me. During the Eagles DVD, the 600 had a very pleasing all around you effect as well that is hard to describe.

Does that make the wait easier or harder?

I can't decide...

Larger.

Have you guys tested the EP500 to the Ultra 13?

Is it possible for you and the 500 to step out of your world and into ours for comparisons? I still don't believe that you are flesh and blood .

I'll be doing just that, hopefully within the next two weeks.

I am but a figment of your imagination...

I know you've been busy.