Considering that many people have budget constraints, they often cannot buy 'hifi' speakers.
However, some people who can afford such high priced items will even limit themselves to a budget value knowing there is a point of absurdity (the point of dimished return where the price does not equal the sound 'improvement' of the equipment).

So assuming you had the cash, what maximum price would you honestly pay for a set of main speakers before you feel that there is a diminishing return on the quality of sound to price paid?
(I'm also curious to see how much people would pay for entire systems, surround and components but that would throw too many variables into an easy poll.)

Chess

this is perhaps the most interesting post I have seen on this message board in several months.

Thank you

You mean you didn't like the crazy off-branch into philosophers in this morning's rantings?
Geez Ravi, there are only so many good ideas out there.

Well here's the small history behind the poll.
My curiousity has peaked over these Tannoy speakers, the bookshelves i bought recently. My wife so likes their sound that i was perusing the Tannoy website for their other models. I'm not a fan of their newer designs but the older stylings and specs could be what i'm looking for in a second system in the future. Specifically the Definition D700s.
However, a pair of these goes for about $6k to 8k Cdn. I just asked myself the question, would i ever really pay that much cash for just one (two) item for a system?
Possibly... if i do not go with any surround speakers and use it only as a stereo setup, but what is my limit then?
Would i look for a used pair perhaps for 6k or try to get new for 8k?
Where was my honest limit?

So i was just curious to see what other people, when money is not limiting, would honestly choose as a max budget in this regard.
I have to keep in mind the lost variables unaccounted for in this less than scientific poll.
Most importantly, it is being posted at a forum for a company speaker renowned for its low price, great performance speakers.
I am expecting the curve to be closer to the lower end.
My guess is that if i had posted this poll at some other snootier forums that the curve would be on the higher end, but again, i'm looking for an honest opinion and knowing that this forum over many promotes fact over myth, my confidence is high that the results will be more reasonable and realistic.

I can't think of any better way to complement all the Axiom forum posters.

So Chess were you willing to think to spend $6K+ or really would spend $6K+ on any two from mains?
Money not limiting I would only go up to $3.5k.
Maybe get the Proac or Dynaudio.models I wanted
But I wouln'd balk much spending $5k for a mtn bike
or $3k for a full snowboard gear setup
Some people would not balk on a $6k Hawaii trip but would give concerns if they spent $1.5k on speakers

Very interesting to know that even many serious enthusiasts out there would not even go over $1.5k on speakers.

Then i guess you see my point quite clearly Saturn.
People on these forums come from all walks of life, from students to professors, engineers, artists...
Everyone has a passion which may drive them to spend more on any one thing over another, but one thing about posters on the Axiom forums, they are all mostly looking for the best price for performance that they can find in audio. This is something Axiom is renowned for, great price for the quality.
Hence, from these same people, many of which have the cash to buy way more expensive stuff or from the dreamers who wish they will some day have the cash, i just had to know if there was still a personal limit to speaker spending even when money is not limiting.

As for me, well, i'm sure i could find some other speakers in a lesser price range that will suit the bill, BUT, if i cannot, then yes, i would consider paying up to 6k for those Tannoys. Hence my relative limit, no more than $6000-6500 or so for a pair of mains.
I would expect that these main speakers would not be a standard size and fare though. I'm thinking well over the 100lb weight category, wide frequency range, VERY well controlled and superbly smooth delivery, quality materials and with a cabinet finish that is nothing short of solid wood set to style any room for years to come (nothing too modern or too old, but classical in look).

As for components, i would limit myself to the 4k or less (Cdn) range for powering only 2 speakers which would include amp, preamp pro, CD.
Speaker wire, fifty bucks.

I suppose that depends on my financial state. Currently, I'd fall in the 1-2k range myself. However, as my finances improve that will undoubtedly change. Had I unlimitted funds, you better believe I'd be that crack pot with the quarter mill theater in his house.

I don't think I understand the poll. If money is not the limiting factor, then what is? Space? Aesthetics? If I had unlimited wealth I'd buy the best-sounding best-looking speakers that fit in my mansion, which I would imagine would put me in the $50K and up range.

Jason,

If you were a rich person, would you still honestly go and buy $50,000 speakers just because you could? Or would you honestly say to yourself, $10,000 speakers will be just as good as those $50,000 and hence why spend the extra $40,000?

You have to have a sense of humility to answer the poll honestly.
Just because you are rich does not equate to spending money in ridiculous ways. Even rich people watch what they spend their money on otherwise they would never be rich and the rest of the world's people would be receiving money like crazy.

So what i want to know is if money was not really an issue (lets say you had a $300,000 budget for a stereo), would you HONESTLY buy really expensive speakers or is there a value range in which you believe the more expensive and supposedly "better' sound is not worth the money paid?

For example, if you sat down today and listened to 20k and 10k speakers and could not hear a difference, then (even if you were rich) would you still bother buying the 20k speaker?
I'm not looking for people saying "yes, i would" just because you could, hence my continuing use of the word 'honestly'. I want to get an idea of what people think is really the maximum level at which there is no advantangeous return on the sound quality dollar for dollar.

As you say, you would "buy the best-sounding best-looking speakers that fit in my mansion, which I would imagine would put me in the $50K and up range."
Do you really think that the best sound and best looking automatically fall above 50k?
Or do you possibly believe that anything after the 5k mark is all sound about the same and have equally good finishes? or perhaps anything after the 10k mark? or maybe even just the $1000 level.
To bring it to an extreme, would a $50 million dollar speaker sound better than a $10 million dollar speaker or a $100,000 speaker?
So even if you were rich, is that $50 million speaker really worth its price or would even a rich person say, screw that, the $15,000 speaker is excellent for my tastes?
What is the maximum price point that you would pay....

THAT is what the poll is getting at.

For me, my limit would be between 6k and 8k or so. Beyond that and i think its wasted money (too much of a diminishing return for the price paid).

Exactly chess; I suppose that I could have spent 100 times as much as I did on my M22s if I wanted to, but I said screw it, these aren't just great speakers for the money, they're great speakers, period. I punched $1-$2K. In audio the correlation between cost and sound quality is quite low and beyond that, for speakers, I'd say it approaches zero.

If I had unlimited money, I honestly think I would spend it like a lab monkey pushing the button for another hit of cocaine.

How much could I realistically ever see myself spending, taking my income into account? Certainly no more than $3000 US, and probably a whole lot less than that. My FO M60s still make me giggle like a little girl.

I think this is one very relevant post that I could relate to very well. If you guys have some time, read this post of mine. Some might find it interesting, others, boring.

It took me 6 months of saving up and plenty of superb customer service from Axiom (particulary Amie) to get my M3s to my place in India. A friend bought it in the US and sneaked it in his suitcase into the country. I was naturally amazed at the sound of the M3s as it was way beyond anything I'd ever heard (Sony, Panasonic, Jamo, Klipsch, Bose). I did find the Quads pretty good, though.

The point I'm arriving at here is that inspite of having the M3s in a country where Sony and Panasonic are considered the best (Bose :-( being the dream; I know...), people still think I'm absolutely nuts to have bought "just a pair of mains" for $220 (FO). They think I've wasted so much money on mere speakers. But after this, people have been asking me to give them guidance on a home theatre setup and they want it all to some under $600. You got it. Mains, Rears, Sub, HT amp, DVD player to come under $600. I've been crying hoarse about the absurd limit but then, you do have Chinese HT systems that sell for as less as $250 and I get flak for not suggesting something like this. So what do you do?

I guess its the culture, the passion, the need that drives such things. But personally, I find it hard to believe that a pair of mains priced at US$20,000 and above are also selling well. I suppose people do have a lot of money out there and passions run strong for the so many different types.

Just my 2 cents.

Yes, Vid, it was interesting to read of the audio situation in India and of the unique delivery system you adopted for your speakers. Glad that you're enjoying your M3s.

Exactly.

The other thing to consider is that if you had a mansion (say 20+ rooms), you'd need more than a single set of mains if you were an enthusiast. What would be the point of having a mansion if you spent all of your time in one room? You'd need sets in the rec room(s), kitchen(s), bedroom(s), etc. I don't have anything near a mansion, but I do have 3 full HT systems (family room, master bedroom, guest bedroom) and 3 stereo systems (my home office, my wife's home office, basement studio) and will probably wind up with one more stereo system at some point (rec. room in basement) so the studio system can stop doing double-duty. My car also has a nice aftermarket system.

The hours I spend listening in my office are greater in number than all the others combined (since I listen while I work), and the car is probably tied with the family room, at least during the warm months (it's a ragtop). I could spend thousands in each room, but it just doesn't make financial sense. There's a lot more money in the system in my car than in the guest bedroom, for example. In fact, my car system is probably a good run for 2nd place with the master bedroom in terms of gear cost, not counting labor. At first glance this might seem odd, but it's all in priorities. There's little that makes me happier than driving 2-lane roads through the countryside on a sunny day with the top down and some great music playing. I could have spent less on the car system, but some of the constraints would have made me unhappy if I had... I need lots of power to overcome road noise when the top is down, it's a 2-seater roadster so the subwoofer was expensive due to space constraints (a Sunfire made specifically for htis car), you pay for theft-deterrent niceties and compact size, etc.

Of course, there are those (fools) that part with their money easily and are buying for bragging rights, but the fact is that there are few people that are impressed by $100,000 speakers versus a Bentley in the garage or just a very large empty garage. :-) I could spend a lot more money on HT gear, but I don't spend every waking moment watching movies and listening to music so it just wouldn't be logical (and most gear isn't a good financial investment, since most of it loses a lot of value as soon as it leaves the store and depreciates fairly quickly). I'd rather spend $100,000 on a classic automobile, home improvement, etc. Even those who have money to burn usually don't burn it or throw value out the window, and value is very personal (hence the poll, right?).

dwm,
Perhaps you should post some pics of all these systems.
I don't think i've met anyone yet that has so many.

Personally, we have 4 systems in our house but only 2 are really considered 'systems' of worth per se.
The one in the basement (Axiom setup, Onkyo receiver, etc.) and the one in my office H/K receiver and Tannoy bookshelves.

The other two rooms are the kitchen and my wife's office but she runs some Altec Lansing 4.1 speakers off a Hercules Game Theatre XP sound card and the kitchen has an all in one Denon receiver, cd, amp, tuner module with two Denon (no name brand really) bookshelf speakers.
Those setups work fine for a small kitchen, office or a garage but at some point, if i were to put together a stereo system for the upstairs living room next to the kitchen, you would find that little Denon all in one on eBay pretty fast.
My old Technics bookshelf system will be put up on eBay quite soon in fact.
My wife just doesn't need anything else for her office but uses the sound card technology for surround gaming so that will probably stay the way it is for quite some time.
Since i do not play the same game types as my wife, i didn't need a surround system for my office and hence went out searching for a decent receiver and speaker set, more for tv, dvd and music and the combination has so far been absolutely superb.

Without a doubt, the quality of the 4 systems goes in order of Axiom/Onkyo, Tannoy/HK (close call b/w these two), Denon kitchen, and last, the Altec Lansing/Hercules.

What you ask? someone put 50k or above?! Yes that is I. This is assuming i had the money, i would probbly buy the B&W Nautlis flagship. Sure theyre a fortune. but hey!, If i had the money i wouldnt have a problem spending it. rather put in into something i would enjoy for years than give it to charities or starving kids. selfish? sure. i guess you could say that. but we are only here for a short time and i dont owe the world anything lol. i will probbly read this when im in a different mood and think omg why would i say that! but what can i say. "I cannot explain, you would not understand, this is not how i am" -roger waters

Old polls are still fun.
I voted again.

>>The other thing to consider is that if you had a mansion (say 20+ rooms), you'd need more than a single set of mains if you were an enthusiast.

Nah... 5 M80s, 2 QS8s and a big stack of Halos

"Old polls are still fun."

Right!
This was a fun Poll.
Although I didn't vote because there wasn't a spot for voting with the Lab Monkeys!
And because I have always been afraid to listen to something that I could never, ever, in my wildest dreams afford.
So I really have no idea what $10 or $20 or $30 thousand dollar speakers sound like!
(but they shurrre do luk purty!)

I'm surprised the numbers weren't higher. I'm not sure that everyone understood the terms of "if you had the cash".

Certainly, not everyone would spend $50K even if they DID have the money, but I'm surprised so many people were as low as they were.

Me? If I had millions (and was comfortable that things would stay that way!) I would spend $5k to $10K on main speakers and maybe $50K on the whole system. Twenty for a projector and screen, twenty for speakers and the rest for electronics... assuming the speakers could be driven by electronics in that price range. Otherwise, some adjustments would have to be made for the projector and speaker budgets.

I'm not surprised the numbers were not higher considering the forum in which the poll was posted. I imagine the numbers would be shifted alot more had the question been asked on say AVS forums.
Still, i thought some of the ideas were interesting. It would be so tempting to buy a whole ton of expensive electronics, but other than bragging rights, i'm not sure as an individual i would be that happy in having paid hundreds of thousands. I think personally i would still be searching for the perfect sound for my preferences regardless of price, but it would be nice at least to have the freedom of readily purchasing w/o concern for financial welfare.

Looking back at my post...I think I went loonies since then...you think?

Yeah, I'm apparently willing to spend a lot more than most people, had I the cash... I put myself in the $11K+ bracket. I could see spending $15K. Well, not at the moment, but...

Saturn, you did indeed get out of control, but i'm sure its been a fun ride.
It hasn't ended yet has it....?

I would go as high as whatever a set of Monitor Audio GR60's are worth without hesitation!.....Yes they are that good!

If I could swing it, I would have bought them already even if they are $4000.00 or $5000.00! Somewhat scary as I don't have that much invested in my current 7.1 Monitor Audio setup!

I just love the obvious distribution of the data. No kurtosis test required here.
So smooth, so left skewed.

Thread revival of the week award to Chess.

But it's Monday!

...he writes posting on a Tuesday.

If money were no obstacle, I would buy the speakers that sounded the best to me.

It was still Monday here when I posted.

I wish money would stop being an obstacle for me. I'd own you all, if only.

The schedule for Thread Revival of the Week (TROW) eligibility runs from Tuesday through Monday. Geez, try to keep up, will ya?

Tom's house, Tom's rules!

waitaminnit ...

For me, I have actually been pricing out an all rosewood 5.1 system from Axiom, and the premium on the M80s alone, is $650 more than just getting a standard veneer upgrade in the custom shop. To me that $650 is just not worth it for me at this point in my life. I would love to get rosewood, for a $800 premium over the regular price, I am starting to ask myself if that is really worth it?

Im surprised to see that nearly all the votes are limited to 2000 dollars. Assuming you have the cash assumes you have the cash to burn. So assuming I had the cash to burn I would spend up to about 20 grand for a pair. There are tons of great speakers beyond the 2k price point that I think you would be serisouly limiting yourself there.

EDIT. Wow this is an old thread. Guess I already voted once. I still do drool over those B&W's though Really hit the nail on the head in the last part of my old post too. What the hell was i thinking anyway.

I think I must have been insane. $11K?!

Actually it is quite understandable considering the forum in which it was posted.
If this poll were posted on the Wilson Audio forum, i think you would see a very different curve.


Yes i know, old thread nostalgia week.
I may even go back and see what the very first post was that Peter put up, over nine thousand and change ago.

I'm a college student...if I vote, does that throw off the entire scale?

But the Question as asked ".....before you feel that there is a diminishing return on the quality of sound to price paid?"
Do you honestly believe spending $20,000 gets you 10X better SQ than $2000 mains?
I have heard $15000 Sonus Fabers(in a showroom, no A/B comparison) and I couldn't hear that much difference from my M80s.