Hi,

I love my M22's but I would love to hear the notes below 60hz.

My mean interests are classical and jazz. I am fond of one bassist, Alain Caron, who plays with amazing velocity. The M22's provide tight bass but I just know some of the notes seem to be fade in the lower register.

After spending an hour at the local Future Shop, I purchased a discounted Energy ESW-C10 sub for 249$, which sounded clean, tight and punchy at the time, compared to the other subs on display (Polk, Velodyne and Klipsch).

Once home, the sub sounded like the sub in my neighbour's Honda Civic - booming, muddy and overpowering except at the very lowest volume setting. It was ruining the M22 tight response and it will go back to FS tomorrow.

Any suggestions ? The EP-175 is at the absolute budget limit.

Thanks in advance for your inputs.

Hello FBR! Welcome to the forum! I am not an expert on audio matters and I just bought my Axiom speakers which I still didn't receive. I will give you an advice that was given to me from other helpful FRIENDS over here while I was getting people's help to build up my system. I was gonna get me a EP125 but since it is not very powerful the EP175 came up. I don't know the exact cost in US here in Japan it was something around $550, so the option that has been give to me was SVS PB10 or EP175. If I am not mistaken the SVS is a very good sub for a more modest price.

FBR, Welcome to the Forum. I see you have been enlightened to the world of low cost retail subs.

If the cost of the EP175 is the top limit not a bad sub but a bit weak by some accounts. I would suggest also looking at the SVS PB10-nsd as Ichigo mentioned, I have heard the PB12 and it is a very good sub, I would expect the 10 to be as clean just not as powerful. I will also mention looking to Elemental designs, Hsu, Outlaw Audio, or BIC America all have some very good subs.

I'd be looking at a Hsu STF-2, myself, or possibly a used or factory outlet EP350.

Um.

That's actually exactly what I was looking at when I was replacing my old sub a few years ago.

I'm exchanging an EP175 for an EP350. It should arrive at where I work tomorrow. The EP175 is a good subwoofer if you don't play music at really loud volume. That's why I'm spending the extra $200 for the EP350.

(sorry Axiom)

http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/pb10nsd-powered-box-subwoofer-10-nsd-series-woofer-black-p-5.html

^ Buy that . EP175 would be my third or fourth choice overall, but probably second choice really because it's just easier to get in Canada than HSU or the other brands.

Potatohead. Depends where you live and what the shipping costs are. If the PB10 were within $50 of the EP350 I would definately go with the EP350.

The PB 10 is much better than the EP175 or anything you would find in Best Buy. With a 12" driver I think that the EP350 is going to have more headroom in the upper bass than the PB10.

The only criticizm I have read of the PB10 is that it is not as 'musical' as some of the better subs. I think its because they push the 10" driver to the limit to get output down to 20Hz.

While checking the EP350 with an SPL meter tonight, it went from 20hz, or near 20hz, up to 300hz with no problem.

Its not so much how high the sub will play as it is at what volume. I have modeled several 10" drivers where extending the tuning of the box down to 20Hz reduced the output higher up. In two cases the driver started to see reduced spl starting at 80Hz.

Taking a capable 18" driver with a lower tuning, it showed no roll off until almost 1000 Hz. There is no replacement for displacement.

Even with an 80 Hz crossover, your sub still needs good output beyond that to blend well with the mains and keep up without distorting.

The PB10 is $580 plus shipping, I live in Vancouver which is about as far as possible from them within the country and my PB12 was $80 to ship I think, the PB10 would be less. The EP350 is $758, although I guess you could go to the outlet for one. If you're going to spend that much you may as well buy the PB12.

I own a EP350. Got a lot of power but i do not found it musical at all. Actually my front are the M3 and i play all my music without my sub. It is tune for movies only who's btw a great sub !! But not for music.

That's the first time I've heard anyone say the 350 wasn't a good sub for music.

Have you tried different sub positioning?

I'm thinking that perhaps he's expecting a sub that would play loudly in the mid to upper bass ranges. I'm experiencing what appears to be a drop in this range with both the EP175 and the EP350. I don't think it's the sub's fault and haven't found the right answer yet. Probably placement or room treatment.

I'm also thinking that the cheaper subs (but not too cheap) probably excel in the mid to upper bass region while lacking in the lower regions. So when you turn one of them up a bit, you get the music quality of bass that you would expect.

Yeah, most cheaper subs that can't go "low" just emphasize that 60Hz area that they CAN reach....

Not long ago (St. Patrick's day sale) I got in Outlaw Audio's LFM1 plus. I've also heard Aperion's Bravus 8D. Both are close to your budget and both are superb.

So, $100 difference between the PB10 and the EP350. only $25 if you go Factory outlet.

For what its worth, I was only able to find a blemish on one of the FO speakers and even then, you really have to look for it.

I found in the EP350 to be too boomy in lower bass. Lost in the mids and completely absent in the upper. Like i said it is well built for movies who require only lower bass generaly. I have try many setting and many position and i haven't found yet the best result for my music.
Maybe i did something wrong... ?

Hm. Not my experience at all, but ears and rooms are all different... What are you crossing it at? And have you calibrated it with a sound meter?

I'm also finding it a little boomy in the lower bass. Although, after moving it around, I found a spot where it sounds the best overall with increased accent in the mid to upper bass. So, I'm thinking that sub positioning is everything when it comes to bass. I don't have a lot on the walls, either, although one wall is mostly curtains. Some room treatments for bass traps for me would probably help. But I'm waiting until after I redo the floors, which will probably change everything. Going from carpeting to hardwood with an area rug in the center.

When I wrote the above ^^ about the boominess of EP350, I happened to be listening to the DVD "Final Fantasy, the Spirits Within" at the time. I noticed that this particular movie was boomy in the lower frequencies thoughout, which I now think was just a part of the soundtrack and not a fault of the subwoofer. Other movies, music are not boomy at all, even though they contain a lot of bass.

How does it go... content is king.