Alright, I am in the beginning stages of setting up a single zone, 8 speaker, in house audio project for my wife's parents.
The plan is to have 2 or 4 outdoor speakers and 4 indoor speakers (total 6 or 8 speakers). They will all be running off the same source from a receiver of some sort. Neither volume nor fidelity are of paramount importance. My wife's parents just want sound to fill the space.
Also, I don't really care about different zones. If the outside and the inside both have to play the same source, that is fine. Bonus points for dual zone, but PRICE is of highest concern here.
My question:
How do I run 3 (or 4) sets of stereo speakers without running into a 1 ohm load per speaker (in parallel) or a 64 ohm load and (in series) (and no volume)?
I am looking into 8 channel amps, but they get expensive quite fast, and all appear to be audiophile material.
Any ideas how to achieve this? Any moderately priced amplifier units out there that will fit the bill?
Thanks.
I guess ATI's 12-channel (6 stereo pair) distribution amp is more than you want/need?
http://www.ati-amp.com/at6012.html (It sells for about $1650.)
You might be able to get away with a simple 2-channel amp by using
impedance-matching volume controls and a little
Speaker distribution panel from Parts Express.
I'm using a similar setup with one pair of speakers in the kitchen and one pair on the patio (both with volume knobs) running from a very modest Adcom amp fed the Zone2 signal from my main system. It works great. I'm GLAD I ran all that copper.
Adrien, if you want three sets of stereo speakers in three different locations playing the same material, the simplest and least expensive option probably is to just get one of the 508 Onkyo refurbs from Accessories4less for about $180. Select the all-channel stereo mode, connect the two inside sets to main and side surround terminals and the outside set to the back surround terminals.
Sometimes dyslexia can be interesting like when I first read the title of this thread I swore it said “Whole Body Audio.”
Neon - thanks. Too expensivo.
Tom - I'll need some help figuring out how to wire your solution. Can I run install two speaker distribution panels (running 2 lead wires off of each amp channel) or what that create huge impedence problems. I was already planning on installing 3 impedence volume knobs (1 kitchen, 1 living, 1 outdoor).
John - I had thought about that solution. It certainly is the easiest wiring job. My only concern is that some dope mucks around with the "All Stereo" setting (like activating PLII or something), resulting in some weird sounds coming from various parts of the house. Inevitably, I will be getting calls wondering why the outdoor speakers are only playing echoey sounding background vocals... But it's a viable solution on a budget, for sure. I wonder if I could get a receiver that could I could lock into All stereo mode, or get a receiver with a default mode that always switches to all stereo when the device is turned on.
Hmm
You could probably program that with a harmony remote.
Adrien, for the PE solution, you just run the right/left speaker wires from "the amp" to the distribution panel. Then, you run R/L from the distribution panel to each volume control. I used 16/4 wire even though it's a fairly long run and it worked just fine. Then you run the right and left from the volume knob to each speaker.
It's designed for stereo pairs; I don't think it would work to have two pairs on one volume knob.
The panel I linked to is good for four pairs. I think there might be panels that accommodate more, though.
Right - four pairs, duh. I was thinking I needed 8 pairs.
Then, if I have 4 pairs of 8 ohm speakers, how would i set the volume controls (assuming I had 3 controls --- 1 running 2 speakers in kitchen, 1 running 2 speakers in living room, and 1 running 4 speakers outisde)?
Also, I found this snazzy little number that might fit the bill:
http://www.sherwoodusa.com/prod_rx5502.html. It's a 2 zone, 8 channel amp from Sherwood. Tom, your solution would be cheaper, though.
I'll put out another solution. This requires that you have powered speakers, like AudioBytes or Audio Engines. If you have those at different locations, you can use Apple's Airport Express and send music wireless using Airtunes. Play your iTunes around the house and control it w/ a PC, Mac, iPad, iPhone or iPod Touch. You can even control volume. If you pair that w/ Airfoil, then you can add stuff like Pandora. This is a poor man's Sonos solution.
OR, you could use a wireless speaker that they have at Brookstone. It's mono and 900 MHz, IIRC, but it's portable and sounds surprisingly good.
Yeah, but ANY solution (except Cesar's) is going to be a gigantic pain-in-the-tuckus because you're running copper all over hell.
I don't know about four speakers on one knob. Maybe there is technical documentation at PE that speaks to this.
We are doing demo and rebuild from scratch. Running copper will be done by the pros, after framing, before drywall. No sweat.
It's all about simplicity of design/functionality/ease using a moderate budget (undoubtedly, this project is nowhere near my mother-in-law's top priority and most of the AV budget will be spent on a 65" TV for the upstairs theater).
I should also note that I also 'attempted' to help the inlaws w/ a whole house audio setup that was 'inexpensive'. Ran wires to patio, kitchen ceiling, and a few other rooms. The goal was the same as yours. We even installed Aperion in walls in the ceiling of the kitchen. The intent was to use an older AVR paired w/ a Niles-type speaker selector to drive multiple speakers. The contractor installed all the wires in the ceiling, as well as the appropriate CAT5 into wall plates for future in-room control via wall mounted controllers or IR back to the wiring closet.
Suffice to say, it got a little complicated. W/o using a real whole house audio system, the question was, how do they control everything, including source selection and volume? This was in 2006 so iPhones weren't as prevalent. As late as 9 mos ago, I tried to complete the project. I used an Airport Express as source for the music, since we could use their iPhones and Macs for control. The problem was how to shut off the dang AVR. I didn't want to have to install and explain how to use X10 power modules. The music sounds great, but power control is too big of an issue because the closet gets too hot. Right now, those speakers in the ceiling just keep those round holes plugged...
Wouldn't this make it seemed that you lived in an elevator?
Naw, Adrien; certainly no disaster if a mode other than all-channel stereo was set temporarily. Of course all channels don't have to be played simultaneously; selecting "none" for back surrounds and the outside speakers don't play, likewise the second inside set if side surrounds are set none.
The 508 also has a powered "Zone 2" option which would allow one of the other speaker sets to play different material with different volume settings, if wanted.
There are quite a few more or less complex and/or expensive solutions, but this simply uses the versatility built in to modern HT receivers.
Let's hope I don't run into a problem like you've encountered, OldSkool.
The plan is to have the components in a mechanical closet, accessible on the first floor, in between the living room and kitchen (accessible, really, from both). Ipod and CD sources will be connected. I am figuring we will operate without remotes - volume changes will be made at the head unit, with tweaking done at the wall volume controls. As far as changing sources, I guess we'll have to do it the old fashioned way, of getting up and going over to the system.
I think I am going to pick up the Sherwood 8 Amp, 2 zone, stereo amp/receiver. It seems perfect for my needs.
Let's hope I don't run into a problem like you've encountered, OldSkool.
The plan is to have the components in a mechanical closet, accessible on the first floor, in between the living room and kitchen (accessible, really, from both). Ipod and CD sources will be connected. I am figuring we will operate without remotes - volume changes will be made at the head unit, with tweaking done at the wall volume controls. As far as changing sources, I guess we'll have to do it the old fashioned way, of getting up and going over to the system.
I think I am going to pick up the Sherwood 8 Amp, 2 zone, stereo amp/receiver. It seems perfect for my needs.
Another sugestion. I've got a Sherwood 4 zone stereo amp ($150) Logitech Squeezebox Duet controller ($150/$199), zone volume control inwall and use my Android phone app (squeezecontrller)for a squeezebox whole house wifi controller. (Volume, Program, Cover Art,song, FF/RW, etc.)(Does your owned music, Rhapsody, itunes, Pandora, Satellite, internet radio, everythingOr duet controller $150(Does your owned music, Rhapsody, itunes, Pandora, Satellite, internet radio, everything(Volume, Program, Cover Art,song, FF/RW, etc.) 1 source or add duets for additional source per zone (or use tuner 4 second source)
Just another thought
That sounds awesome. No Android phone, though.
Remember, my 60 year old mother in law has to be able to use this thing. Once it is set up, I am sure it is the essence of simplicity. But I have a hard time getting her to even use the Harmony universal remote (which requires you use it to power up/down the system so it knows which components are on/off). She just likes the feel of her Fios remote and refuses to use it. She then can't get the receiver to work right, so she watches tv (usually low def because she doesn't care/notice) through the tv speakers, nevermind the surround system I had installed.
Many control options, but yes the user does have to interface in some manner
All controllers have a "Favorites" option for radio/Sat/Playlists/Etc. 1 learning curve
That sounds awesome. No Android phone, though.
Remember, my 60 year old mother in law has to be able to use this thing. Once it is set up, I am sure it is the essence of simplicity. But I have a hard time getting her to even use the Harmony universal remote (which requires you use it to power up/down the system so it knows which components are on/off). She just likes the feel of her Fios remote and refuses to use it. She then can't get the receiver to work right, so she watches tv (usually low def because she doesn't care/notice) through the tv speakers, nevermind the surround system I had installed.
In the case of simplicity, I would even suggest just using something like Chumby One for $99. It's not stellar audio quality but allows you to have Pandora in different rooms. My parents have that too and they don't have to really learn anything.
You can do all that work but if they find it too complex, it'll be a lot of doorstops.
I understand different thoughts, complexity, what works for who.
And not trying to push my solution.
But I will tell you, almost all electronic purchases, for me, there is some disappointment in what it does, doesn;t do, how much time I have to put into setting it up (example: my 5 Harmony remotes), but with the Logitech Duet (with controller, $300), I was 110% happy out of the box.
That's happened maybe 2 times in my electronic life (and I could be driving a couple of porsche's instead of my electronic purchases).
Just my take
Jeff