I currently own the M60Ti and was wondering if anyone upgraded to the V3? Can someone do a direct comparison? I'm getting that itch of getting new speakers. The other thing that worries me about the new M60V3 is that it has only two binding post and not 4 like before? Is this correct? This would be a deal breaker for me. I currently run my Turntable/Tube Phono preamp/Denon poa 1500/M60ti and than My Home theatre thru a Denon 3910 / Denon 3805/ M60ti/vp150/qs8/ SVS Sub.
I used to have M60ti's and now have M80V2's, which I've notied some improvement overall in sound. Axiom, through constant research and development, makes changes (some major, some minor) to the crossovers, drivers, etc. I would say from ti's to V3's they have made a lot of changes, and I would suspect in a blind A/B test the listener should be able to tell in a positive way. All the drivers and crossover are different from the TI series. But, unless you did a blind test, I'm sure the TI's still sound great.
Can't help you on the binding post issue.
Binding post issue, sounds like the bi-amping capability to me. You can do 1 of 2 things here, I believe. If your not going to bi-amp you can buy banana plugs that allows you to plug one plug into the top of another. I know those that Axiom sells that are 2 plugs in one piece allows you to do that. Another thing you can do is special order them from Axiom and have them install the 4 posts.
You run two different amps into the M60s while both are hooked up?
Ofcourse one is always off while the other is playing. In my home theatre, everything is hooked up to the Denon 3805. Once that is off so is everything else.
The amp that is off will still be getting a signal from the one that has power. I'm real surprised you haven't damaged anything.
Binding post issue, sounds like the bi-amping capability to me. You can do 1 of 2 things here, I believe. If your not going to bi-amp you can buy banana plugs that allows you to plug one plug into the top of another. I know those that Axiom sells that are 2 plugs in one piece allows you to do that. Another thing you can do is special order them from Axiom and have them install the 4 posts.
I got you. I really hate banana Clips too. Being a military family, since I've owned My Axiom Speakers. I've lived in Colorado, Kansas, Texas, North Carolina and now Virginia. My banana clips have been bent and tossed. especially the ones that fit snug when you insert them.. Fuhgetaboutit.
If you are using the top post for one amp and the bottom for the second amp they are both getting the same signal. It would be no different than running both sets of wire to the same set of posts.
The amp that is off will still be getting a signal from the one that has power. I'm real surprised you haven't damaged anything.
so you are saying that a signal from the Denon poa 1500 goes to the Axiom Speaker, Than from the Axiom speaker to the Sony Ta-n330 Amp and than to the Denon 3805?? Beside upgading components and speakers. I've been running it like that for 10 years now. I think I bought my Axiom speakers in 2002 or 2003.
You are not using a speaker selector ? I must say if not it does surprise me nothing has went up in smoke....
Google "connecting 2 amps to the same speaker" and see what others say.
I thought you could order the M60's with dual binding posts for some extra cash($40), same as you can do with the VP180 or M80's, just checked it is there but you have to go through the "customize yours" section.
CW, welcome back. The M60v3 can have two sets of binding posts installed for a $40 premium(I had suggested that the premium be $1000). This is an essentially useless provision that could allow meaningless bi-wiring or bi-amping which isn't actually done in any significant numbers of home setups.
As to your present setup, if you've described it completely(and if we've understood what you've written), this is a bad practice, as Rick pointed out, and should be discontinued regardless of how long it's been in effect. The path of the power(voltage)flow would be from one amplifier down its wire and into the M60 and its connecting strip(which you surely have connected). Then, since the voltage doesn't know that you'd like it to go only into the speaker, it also goes from the connecting strip up the wire into the output stage of the other amplifier(regardless if it's off). The result should be at least increased distortion if not actual damage.
Thanks...Well, I guess I have to go look for a Speaker selector which I Bet a simple one from rat shack will not do.
If you are looking to get another set of M60s keep the ones you have for one system and the new one for the other.
If the OP has been running like this for 10 years, I find it hard to believe that he really needs to run out *today* and change his setup. If something were going to blow up, wouldn't it have done so by now?
He's running two amps, with two sets of wires, with (I assume) the bridging plates on the M60 intact. So each amp powers the whole speaker, but never both amps at the same time. I realize that the amps-don't-matter club* will find it incredulous that someone would actually want to do such a thing, but it's what the OP wants to do.
As to the original question, yes the new M60V3's don't come with the dual sets of posts by default. If you want to run your setup in the manner that you're accustomed to, Axiom can add the second set of posts of for a nominal fee.
*No need for debate, just stating a fact.
JohnK is correct. The OP not damaging his equipment should consider himself lucky. He ran his system like this for 10 years and might be lucky enough to run it for another 10 years but the fact is that even if there is only 1 amp ON at the time, if they both share the same connection, there will be some leakage current going to the amp that is off. It's like feeding an amp through its output with very low current, never a good idea and susceptible to damage.
I would also assume that if he buys new speakers and runs this type of setup that his warranty would be void...
After much research it seems that I was extremely lucky. I found more negatives than positives on this setup. My denon 3805 has a feature called Pure Direct which turns off the video processing and anything unnecessary when listening to stereo/analog but it always seemed off to me. and than I got hit with a Duh Stick. I have to turn off the bass management in Pure direct. Can someone tell me if this is the way to go? Will running my TT/PhonoPreamp/Denon3805/Denonpoa1500/axiomM60 degrade the sound in any way? Right now my phono preamp is in pieces because I'm changing the capacitors, adding audiophile 47k resistors and grid stoppers. I won't be able to hear any difference until I'm finished modding the Phono Pre.
CW, it isn't entirely clear what your "the way to go?" question refers to. I never use a direct or pure mode, since I want all processing possibilities available and there's no significant disadvantage. In a "pure" type of mode the noise floor is slightly lower, but this isn't meaningful since it's already below audibility at typical volume settings from the usual listening position.
If your question about the turntable setup refers to it being connected to the speaker at the same time, the previous problem still exists. Otherwise, there'd be no reason for it to "degrade" the sound to any extent other than might be inherent in that format as compared with the CD.
sounds to me like they removed the biamp/biwiring feature as a cost cutting measure. Most towers in the $1k/pair allow for bi-amping and this puts Axiom at a disadvantage IMO.
Having extra terminals is pointless unless the woofers have a separate crossover from the mid/tweets, or if you have an active crosover which is a completely different set up. Companies put the extra terminals on there to put satisfy the consumer, even though it does nothing.
Indeed, Axiom removed the dual connectors in the default configuration to put an end to the silliness of including features that do nothing but tick a box on a list.
Chris has it exactly right.
Really, doesn't he always?
Does this mean I can send the eight extra binding post back on my older M80s and 60s for a refund or allowance towards other Axioms products?
I sure as hell don't need 'em.
Excellent idea!
Indeed, Axiom removed the dual connectors in the default configuration to put an end to the silliness of including features that do nothing but tick a box on a list.
Ah, but consumers do love their tick boxes. When the competition has more tick boxes than you, it can be a tough sell. I learned that the hard way.
Axiom just needs to create a new "feature"...
Yes, I do hate myself sometimes.
That was very good Chris
CW, it isn't entirely clear what your "the way to go?" question refers to. I never use a direct or pure mode, since I want all processing possibilities available and there's no significant disadvantage. In a "pure" type of mode the noise floor is slightly lower, but this isn't meaningful since it's already below audibility at typical volume settings from the usual listening position.
If your question about the turntable setup refers to it being connected to the speaker at the same time, the previous problem still exists. Otherwise, there'd be no reason for it to "degrade" the sound to any extent other than might be inherent in that format as compared with the CD.
What I meant when I said "The way to go" is the Setup. Ofcourse I'm not running two amp into the main anymore. To bypass or not the Denon 3805? I don't want any processing what so ever. NOTHING. I want a pure sound from my TT, Cinemag Sut, Phonopreamp with NOS telefunken and mullard tubes, Denon poa 1500, M60ti..Apparently, the pure direct mode only reproduces the signal coming in but i found out that I have to turn off the Subwoofer in that mode to get true two channel sound. If the pure Direct Mode does what is says it does, than there is no reason for me to run two different setups. One for home theatre and one for analog music playback. I have to do more research onthe Pure Direct mode. The other question. is upgrading from a m60ti to a version 3 really worth the extra investment? If it is than I'll have to put my speakers up for sale.
If the pure Direct Mode does what is says it does, than there is no reason for me to run two different setups. One for home theatre and one for analog music playback. I have to do more research onthe Pure Direct mode.
Although the manual and others always say the “Pure Direct” mode bypasses all processing on my Denon 2807 it had a menu option to have the subwoofer either “ON” or “OFF” in all 2ch modes. This setting was separate from the various multi-channel modes which could have the subwoofer turned “ON” even if it was “OFF” in 2ch.
On my Onkyo I simply cycle through the output options were “Direct” doesn’t use the subwoofer but “Stereo” does if I set it to in a submenu.
I imagine you should have the option to have the subwoofer not be engaged when using 2ch modes just a matter of finding the settings.