Thought I'd pass this along - this amp has won many awards, I haven't heard it, but it is a Marantz and easily drives 4 ohm loads.

$500. http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?sku=AMARAPM7200

You gotta love symmetrical layouts. Looks nice!

2x6 -

Thanks for passing along. Would love to hear if anyone has hear this amp versus similarly priced 5 ch receiver (HK / Denon / Onkyo) to see if there's a noticeable difference in sound and characteristics.

Not as pretty as that $5K tube amp, but I could afford this one.
Does that 25 watts of Class A power result in drastically better sound reproduction? Would one be in danger of clipping one's speakers if pushing them hard in that mode? Maybe the 5 channel Marantz is a better deal, even at twice the money?

Hello BigWill

I don't think 25 watts is a problem. Axiom's are efficient with good sensitivity - I'd figure if you really pushed your Axioms with a full 25 watts of Pure Class A output you're waking the neighbors and waiting for the police to arrive.

I'd say that you're more likely to use the Class A setting for music and the regular 95 wpc setting for HT anyway.

Please stop posting pictures of pretty audio components. You are killing me and my credit cards.

2x6spds,
I hope no one minds if I change the subject but I was woundering what tube amp you would recommend for just stereo listining Thanks,Lee

Hello koiman

Interesting question - which tube amp to drive a pair of M80s. This question calls for a slight digression - comparison between book shelf and tower speakers. The more I listen to towers, the more I realize I prefer book shelf speakers. I have auditioned M60s, had a pair of M50s, and use a pair of M60 like Michaura M665s in my HT system. I had a pair of M3Tis, have a pair of M2es, and use Michaura M55s and M66s (the former like the M22, the latter like the M22s but with a pair of Axiom 6.5" aluminun drivers instead of a pair of 5.25"s as used in the M22s and M55s. I prefer music from the smaller book shelf units because they sound more coherent to me, quicker and more musical. The towers all sound sort of like a collection of drivers in a box. I don't know whether this is a function of the cross-overs used or the nature of the beast.

My personal favorite set up is a pair of Michaura M66s driven by a 5 wpc SET Antique Sound Labs MG S1 15DT integrated amp. My second favorite set up is that amp driving a pair of Michaura M55s (x-overs modified with Caddock resistors and Jensen paper/oil caps), closely followed by that amp driving a pair of Axiom M3Tis. For some reason the M22Tis just didn't sound right in this set up. M50s sounded worse, even though the M50s, in their much larger cabinets, use the same 2x6.5" aluminum drivers as the M66s, though all the Axioms use a 1" tweeter instead of the 3/4" Merak style titanium tweeter used by the Michauras.

Anyway, I have a feeling that the M80s require more power to 'open them up.' The best bang for the buck in tube amps, and maybe any kind of amp, is the Antique Sound Labs Hurricane monoblocks. These list for about $5,000 a pair but can be had from Upscale Audio for about $3,200. Absolute Sound rate these amps as the best out there.

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/ check out used, demos and specials.


I think these 200 watt tube monoblocks should be able to get the most out of the M80s, but for me, I'd go with a pair of M3Tis, modify the cross-over, give up on the warranty, and get a nice $1000 or less SET tube amp.

Hope that helped.

2x6spds,
I just purchased a pair of axiom M3ti for just stereo use..I was woundering which one ,of these units would work the best with these speakers Antique MG SI 15DT or the Antique AQ1003 30 watt.
Thanks,
Lee

Ola KM

I auditioned both amps, and bought the MG S1 15DT. To my ears, there was no comparison.

I replaced the stock tubes with 1962 GE 12AX7's and Svetlana KT88s.

My first set up matched the ASL amp with a pair of M3Tis, and a Velodyne CHT10 sub. SET Magic!!

What kind of source are you thinking of?

2x6 spd,
I found a MG SI 5 Dt for around $650.00 but it is the second upgrade not the third. Do you think this is a good deal? Also I have a Denon 2900 DVD player and a Panasonic unit I can use for the system for stereo sound. How old is your unit, if you don't mind me asking.
Thanks,
Lee

I went and auditioned a Cary SLI-80
http://www.caryaudio.com/products/audio/sli80.shtml
vs a SimAudio Moon i-5 integrated
http://www.simaudio.com/mooni5.htm
with the Dynaudio Contour S1.4
http://www.dynaudio.com/eng/contour/contour14.htm
and Martin Logan Aeon
http://martinlogan.com/aeon_i_speaker.html
All items above where in the $4000 cdn range each.
Having me/and then my dad switching the amps using A-B type setup we both preffered the solid state over the tube. In all time there was more detail in the midrange and highs with solid state. The tubes did well with guitar and horns which gave it a lifelike sound I still enjoyed the numourous amounts of detail the Moon integrated was pushing. As with better midrange quality and pinpointing...the Dynaudio monitor did a better job than the electrostatic Martin Logans. That monitor imaged like crazy...very very detailed and sweet.

Saturn, those are some interesting systems you listened to. The Martin Logans and the Dynaudios especially require big power to drive them. I can't think of any speakers less suitable to most tube amps than the MLs or the very inefficient 4 ohm, difficult to drive, Dynaudios. Both set ups require big power solid state amplification.

I've only listened to 2 Cary's and was surprised not to like them. I noticed a pretty high background sound level with these amps.

Someday, you may want to try some low power SET tube amps with efficient speakers - you may like this combination better - I know I do.

KM, my first source was a 10 year old JVC 5 disc changer which sounded great. I upgraded to a Cambridge D500SE, sounded like crap. Ended up with an Ah! Njoe Tjoeb tube output modified Marantz CDP and found the perfect match for SET tube magic.

BTW, Jeff's Sound Values down near San Diego has an MG S1 15DT-S for $525. There shouldn't be any difference between the last 2 generations of this amp. The new one uses the new chassis but its components, sockets, wiring, tubes, etc. are the same.

http://www.jeffssoundvalues.com/Inventory/Preamps.htm

2x6 spds,
What do you think about the 2nd revision ASL MG Si 15 DT do you think it's worth $650.00
Thanks,
Lee

2x6 spds,
Sorry you must have written just about the time I started to write you.
Thanks,
Lee

Thats what I figured...I wished the guy in the store schlepped over the Triangle Celius which is more tube friendly and is pretty efficient. I guess I personally wont be going tubes since most of the speakers I own happen to be in the 4ohm or less range.
Would you go as far and stating less efficient speakers with low ohm range is better suited with solid state while more efficient speakers that have metal drivers would work well to tame the "harshness"... but then again we shouldn't go there.

Have you tried A-B with the same speakers your SS and tube gear? and see what the difference is?

Hi Saturn

Not exactly. Tubes like a resistive load. A resistive load is characterized by a flat impedance, and an inductive rather than a capacitive phase angle. Tube amps tend to do better with speakers which do not make large current demands on the amp by swinging from 8 ohms to 2 ohms and back again. Gradual impedence changes are easier for tube amps to drive. Tubes like a steady load - capacitance is the opposite. When a speaker behaves in a capacitant manner, it presents an uneven load to the amp, asking the tube amp to put out large quantities of current in a short amount of time. Speakers which make such demands on amps are not tube friendly.

Therefore, what makes a speaker tube friendly is not whether it is rated at 4 ohms or 8 ohms, but rather whether the speaker's impedance is relatively flat and consistently hovers around 4 ohms, and if the phase angles are more inductive than capacitive.

Same for efficiency ratings - if you look at the graphs of some speakers rated at 8 ohms you will see that they are measuring less than 4 ohms for much of their fr curve.

Stereo Times has a review of the Dynaudio Audience book shelf speakers - a very tough load for a tube amp, a very demanding load for a solid state amp!
http://www.stereotimes.com/speak081604.shtm

Martin Logans and Maggies like really powerful solid state amps.

The M3Ti is an extremely tube friendly speaker. I think part of the reason for this is that there is no cross over between the amp and the driver, the simple cross over is hooked to the tweeter only.

The Triangle Celius is a wonderful speaker, very tube friendly even with the ASL 5 wpc MG S1 15 SET amp.

I haven't A-B'd my M22 like Michaura M55s with tube and solid state, but I had 2 set up with my 5 wpc tubie and have 4 M55s in my office system. The front 2 are driven by a Yamaha M80 gentle BRUTE of a 250 wpc 2 channel amp - the side surround pair driven by a 100 wpc Onkyo M282. I listen to mostly music on the HT system. I love them both, the Yamaha is an exceptional amplifier and makes stunningly beautiful music. But for kicking back at the end of the day my favorite system for music is the 2 channel tube system.