Axiom Home Page
Posted By: sonicfox "white van" speakers story - 10/09/04 05:34 PM
This came as a hilarious shocker to me when I discovered last night that I actually own a pair of the well known "white van" scam speakers that are often sold in parking lots. Here they are, the infamous Acoustic Response series 707:
http://www.swcp.com/pcaskey/gifs/ar-707.gif

I bought these speakers about ten years ago (I've learned a lot since then!) at a pawn shop for around $90.00. Keep in mind that these were my first set of my very own speakers that I could afford and my only source back then to compare them to was my portable Panasonic system (those 80's boomboxes with detachable speakers). I thought, "oh my gosh, these have great bass!" Little did I know that I would eventually come to despise that bass. I was also impressed with the nice gold metal knobs on the front. I thought I was getting a good deal on something that looked like they were sold only for expensive professional installations.

I'll tell you what finally brought me to research these speakers. I hadn't even listened to them in a LONG time. They were just sitting there taking up space in my bedroom and were being used only as stands for pictures and a satellite receiver! But just recently I asked you guys about buying an older stereo receiver to replace my junk Sony because I was finally going to upgrade the bedroom system. Someone mentioned that I should just look for something new since I was just wanting 2 channel. I didn't want anything expensive, but I wanted something that sounded nice. To make a long story a little bit shorter, I ended up with a Rotel RA-01 integrated amp for $310. It sounds VERY satisfying although I probably could have gotten a Denon or something similar for less money. Well, that's beside the point.

Anyway, I took the amp home and decided to hook it up these monsterous speakers to see what it could do with them. Believe it or not, it tightened up that loose boomy bass that I remembered so well. Still, the sound was reminiscent of speakers that used to come with those all-in-one component systems with the turn table on top that were popular in the late 80's. Remember those...always looked fancy, but usually sounded like crap? I used to want one of those! I was so naive.

Well, it had been awhile since I had listened to these crap speakers and by now I have come to recognize and appreciate good quality sound ever since I've been listening to my Axiom M60's for a little over a year. So I chose this time after all these years to investigate how such expensive looking speakers (although ugly & vintage looking) could sound so bad even with Rotel's clean power. I couldn't help but to laugh out loud at my discovery! I guess that is why I felt compelled to share this story although I feel a bit ashamed about it! Thank goodness I was never approached by one of those vans ten years ago because I probably would have fell for the scam and paid twice as much!

The purpose of replacing the bedroom system is to get something highly enjoyable (and listenable!), but not loud. So I've decided to get rid of those monsters and replace them with the Axiom M3's. Initially, I was going to get the M22's, but I will not have a sub. Apparently, the M3's are a bit better with bass in that respect. Also, before I bought the Rotel, I found a review of it online matched to the M3's and they were found to be a very musical together. I'm sure I won't be disappointed...but I'll be sacrificing a LOT of bass! HA!HA!
Posted By: bridgman Re: "white van" speakers story - 10/09/04 06:08 PM
I liked the last line on the brochure -- "Manufacturer's suggested prices do not reflect a bona fide selling price in the metro trading area".

Your speakers do seem to be better than my current surrounds, they even have a bigger tweeter

I don't think we have white vans up here in Canada, guess they get lost in the snow or something...
Posted By: DJ_Stunna Re: "white van" speakers story - 10/09/04 06:19 PM
LOL! One of my friends has a pair that looks similar to that, although the writing on the mid and treble gain knobs is different.

I think I'll go trade my new M60s with him .
Posted By: Thasp Re: "white van" speakers story - 10/09/04 06:19 PM
What the.. what kind of speaker has a crossover to the midrange driver at 1 KHz? Must've sounded like crap. Glad to hear you're upgrading.
Posted By: DJ_Stunna Re: "white van" speakers story - 10/09/04 06:33 PM
In reply to:

what kind of speaker has a crossover to the midrange driver at 1 KHz?




Only speakers designed for the most dynamic range of requirements that meet the highest standards for autdio applications.
Posted By: rcvecc Re: "white van" speakers story - 10/09/04 06:39 PM
i believe those speakers are available in a burlap finish also
Posted By: CosmicVoyager Re: "white van" speakers story - 10/09/04 06:52 PM
They seem to find their way here in Colorado. I've run into one white van since I've been here in Colorado Springs. It's actually fun to mess with the salesman.
Posted By: JohnK Re: "white van" speakers story - 10/10/04 03:59 AM
But Mary, just think what a terrific deal you got on the 707s; $749 list!

Since you're used to the sound of the M60s, it's quite possible that you might prefer the M22s even without a sub, which is how I generally use mine. With room reinforcement, I get usable response down to 40Hz, which is adequate for most music. The M3s aren't necessarily "better" with bass; the extension is about the same, with if anything a slight edge to the M22s. The M3s have an elevated response in the upper bass around 100-150Hz, which gives an impression of better, "warmer" bass to both fundamentals in that area and the second harmonics of the lower bass around 50-70Hz, but the M22s are a bit more accurate there.
Posted By: sonicfox Re: "white van" speakers story - 10/10/04 05:12 AM
Oh, John...now I'm all confused again! I spent about two hours the other day searching the board whether or not I was going with the M3's or the M22's. I didn't want to ask because the subject has been beaten into the ground. It seems for people that have heard both, they are divided pretty much equal as to which one they favor so I figured I won't be disappointed either way. But several recommended if there will be no sub, the M3's would probably be best. They also cost $125 less than the M22's. But now that you point about the bass not necessarily being "better" on the M3's and even less accurate, I'm going to have to reconsider my decision. I didn't really want to spend a lot on the bedroom system because I'll be pissed off if I find it more enjoyable than the few thousand dollar setup in the living room! Maybe I just forget about Axiom and get some Bose instead! (just kidding!).
Posted By: DJ_Stunna Re: "white van" speakers story - 10/10/04 12:06 PM
Well, if it's purely a budget system, why not get some Paradigm Atoms? They are about $180/pr, and are supposed to be awesome for the price. They also seem to have good bass, from what I hear.

SoundStage!
SoundStage! Followup
Stereophile
GoodSound!
Posted By: bridgman Re: "white van" speakers story - 10/10/04 01:07 PM
I have not heard M3s but I am back to having M2s as my mains upstairs. My guess is that the music you will be listening to makes a difference here. On acoustic jazz the M2s don't seem to give up a thing in the bass area -- you can listen to them for days and never feel you were missing any bass, but on rock content they definitely sound "thin" on the low end.

My understanding is that in terms of "real" bass the M22s and M3s are not all that different, but the M3 tends to sound better as an all-round full-range speaker because of a very slight emphasis in the mid-bass, just enough to make it sound better as a full-range speaker. The M22 doesn't have that slight mid-bass emphasis and is strictly speaking more accurate but without a sub the M3s are probably going to sound a bit better as an all-round speaker on a wide range of material.

That's how I understand it anyways. I can give you M2 vs. M60 comparisons all day but don't have M3s or M22s so this is nothing more than an attempt to summarize and "value-weight" all the posted comments on the speakers.

I went with M2s which I love, assuming that I would add a sub as a next step, but have to admit that M3s would probably have been a better choice for me since I ended up running them stand-alone anyways.

As the last poster said the M22s will probably sound closer to your M60s than the M3s will but a lot of people have also commented that they PREFER the slightly "gentler" M3/M40 sound in their bedroom because the purpose of the system is slightly different. Good luck with your choice. In your case I would probably still lean towards M3s.

[EDIT] I re-read your first post and chopped a bunch of stuff out of my post as a result
Posted By: lomb7 Re: "white van" speakers story - 10/10/04 11:59 PM
This reminds me of that tool of a guy that brought started the Streem speaker fight. Remember that one?
Posted By: DJ_Stunna Re: "white van" speakers story - 10/11/04 01:22 AM
There have been SO many flames on this forum that I can't even remember them. What a pitty!
Posted By: bridgman Re: "white van" speakers story - 10/11/04 01:50 AM
At least the only fight so far is which model of Axiom the "brand X" speakers should be replaced with...
Posted By: LT61 Re: "white van" speakers story - 10/11/04 02:15 PM
Man these guys must really get around!.......When I moved to Florida, (1985) I was approached (at the local mall) by "guys in a van" to buy speakers.

The gimmick back then was: "we picked up 6 pair of (studio monitor)....(ha ha),.... speakers from the loading dock..............after delivering our load, we discovered 1 pair left, and we CAN'T return them,(supposedly 1 pair too many was loaded),.........so we HAVE to get rid of them at a huge loss"......blah blah.
Thankfully, I never got suckered.


Posted By: WhatFurrer Re: "white van" speakers story - 10/11/04 04:05 PM
Seen them here in Austin too...they caught me a couple of years ago at the car wash of all places...

I knew better...did jerk them around a bit though.

Happy with my Axioms now.

WhatFurrer
Posted By: rcvecc Re: "white van" speakers story - 05/13/05 01:09 AM
more victims in connecticut-today a friend told me that he scored bigtime on a surround system,he said he got 4000 dollars of equiptment for 190 dollars...and to make it worse he called a friend of his and he came down and grabed a system too...the scumbag in the van followed him to the atm.....the name of the co. is theater research----yes we broke his balls,and we will continue tomorrow
Posted By: bray Re: "white van" speakers story - 05/13/05 01:17 AM
I think you can find them on e-bay for $180.00.
Break his balls some more.
Posted By: RobSullivan6368 Call for a refund *DELETED* - 06/17/07 09:09 PM
Post deleted by Amie
Posted By: avdude Re: "white van" speakers story - 06/17/07 09:48 PM
The "white van dudes" are currently working the East GTA of Ontario Canada .. I know a guy at work who was had a week ago and have heard form others of people they know .. so warn your Buds if your in or around the Toronto Area.. This scam is alive and well..

Avdude
Posted By: JohnK Re: Call for refund - 06/18/07 03:07 AM
Hold it. Just publishing a guy's phone number and a claim that he's a ripoff artist doesn't fly without more details. Otherwise this should be deleted.
Posted By: RobSullivan6368 Re: "white van" speakers story - 06/22/07 06:41 AM
White van Speaker Scams

If you fall victim to a white van scam, contact your local police and Better Business Bureau.

It is the weekend and you are dashing to complete a list of errands. As you pull into the parking lot of a neighborhood mall or store, you see some enticing signs for “high quality” equipment, furniture, jewelry or artwork that is displayed on the blacktop. The advertised prices are extremely low and worth checking out, you decide. Think again, as you are about to get taken.

It is known as the “white van” or the “parking lot peddler” scam. People driving white vans or sport utility vehicles pull into a parking lot to display their wares. The packaging looks legitimate, the merchants will swear that the products are not stolen, and assure you that they can be returned if you are not completely satisfied. What they do not tell you is that they will be long gone by the time you discover the products are defective, not high quality, or counterfeit brands. The salesperson’s “satisfaction guaranteed” or “return for full refund” claims are worthless.

It is best to exercise similar caution when evaluating goods displayed on card tables set up on busy sidewalks. The merchants will assure you that the purses are designer brands, the jewelry 24-carat gold and the watches top quality. While the prices may be attractive and the merchandise tempting, think about your recourse should you not be satisfied with your purchase. Are you going to be able to track down that particular sidewalk vendor again? If he is not there, do you know the name of their business and its physical location? Were you provided with a business card with contact information or a sales receipt with a printed return and exchange policy? Chances are, the answer to each of these questions is “no.”

At the very least, contact your local Better Business Bureau and ask about the merchant and the manufacturer of the product before making a purchasing decision. The BBB may have a report on the company with helpful information.

BBBs also hear the heartbreaking stories of complainants after the fact. The stereo speakers do not work or cannot be configured properly. The furniture smells of chemicals and appears to be “used” rather than “brand new.” The jewelry has left a green mark on their skin. The purse is counterfeit.

Unfortunately, sidewalk vendors and parking lot peddlers travel quickly through town. They do not stay in any one place for very long before moving on. If you fall victim to a white van scam, contact your local police and Better Business Bureau. At the very least, your call can help warn others who may be tempted by the “great” deals.
8/9/2004
© Axiom Message Boards