I have a Pioneer VSX-D810s 6.1 receiver driving Axiom VP150, M60s, QS8s, and a Rat Shack passive subwoofer (driven off the rear surround channel). It is rated at 100W x 6 channels with 1% THD (yikes!). I was not pleased with the sound at higher volumes. The receiver frequently shutdown, and ran VERY hot. Driving the M60s by themselves (stereo only) was not very good.
I was planning on upgrading to something like a Denon 2805/ 3805.
However, was able to borrow a used Bryston 3B stereo power amp (120W per channel 8 ohms <0.0009% THD). I hooked this beast up to the M60s, and was absolutely AMAZED at the difference. Even at lower volumes (<80 db SPL) the bass is much fuller, cleaner; I even turned the sub off. My wife noticed the difference right away.
Is it the higher wattage rating, the lower distortion rating, and/or the poor amplification of the Pioneer? Probably all of the above.
So basically the Pioneer is a pre-amp for the Bryston for the main speakers. I am able to put the Bryston into clipping at about 3/4 volume. Going to borrow a Bryton pre-amp and see what difference this makes.
My dilema is... do I buy the Bryston that I borrowed, or put the money to buying a better reciever like the Denon?
Hmmm...
I know nothing about the Pioneer or the Bryson. But I can’t imagine that you would run into clipping with something that has 120 watts per channel. I have a Denon 1905 (80 watts per) and a par of M50's. I think my ears would bleed before the receive started clipping. But I'm sure I'll try it some day
Quoting the Bryston manual:
"All Bryson amps use bicolor LEDs with green indicating power on and red indicating actual overload or distortion. If the LED indicator contains substantial red content, it should be considered as a sign that the level is too high and may cause speaker damage if it continues...."
"The clip-sensing circuit uses an AC comparator to detect any souce of signal distorion including clipping, short circuits in cablig, excessive DC, or supersonic signal at the input or output. Most condition which could cause the red LED to light for more than a moment or two can be dangerous to your loud speakers and should be corrected immediately."
Perhaps the Bryton is not clipping.
I'm thinking the red LEDs are coming on because of distortion from the Pioneer. Thats why I want to try it with the Bryston pre-amp.
BTW, the system is for a 9000 cu ft room (24x36).
barilkobart,
If you watch more movies than listen to music, then upgrade your receiver to the 3805. But if you listen to music more than watch movies, I recommend buying the Bryston 3B or comparable amps for the front. I have the Denon 3803 for my theater room and a parasound/NAD combo for my music listening room. The Denon 3803 sound very thin compared to the parasound/NAD combo for music, but for movie, the processing is awesome.
-Jerry
>>I'm thinking the red LEDs are coming on because of distortion from the Pioneer. Thats why I want to try it with the Bryston pre-amp.
If I remember correctly the clip detector circuitry compares the input and (scaled) output signals for the final stages of the power amp and flashes the clipping lights if the two signals start to differ. Distortion from the receiver would be reproduced by the power amp so that would not trigger the clipping lights.
If the clipping lights are coming on then you're probably clipping... unless there is something wrong with the detector circuitry.
Disclaimer -- it's been a long time since I actually knew anything about this stuff
Barilkobart,
Good Heavens! Your room is huge! (almost four times the volume of a standard room.) You were driving the Pioneer into clipping and shutdown trying for loud sound in a huge room where you should be using a separate power amplifier like the Bryston, and a larger one since you drove the 3B into clipping. Colleagues of mine at Axiom with a taste for high playback levels who have large rooms use power amplifiers rated at 200 to 350 watts per channel with Axiom M80s in the main channels.
From what you indicate, Ithe Denon AV receivers would not be adequate for rooms of that size and the sort of levels you are seeking. Most AV receivers do not produce nearly the output claimed when more than one or two channels are driven. (H/K is one of the few that do.)
By the way, the Brystons are excellent power amplifiers, built in a town (Peterborough, Ontario) not that far from where Axiom is located (Dwight, Ont.). We have Brystons at the Axiom plant and at the National Research Council in Ottawa.
Regards,
Picked up a used Harman Kardon DPR 2005 off the internet.
I am still using the Bryston 3B to drive the M60s mains, but have set the crossover to 40Hz with the mains configured as small.
Previously, I had the mains set to large because the old receiver crossed at 100Hz.
I am now able to crank to insane levels without the clipping lights going red on the Bryston.
What a difference! Being able to configure the individual crossover point for your speakers is VERY important.
Going to try it without the Bryston to see if I still need it.
BarilkoBart
Axiom VP150/M60/QS8/AX1.5
SVS PB10
HK DPR 2005
Bryston 3B