Hi all,
I am need more speakers and was looking at these two speakers for the kids living room. Mainly used for music and some tv but not in a 5.1 set up just for left/right fronts most likely wihtout a sub.
I like my 60's so much and thought about getting another set but these will be mainly for the kids and you all know kids nowadays do not appreciate the finer things in life.

If you're going with just a pair of speakers without a sub, I would recommend the M3s. They have a little better bass response

Actually the bass response of both is published at 60 HZ. What gives the M3s the sense of better bass output is that they are recessed in the 250 HZ to 2 KHZ range then bumped back up around 100 HZ.

Ok Wid. Please explain that recessed and bumped back thing to me.

Never mind Wid. I found the graphs.

But, why is the 3 bumped at 100 and not the 22?

As you can see from these graphs the M22s are pretty flat across the entire graph. With the M3s you can see that the graph dips down in the 150 HZ to 2 KHZ range. At around 100 hZ they bump back up. This will give the M3s a sense of better bass output.





In my first reply it should have been 150 not 250.

Thanks for putting up the graphs. Is it the driver, the cabinet or both that cause the dip in the 22?

putput?

Wid, it is to cold for putput....

Yeah it would be Thanks Randy I fixed it.

"are pretty are pretty" ? dude, I've known a few guys that stutter, but to type stutter, now that involves talent.

Hey I had to practice a lot to get that good

I know a couple of people who bought M22s for no-sub music systems and ended up having to add a sub before they were really happy with them. Everyone I know with M3-only systems is perfectly happy with them and doesn't feel the need for a sub.

Definitely go with M3s.

Well that sure seems to be the way to go from all accounts. I wasn't saying that the M3s wouldn't do good I was just pointing out why they would be perceived to have better bass output yet having the same rated bass response as the M22s.

Rick, one "pretty" was sufficient, but I loved the "bass putput", which could be said to be a fair comment on the effect of the bump in the upper bass. Haven't heard the M3s, but I'm familiar with the similar effect used in the small Paradigm speakers to give an impression of better bass. This happens both because a fundamental bass note in that 100-150Hz range is a bit louder than it should be and the 2nd and 3rd harmonics of lower fundamentals are overemphasized. My experience is that the bass of the M22s is accurate and adequate for most music even when used without a sub and is usable with room gain to about 40Hz.

For whatever reason John that reply was giving me some serious trouble

Thanks all for the feedback. Although I am at a loss when it comes to detailed graphs and hz, khz db ect,ect. I wish I kne half of what you all know. I am leaning towards the M3.
I will be going on anothed trip to Vegas in a week or two and if I do good I just might get another M60. I really do nopt want to get a subwoofer for that room.

>>I was just pointing out why they would be perceived to have better bass output yet having the same rated bass response as the M22s.

Agreed. If you go to the Soundstage reviews and overlay all of the response curves you actually find that the M22 has a tiny bit more bass than M3 at 60 Hz, so I always assumed it would be better for standalone use than the M3.

In practice, that bump around 100 Hz does really seem to make a difference in perceived bass output. When I A/Bed a borrowed pair of M3s against my M60s it was surprising how close they sounded when listening casually. There were obvious differences in sound between the two, but my conclusion was that if I had originally purchased M3s instead of M2s I would probably still be listening happily to them rather than buying a sub and finding myself trapped in the downward spiral of ever-increasing home theater performance

I've had M22s, M3s and M2is. In my systems, I prefer the M3s, with or without a sub. For a stand alone without sub I'd rate them M3, M22, M2. JMHO.

From a newbie, this is a nice thread with great information! I suspect continual lurking on this forum will help me choose the correct speakers for my tastes. Thanks.

Welcome to the forum Wayne.

Not to Hijack but.... do you guys think the same holds true for the wm3's? because i am thinking about 2 -3 pairs of the wm3s for livingroom kitchen and dining room.

I don't claim to know Axiom's design philosophies, but they may have designed the 22's to work with a sub, where you would want as flat of a response as possible to promote a smooth transition through the crossover region. The M3 may have a bump down low, because they knew that many would use it without a sub, where you would want the perceived bass increase so you would not feel you were missing something down low. Just a thought

Jake, if you do some searching, I'm pretty sure Tharkun posted how surprised he was at the amount of bass his W3's put out.

I find this thread interesting. I'm considering one of these for a bar area, strickly music, all top 40, rock,alternative, some rap, dance music, all stuff the women play during a party. The room has laminate hardwoord, the uniclic stuff, it's in a basement with a subfloor, 8' ceilings. At first I will not be putting a sub down there.

which ones? I like a speaker that has a nice detailed highs, decent bass ( considering it's a bookshelf and all) and not too much mids. I love my m80's.

We had three hurricanes bop thru here year before last, and I took my M3s along with us on all three evacuations.

True story.

Finer things in life? Yeah; the M3s too.