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Posted By: aladinsan Bookshelf hell! - 04/03/06 10:19 PM
A few questions:
Which Axiom speaker (M3i vs. M2i) would work best with a sub setup?
Looking for recommendations for a sub that is equally cost effective(?).

Will they perform at the level I hear at local shops?
B&W 600 series / Paradigm Studio 20 / Vienna Haydn type of speakers

Lastly, how will they perform compared to an Energy RC-10?

I am leaning towards a M21 with a good sub.

Equipment: Anthem 200 power-amp with a Carver C-16 pre. I play a wide range of music and still play vinyl.

Thank you for any advise on this subject.....
Posted By: danmagicman7 Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/03/06 10:43 PM
The M22's do an excellent job. Numerous reviews state that for you to get anything noticably better than the M22's, you'd need to spend significantly more money. You won't be dissapointed with them.

How big is your room?

The HSU STF-2 is an all star performer as a sub. It is, in my opinion, the best bang-for-your buck subwoofer. With music, that is almost undisputed. For movies, a few other subs jump into position but the HSU STF-2 is a very musical sub.

It retails for $400

HSU STF-2


I listen to music in straight stereo mode on my reciever with my M22's and STF-2 and couldn't be happier.
Posted By: aladinsan Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/03/06 10:48 PM
Thanks! Are the M22's the same as the M2i's?

Room: 19 X 21 w/ 20'+ ceiling
Posted By: danmagicman7 Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/03/06 10:52 PM
No, the M2's have only one 5.25" driver.

The M22's have 2 of them. They are the taller bookshelf.

The M22 is axiom's best bookshelf.
Posted By: Wid Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/03/06 11:09 PM
That's a pretty big room for any bookshelf speaker to fill. If at all possible I would be looking into a tower speaker.
Posted By: danmagicman7 Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/03/06 11:31 PM
M22's plus a sub will cost just about as much as M60's.

Thing is wid, wouldn't the sub + m22's fill the room better or about the same as the M60's?

Speaking in musical only terms.
Posted By: Wid Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 12:57 AM
I would have think for a room that size a set of floorstanding speakers would be able to acheive high spls. I would also have to beleive the M60 or M80s would give a much fuller sound.
Posted By: michael_d Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 01:20 AM
Book shelf speakers can not do what a tower can. Not even with a sub. I've experimented with my 22's and while they are a great little speaker, they are exactly that......a little speaker.

Get the 60's. Pick up a sub at a later date when you have more cash.
Posted By: Wid Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 01:29 AM

That's pretty much what I would have figured.
Posted By: spiffnme Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 01:42 AM
That is a pretty large room. You'd be asking an awful lot of a bookshelf speaker to fill it. I don't think I'd even try to get the little M2i to try it. I have a pair of M2i's and love them, but it's not fair to think they'd fill a room that large.

I suggest you get a pair or towers (M60ti from the factory outlet) and enjoy. If you really want more depth, save some more coin, and get a sub down the road.

Bottom line...that room is too big for a small bookshelf speaker.


Posted By: aladinsan Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 02:21 AM
Since the speakers will be placed on an entertainment center (top) and the tower is not an option, I will continue down the monitor path. I have auditioned small speakers that could easily do the trick. The sub can make or break this setup.

The tweeter and mid on many monitors are the exact same component on the towers in many cases.

My goal is not loud, it is excellent quality and a great value. This system will remain a two channel and my next room will get my first home theater setup. I have never been that interested in home theaters, but am in the process of finishing my basement in my new home.

Again, thank you for the advise.
Posted By: danmagicman7 Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 02:34 AM
Sitting close to the speakers will do just fine.

However, how "high" are you putting the M22's? Are they going to be in tight places? M22's need a few inches in the back for the port "breathe".
Posted By: JohnK Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 03:06 AM
Al, welcome. Any speaker can "fill" the room that it's playing in; the question is if you can have an adequately high sound level at your listening position. This can be roughly calculated using reasonable assumptions. Budget appears to be a major factor in your decision and at reasonable levels you should do well with M2s plus one of several fine subs in the $200-$300 range, such as the Hsu STF-1, Outlaw LFM-2 and XSub from AV123.
Posted By: 2x6spds Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 04:24 AM
Hello aladinsan

I've had M22s, M3s, M2s (M50s) as well. I've used each of these speakers for music with a sub. In my systems, the speaker which worked best for me was the Axiom M3Tis. Not by a little, by a lot. They imaged better than the M50s. I think the soundstage they throw is better than the M50s as well. The M3s are more musical than the M2s.

Personally, I think there are things that bookshelf speakers can do that towers do not do as well. Disappearing is one - superior soundstaging, superior imaging. The M3s are stars. They are not perfect - but they're great.
Posted By: aladinsan Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 11:00 AM
This seems to be at the heart of my decision. The M2i vs. the M3i. The speakers will be set rather high, which is not optimal (80"). Imaging and soundstaging comments in articles I read seem to conflict with each other. The M2i's receive high marks for clarity and detail.

They are so close in price, I am trying to direct myself to getting this right up front. I do not change system components very often, as exhibited by my amps.

I am also looking for articles the compare either speaker with more recent versions of speakers I have actually heard in stores. Much of what I have read is from 2000-2003.

Again, thank you for the advice. Trying to learn about subs is just as confusing. I want musical subs w/ accurate base, not distorted loud movie base. I would prefer a unit that is not to big! The AV123 looks attractive, but where is it sold?
Posted By: Wid Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 11:02 AM

X-Sub
Posted By: bridgman Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 12:55 PM
I would go with M3s given the size of your room unless you are going to only be listening at modest SPLs. They have a slight bass bump around 100-150 Hz as do most small speakers designed for standalone use but I don't think you will notice that very much.

The M2s are REALLY nice and extremely accurate (I ran a pair with sub for quite a while before upgrading to M60s) but the woofer is pretty small and that does limit the amount of "loud" you can get...
Posted By: Gena Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 01:27 PM
X-sub

How good is it compared to EP125 or EP175? How good are these low powered Axiom?

Thanks,
Gena
Posted By: michael_d Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 04:16 PM
I have m3's and m22's and m80's.

the m3's are much better than the m22's for stand alone music (more bass).

if running a sub, i'd go with m22's as they are much more detailed with better mids.

Why not buy all three, try them out, send back the two sets you don't want? that's what the 30 day in home trial period is for.
Posted By: alan Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 06:00 PM
Hello aladinsan,

The M22 in blind A/B tests is essentially indistinguishable from Pardigm's Studio 20, with a hair (perhaps 1 dB) more midrange and treble detail audible from the M22. The M2i is extremely close but not quite the equal of the M22 in clarity and detail. Both are more neutral than the B&W 600 Series. I've not heard the Vienna speakers so can't comment on those.

Both the M2i and M22 are more linear than the Energy. The Paradigm Studio 20 has a tiny bass hump like the M3ti, with a little less midrange and treble detail but we are talking nuances here.

Defining "musicality" is vague. If you run the M3 without a sub, then it's more musical because it has more subjective bass output. With a sub, either the M22 or M2 are more "musical" than the M3 because there is more clarity and detail in the mids and upper octaves than the M3 has.

But that term "musical" is kind of dumb. Speakers are not musical instruments, intended to impart their own sets of harmonics and tonal colorations to the incoming recorded signals of musical instruments. Ideally, they should be neutral reproducers, with no colorations added. The farther a speaker deviates from that ideal, the less neutral and the less "musical" it becomes.

A well-designed subwoofer, properly located and adjusted, will be as compelling and thrilling on powerful orchestral, jazz and pop music as it will on movie soundtracks. For your large room, the EP500 would be an excellent addition.

Regards,
Posted By: 2x6spds Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 07:07 PM
Describing the M3s as musical is "dumb"? Alan, you are an offensive, arrogant twit. I suppose your years of service as a flak qualifies you as the resident Axiom expert with a license to insult Axiom owners. I recall your description of the tube output, Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CDP as a "distortion generator," all the more interesting since you admit you never heard one. I bought mine because it was well reviewed by audio commentators whose opinions I respect, and as for my own experience with the Ah!, Ah think it's great.

Anyway, the M3 could be the best speaker in the Axiom line-up with a little more refinement. Certainly, at its price point it's terrific. I had a pair of M22s and did not like them. I don't know why not, since among my favorite speakers are the Michaura M55s which use two 5.25" Axiom aluminum drivers and the Axiom 3/4" tweeter. Perhaps it's the hex shaped cabinet or the wonderful 3/4" titanium tweeter, but to my ears, the M55s outshine their big brothers, the Axiom M22s. As between the Michaura M55s and the Axiom M3Tis, although I love the M3s, I gave mine away after spending some quality time with the M55s. Maybe my M22s were defective or unsuited to the 5 wpc SET tube amp I used with them, I certainly expected more from the M22s.

I hope Axiom keeps developing its bookshelf speakers, especially the M3s. I think it would be great if Axiom picked up some Reference 3a de capo mm i's and some Dulcets, (very musical speakers) and tweak the M3s until they come close to the wonderful sound produced by the reference 3a speakers. Of course, the Dulcets are $1500 a pair and the de capos $2500, so it would be quite a coup for Axiom to upgrade the M3s to match these wonderful speakers.

Maybe an M45 would work - a large bookshelf with a 6.5" driver from the M3/M50/M60/M80, and a 5.25" midrange driver from the M2/M22/M80, in a bookshelf. Maybe such a speaker could be voiced to match the Reference 3a de capo mm i.
Posted By: Spoiler Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 07:45 PM
In reply to:

Describing the M3s as musical is "dumb"? Alan, you are an offensive, arrogant twit. I suppose your years of service as a flak qualifies you as the resident Axiom expert with a license to insult Axiom owners.



Welp, after checking this board several times a day for a few months, that's the 1st truly nasty post I've come across. Why is name-calling necessary?
Posted By: danmagicman7 Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 07:51 PM
2x6spds, please, no one is out to get anyone. I highly doubt Alan was trying to offend you. Give people the benefit of the doubt when they are saying something that they mean not to offend anyone. If there is one difference between this forum and the AVS forum, it's that there is a general aura of courtesy with the members. On AVS, people think people are accusing them, then they accuse the people back, then things are said that no one wishes they said, and so on and so forth.

Many people, including myself, can overuse the word "musical." Alan was offering his opinions about the term and saying the general conception of the word should mean something else. He was addressing everyone, the audio community, to how the term "musical" is used and how Alan personally thinks it should mean. Honestly, it sounded like the 2nd half of his post could have been included in the "Newsletters" he posts on the Axiom website. In one he talks about how speakers are defined, those couple of sentences could easily fit in that specific Newsletter.

Also, everyone has different ears, of someone thinks the M3's sound better than the M2's with a sub, or visa versa, great. That is their opinion. Everyone has different experiences.

Anyways, back to the topic. Let's not make this thread true to its name, "Bookshelf hell"

2x6spds, I also was wondering what axiom would do with an "M32" speaker, a mix of the M3 and M2 speaker, with a 5.25" and a 6.5" driver. I had a post about it somewhere a while ago, no idea where though.
Posted By: sonicfox Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 08:18 PM
"I also was wondering what axiom would do with an "M32" speaker, a mix of the M3 and M2 speaker, with a 5.25" and a 6.5" driver. I had a post about it somewhere a while ago, no idea where though."

This would look like an M60 with the bottom half cut off. So how about calling it the M30?

Posted By: danmagicman7 Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 08:33 PM
Paridigm has the Monitor 5 and the Signature S4 which has 2 7 inch drivers, a midrange and a bass, of different materials apparently.

Since I'm always going to be a candidate for bookshelf speakers because I'm always going to have my speakers on a desk for both music and movies from my computer, the tall, powerful bookshelfs appeal to me. If axiom released an "M45" "M32" or "M30" or whatever, I'd trade up my M22's straight away.

I don't know, but the S4's look really nice with those 2 drivers. They look beastly. I like them just for the look, but I know if Axiom made a speaker like it, I would get the Axiom. I think the S4's are something ridiculous like $1500 a pair, I think more.


Posted By: michael_d That reply desirves an asskicking - 04/04/06 09:12 PM
MR2X6......If you would have said that to me within arm's reach, I can asure you that you would not be walking away from the conversation. To call someone a twit is f-ing uncool.

Alan's helped me out several times. All well as many others. He didn't desirve that Bull-sh!t.
Posted By: danmagicman7 Re: That reply desirves an asskicking - 04/04/06 09:49 PM
Ahhh I hate conflicts!

Let's just continue on with the thread like nothing happened eh? Everybody happy? Don't worry be happy?

I kinda liked where it was going before all this, let's all just try to forgive and forget, it's a forum after all.
Posted By: AdamP88 Hello pot, this is kettle... - 04/04/06 10:14 PM
Classy, 2x6. Real classy.

In reply to:

I recall your description of the tube output, Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CDP as a "distortion generator," all the more interesting since you admit you never heard one.




There you go again with the word distortion. Tubes introduce their own harmonic distortion. That is a fact. It's whether or not someone likes that distortion that is up to opinion. So if you have a beef with Alan stating the truth, then quite frankly that puts you in a rather odd (and weak) position.

And if you would have read beyond "musical is kind of dumb" instead of instantly becoming far more offensive and arrogant than Alan has ever shown, you would've realized that Alan was not insulting anybody.

But good on you for your measured, reasonable response.
Posted By: aladinsan Re: That reply desirves an asskicking - 04/04/06 10:14 PM
This little group needs to get a room and work out some long seeded issues.

As for the advise, I thank you all! I think I have made my choice, but need to decide whether I should wait for the Vassallo line to be announced and pay the up charge. I am already going to pay an upcharge for the High-Gloss, if I go that way!

Since I used the word "Musical" and meant it as a term that could be understood as accurate sound, I appologize for turning this thread sideways! It should not be an issue to an "expert" as he relates to us common folk.

I am thinking M2i w/ HSU sub!
Posted By: danmagicman7 Re: That reply desirves an asskicking - 04/04/06 10:48 PM
No, I don't think it was you who turned the thread sideways using musical, lots of people use the term loosly, and many used it in the thread. That really isn't even a relevent reason why the thread got wierd, but, I don't think you had any part in this, so no worries. :-)

Anyways...


You will be happy with your M2's! Good choice. But...are you suuure you don't want M22's? :-P
Posted By: jinhan Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 11:20 PM
Feels like AVSForum... gotta love the sensless name calling.

IMO, I didn't really see Alan's statement as inflammatory or derogatory. I didn't think it warranted an derogatory post.
Posted By: HomeDad Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/04/06 11:39 PM
Wow, I feel like I stepped into the wrong board.
Posted By: aladinsan Re: That reply desirves an asskicking - 04/04/06 11:59 PM
The M22's may just be a little to tall for my proposed placement. I was not thinking of going over 15" or so....

Now I have to wait for them and make the ever hard choice of what to play first........

Again, thank you!
Posted By: bugbitten Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/05/06 12:22 AM
Back to the topic!

I got to listen to these on Saturday. What a wonderful sound. No need for a sub.

Couldn't afford one anyway. A pair of these are $10,500.

BTW. I also auditioned Lexicon and Krell amps. Can't afford those either.
Posted By: aladinsan Re: That reply desirves an asskicking - 04/05/06 01:45 AM
Russell Novak reviewed equipment for many years for Stereophile. Here is an excerpt:

"were well under control. Vocal crescendos and strings didn't go glassy, and the midbass reproduction provided a good underpinning without going too warm.

CONCLUSIONS
I don't really have criticisms. One must remember that the XXXXXXXX, XXXXXXX X.X is a small speaker and that it won't give you that bottom octave. But music is an emotional and intellectual experience, not a testicular one. You should be able to choose musicality over oomph and not pin your ego on the size of your woofer. If the XXXXXXX X.X sounds better than a larger speaker system in your room, overcome your compulsion to equate "bigger" with "better" and buy a pair. Consider the product: the sound, not the size.

I reveled in the uncolored sound these speakers produced driven by a passive preamp and transistor amp. That alone should make the XXXXXXX a big candidate for new or midprice audiophiles. At Houn' Dawg's house, a converted church, they filled the room without loss of body, proving that small speakers are not only suited to small rooms. With tubes they sounded euphonic, like tubes. They faithfully reflected all changes in associated equipment, thereby providing an open-ended path to upgrade your sound.

Till the day they were ripped from my clutches and carted away to Santa Fe, the XXXXXXX X.Xs remained a musical experience. Of the many speakers I have admired and coveted, speakers that have done special things I've thrilled to, I recommend the XXXXXXX as a natural musical experience at a modest (by today's standards) price. They got me emotional about the music again.- Russ Novak

I have removed the specific speaker reference and will tell you this is a 10 year old article. The market has obviously changed over that time, but it reflects what I am looking for in 2006! The use of the word musicality may be an issue with some, but seem very appropriate.

Thanks

Posted By: littleb Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/05/06 12:57 PM
I was expecting this to degenerate into a real dog fight. I guess cooler heads have prevailed. Darn!@&%$. I was looking forward to an old fashioned AVS style donnybruck.
Posted By: pmbuko Re: Bookshelf hell! - 04/05/06 01:08 PM
Such outbursts from 2x6 in the past have perturbed this board beyond a temporary inflammation, but we've come a long way since then.
Posted By: BruceH Re: Things that make you go hmmmmm.... - 04/05/06 05:16 PM
As a musician, I tend to equate the term "musical" with "life like" in terms of performance. If we recorded a song, I expect a "musical" speaker to reproduce the sound that was produced during the performance. The term is open to interpretation.

What I find interesting is the opinions that a bookshelf can not compete with a floor standing model. Even Doug Schneider mentioned to me that the M22 sounds much like the M60 and M80 albeit with much less output and bass. I have not had the time to compare frequency curves (likely impossible for me) but I would have to think that when Axiom designed their bookshelves, they created the accuracy of the larger floor standers with less output and bass. Is this not the case? Are the Axiom bookshelves an inferior speaker? I have a hard time believing that.

Has anyone actually performed a "double blind" listening test using M22s and an EP500 versus an M60 or M80? If the claim of the accuracy of the subwoofers is true then it should be able to handle and reproduce the low frequncies produced by the 6.5" drivers used by the floor standers (or perhaps even better) unless the EP500 is also a sub-standard speaker (no pun intended) only useful for home theater and not music.

Things that make you go hmmmm.....

Posted By: pmbuko Re: Things that make you go hmmmmm.... - 04/05/06 06:47 PM
In reply to:

Has anyone actually performed a "double blind" listening test using M22s and an EP500 versus an M60 or M80?


I have a distinct feeling that it would be far too easy to distinguish btw. the M22+EP500 and either the M60 or M80 sans sub -- unless you restricted your test material to recordings that didn't dip below the rated ranges of the towers.
Posted By: sonicfox Re: Things that make you go hmmmmm.... - 04/05/06 06:59 PM
I agree it would be easy to tell the difference. I've got both the M22's and the M60's and although they share the same tonal characteristics, there's still a difference in detail and fullness of sound. It doesn't seem like it's just an issue with bass.
Posted By: BruceH Re: Things that make you go hmmmmm.... - 04/05/06 07:33 PM
In reply to:

I have a distinct feeling that it would be far too easy to distinguish btw. the M22+EP500 and either the M60 or M80 sans sub -- unless you restricted your test material to recordings that didn't dip below the rated ranges of the towers.




Good point. That would have to be the limiting factor. That being said, most music does not fall below 27.5 Hz (low A) and rarely dips below 30Hz (low B). Specific music would have to be chose to meet that criteria but it would be an intersting test.
Posted By: BruceH Re: Things that make you go hmmmmm.... - 04/05/06 09:12 PM
In reply to:

although they share the same tonal characteristics, there's still a difference in detail and fullness of sound. It doesn't seem like it's just an issue with bass.




That is where I have the problem. To me that means that the M22s are not designed properly, and there were compromises. I often find the description of "fullness of sound" to be something in the lower frequencies. It has been stated as a trait of the M22s to have "less fullness" and for those who are looking for bookshelves only to go with the M3s which seem to stand alone quite well.

Assuming that the floor standers are portraying the intended sound properly, and by stating that there is a difference in detail, is not acceptable to the person who is looking for the "best sound" in a bookshelf due to space constraints not allowing a floor stander.

If on the other hand, this was just a user's perception based on "feelings" or pre-conceived notions biasing their opinions, I can understand. I fall pray to that all too often on many other matters. I'm a pretty emotional kind of guy . We're only human after all. If not a biased opinion, then I think it is back to the drawing board for the bookshelves. Unless I am incorrect, I thought that the bass section of the floor standers are separate chambers. Is this not the case? Do they use the same chamber for the woofers as the midrange? Perhaps this would explain a difference in sound where the woofers may be interacting with the midrange? Not to over-simplify things but a floor stander with a separate chamber for the woofers is like a satellite speaker with a passive sub.

The other issue is finding the balance between subwoofer and satellite settings/levels and whether or not their outputs have a linear response that you would get with a floor stander (assumption).

The big HOWEVER comes in the crossover frequncies. Perhaps the frequencies handled by the woofers in the floor standers extend up to the midrange where the 5.25" are not as refined. The mid range would then be allowed to function in a more limited frequency range where it performs better. Likely this is the reason for the M3 versus the M22. So the question then becomes, at what frequency must the M22 be crossed over for it to function equal to the floor stander?

I am guessing it is not at all as simple as this and likely only Ian could answer.
Posted By: alan Re: Things that make you go hmmmmm.... - 04/06/06 07:58 PM
Hi,

Actually, Peter, the M22 + EP500 vs. the M80s with or without the EP500 (I have both on an A/B switcher set up most of the time) are astonishingly close when A/B'd in my average (sort of small) living room (2200 cu. ft.). In my room, if I run the M80s full-range "Large" with the EP500, there is too much bass, so I set the 80s to "Small" crossiing over at 80 Hz. At those settings, the transition to the EP500 is seamless.

They are so close that often I forget which I'm listening to (the switcher is marked "A" and "B"), unless I get up and check the speakers.
The differences begin to emerge when I really crank up the sound to levels louder than I normally ever listen at. There is a kind of "ease" to the M80s at these levels, no sense of strain, and an upper bass "authority" that I miss with the M22s.
Then again, I never listen to the M22s and EP500 at such levels (I'm talking of 100+ dB SPL peaks at my listening area). Set to peaks 3 dB less than that, the M22s and EP500 are simply thrilling.

Just to pick an example, I'd put them up against the ludicrously overpriced Wilson Watt Puppies and a sub anytime in a blind test administered by a disinterested third party and I'd be highly interested in the outcome. . .
Posted By: Gena Re: Things that make you go hmmmmm.... - 04/06/06 09:55 PM
M22 and EP 500 is somewhat an unusual combination. ER500 is $1,200 and M22 is $400, $1600 together. It's $300 more expensive than a pair of M80s and almost twice as expensive as a couple of $M60s. So, why to pay more for something that sounds just the same?

A more realistic, 'bookshelf' and less expensive approach would be a couple of M22 paired with a good but not overly expensive sub, like Onix x-sub - $200. Altogether it's $600.

Now, the question is would that combination sound the same as a couple of M80 or M60? At not overly high SPL of course.
Posted By: Spoiler Re: Things that make you go hmmmmm.... - 04/07/06 01:13 AM
I was measuring the level at which I sometimes reach listening to certain well engineered tracks... and they easily approach and surpass 100db (RS analog meter, A weighted, slow), and with my equipment (see sig), it is extremely clean and powerful, with the EP500 supporting on the ultra- low end. I havent heard the M22 / EP500 combo, but if you ever intend to really crank it and expect clean, effortless reproduction... consider an M60 / M80. My room is 12 X 15, with the left side open in the listening postion. I'd consider the room mostly reflective.
Posted By: 2x6spds Re: Things that make you go hmmmmm.... - 04/07/06 01:27 AM
One of the reviews which got me to make the jump and buy Axiom speakers without ever having heard them, was in "Enjoy the Music" which reviewed the fabulous Axiom M3Ti (then $275 a pair) with a $1400 Klipsch LF-10 subwoofer. A quick, musical sub which blends well with a good bookshelf gets you what amounts to a full range speaker with all the virtues of a bookshelf - great soundstage and imaging.

Here's the review from 2002:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0402/axiommillennia.htm

Of course, the Enjoy the Music reviewer, Colin Flood, has to be forgiven for praising the match up of the Axiom M3Tis and Antique Sound Labs tube amps, poor guy doesn't realize that tube amps are just distortion generators.
Posted By: pmbuko Re: Things that make you go hmmmmm.... - 04/07/06 02:31 AM
Denial is a scary thing to behold. Let me try to state this as clearly as I can. I'll even put it on a separate line.

The reason tube amps sound different from solid state amps is due almost entirely to harmonic distortion. To deny this is to reveal your ignorance on the subject.

There are plenty of things you can read to educate yourself on the subject, but this wikipedia article is a good place to start.
Posted By: 2x6spds Re: Things that make you go hmmmmm.... - 04/07/06 04:16 AM
Anyway, some years later, I picked up an Antique Sound Labs MG S1 15DT integrated SET amp, and stumbled on a Klipsch LF10 subwoofer from ubid back when there were great buys to be had there, and of course hooked up my Axiom M3Tis. I unpacked an Ah! Njoe Tjoeb tube output CD Player (with upsampler) and I had to agree with Colin Flood, the M3s blended perfectly with the LF-10. That combination was one of the best, most musical systems I've ever heard.
Posted By: F107plus5 Re: Things that make you go hmmmmm.... - 04/08/06 04:04 PM
I'd like to add another "Hurrah" to the M3 Appreciation Thread!!

HURRAH!! Great little speakers!!

My final goal is to put my M3s in a second, more intimate, listening room;.....With Tubes!!

And religate my M50s to strictly Home Theater usage where they do a reasonably credible job in my acoustically challenged Main listening room.

M3TiSEs are indeed audio gems!
Posted By: BruceH Re: Things that make you go hmmmmm.... - 04/17/06 07:21 PM
In reply to:


M22 and EP 500 is somewhat an unusual combination. ER500 is $1,200 and M22 is $400, $1600 together. It's $300 more expensive than a pair of M80s and almost twice as expensive as a couple of $M60s. So, why to pay more for something that sounds just the same?




I don't think the M80's can reproduce low frequencies alone with the same authority as the EP500 paired with the M22s. That is a good reason why. I suspect the extra tweeter on the M80s is what gives the extra edge during high SPL use of the M80s over M22s. Tweeters typically can not handle the same power as mids and woofers.

For large SPL applications there is no doubt that the M80's with dual tweeters would be the way to go. The extra tweeter would provide that "effortlessness". For those that don't like having a big box in the room and don't need high SPL, the M60's would be ideal. If you can not have a floor stander but can hide a sub somewhere, the M22 with an EP350 or EP500 would be best. If you can't have a sub or floorstanders, the M3. If you have even less space then the M2 or start looking at the Architectural series. There is a speaker setup for all applications.
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