Trade Up or Not?

Posted by: h317

Trade Up or Not? - 03/10/08 12:17 PM

Yes, I should have purchased the M80 2 months ago instead of the M22s ... but here I am exploring the possibility of trading up to a pair of M80s.

A few questions:
1. I have read somewhere in the forum that Axiom does not recommend matching Yamaha with M80. Should I be concerned? I mean, Yamaha does not offer the same trade-up program as that from Axiom \:\(
2. I currently have a VP100, should I care for a VP150 for the M80s?
3. How about the sub? I have a <2,500 cu ft. room and a EP350v3. Is it good enough for the time being. Do I need another EP350v3?
4. What would be your trade-up priorities if you were me with a $ constraint? Fronts then center then sub?

Sorry for the long list of unknowns. Appreciate your helps.
Posted by: terzaghi

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/10/08 01:12 PM

Being that you only ordered the m22's two months ago... I would call axiom and ask them if there is anyway you can pay for shipping and return them even though you are outside of the 30 day trial period. If you tell them you will place an order for the m80's at the same time they might cut you some slack...

worth a shot at least

Dopn't know about your receiver and the m80's though.

What yamaha do you have?
Posted by: h317

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/10/08 01:33 PM

I tried the Axiom tradeup webpage. I am entitled to a $442 trade-in value (vs $461 that I paid) for the M22s and $239 trade-in value vs $250 I paid. So, all in all, it's not a make or break factor. Of course, by trigger-pulling time, I will definetly ask.

I may lose the value of the FMS16 stands that I paid for though \:\(

 Originally Posted By: terzaghi

What yamaha do you have?

RVX3800
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/10/08 04:17 PM

I know there have been a few using that receiver with good results with the M80's. The EP350 is as good as any sub Axiom has, no worries there, here is a thread where myself and a couple of other forum members did a comparison.

You could always go for the M60s which have a very similar sound to the M22 but not quite as articulate at lower volumes, IMO.
Posted by: h317

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/10/08 10:54 PM

 Originally Posted By: jakewash
I know there have been a few using that receiver with good results with the M80's.


Thanks, Jason. I have also read your review and am happy to know that the EP350 kicks ass. I most likely will order the M80s and VP150. If my receiver can't handle the M80s, I can always exchange for the M60s.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/10/08 11:06 PM

The 3800 has very substantial power into 4 ohms and should be able to drive M80s to levels which are more than needed for most applications.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/10/08 11:12 PM

 Originally Posted By: JohnK
The 3800 has very substantial power into 4 ohms and should be able to drive M80s to levels which are more than needed for most applications.

Perhaps John, but is it shiny?
\:D
Posted by: h317

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/11/08 04:06 PM

Pulled the trigger and ordered M80s and VP150. Purolator picked the speakers up from Axiom already so should receive them tomorrow afternoon the latest.

Not that I don't trust the assurances from you guys but what should I be trying/looking for within this 30-day period to see if the 3800 can drive the M80s? If there is a problem, I would like to find it out sooner than later. Thanks.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/11/08 04:18 PM

If the receiver gets very hot to the touch that is a sign to be cautious. Or, if you crank things up and the receiver shuts down at louder levels, that is a sign it went into protection mode because it can't drive 4 ohm speakers at those levels without over heating.
Posted by: h317

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/11/08 04:33 PM

 Originally Posted By: sirquack
Or, if you crank things up and the receiver shuts down at louder levels


Pardon my ignorance. How loud in db on a SPL is loud enough to test that?
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/11/08 04:40 PM

Can't really give you an answer on how loud that would be in dB's as ever room is different in size, speaker placement is different, receivers are different, listening habits are different. Also, some music has larger dynamic peaks that can jump 15-20dB's and put the receiver into clipping.

It really has more to do with the Yamaha circuitry and protection limiter. You will not hurt the Yammy or Axiom speakers. Just know that if it shuts down all the time it is either not compatible, or you have the speakers wire strands touching. Most likely you will be fine.
Posted by: HAY

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/11/08 09:28 PM

 Quote:

What yamaha do you have?
RVX3800


I'm not sure about your model, but you may want to check into the fan settings. For my yammy, there's an option to have the fan constantly on instead of it waiting for it to heat up and engage...


By the way, I think you mean RX-V3800 ;\)
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/11/08 10:24 PM

The level would depend on how loud of an average level that you use and how wide the dynamic level of the material being played is. Typically, a loud average level which wouldn't cause permanent hearing damage would be 80-85dB, which would use 1 watt or less with the M80s. Allowing for some classical and other material which has a very wide dynamic range, 20dB above the average level, i.e., 100-105dB, might occasionally be hit briefly, but would require less than 100 watts, even for the peak.
Posted by: h317

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/11/08 10:54 PM

Apparently, I can set the speaker impedance under the Yamaha's advance setup menu. Excerpt from the manual:

■ Speaker impedance SPEAKER IMP.
Use this feature to set the speaker impedance of this unit
so that it matches that of your speakers.
Choices: 8ΩMIN, 6ΩMIN
• Select “8ΩMIN” to set the speaker impedance to 8 Ω .
• Select “6ΩMIN” to set the speaker impedance to 6 Ω

Speaker Imp........Speaker.......Impedance Level
8ΩMIN................Front..........The impedance of each speaker must be 8Ω or higher.
8ΩMIN................Centre........The impedance of each speaker must be 8Ω or higher.
8ΩMIN................Surround......The impedance of each speaker must be 8Ω or higher.
6ΩMIN................Front..........The impedance of each speaker must be 4Ω or higher.
6ΩMIN................Centre........The impedance of each speaker must be 6Ω or higher.
6ΩMIN................Surround......The impedance of each speaker must be 6Ω or higher.

So does that mean the receiver is capable of driving a 4Ω front speaker like M80?
Posted by: Mojo

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/11/08 11:07 PM

You won't really know until you blow it up...erhhh...I mean try it \:\) .

Set it to 8 Ohms and unless you're like Wid \:\) , you should be able to live with the power from that receiver. It's a $1700 receiver capable of delivering 140 clean Watts so I really don't see a problem.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/11/08 11:11 PM

The 3800 can certainly drive 4ohm speakers, including the M80s, to a very high sound level, but that suggested setting in the manual should never be used. All that a lower impedance switch or menu setting does is to reduce the maximum voltage that the receiver can supply, and following Ohm's Law, when the maximum voltage is reduced so is the maximum current and power capability of the unit. This is a safety related feature required by UL overheating testing, but can cut the maximum power capability roughly in half. Disregard the suggestion in the manual.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/11/08 11:48 PM

Yep, just leave it on 8ohm and rock and roll. \:\)
Posted by: Wid

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/12/08 09:16 AM


Get a separate amp then there is no worries.
Posted by: h317

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/12/08 09:17 AM

Thanks to all of you for helping out this newbie. I will leave the settings alone and go from there.

Mojo, now I am interested to find out what's up with Wid \:\)

Just checked the Purolator website, the speakers are on their way to my home
Posted by: h317

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/12/08 10:11 AM

FYI ...

When I asked Axiom about the impedance issue, they said RXV3800 was not one of the models that they had tested and suggested me to ask Yamaha.

I emailed Yamaha and got this response from Paul of Yamaha:
 Quote:
We usually recommend speakers with an impedance of 6-8ohms. The RX-V3800 is capable of driving 4 ohm speakers for the front two channels but we find the best results are with speakers of 6-8ohms.

Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/12/08 10:53 AM

What a bizarre response (or not, depending how you look at it). It's going to either work just fine (and sound great), or it's going to shut down (after sounding great). It's not going to sound crummy with 4 ohm speakers or sound great, it's going to sound great and work just fine or shut down.
Posted by: Mojo

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/12/08 10:56 AM

That's what Paul has been taught to say. You'll be fine.

Wid believes that a minimum of a gigaWatt is required per speaker for acceptable sound reproduction. A terraWatt is even better \:\) .

Me, I listen to a half watt.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Trade Up or Not? - 03/13/08 12:49 PM

I type at more than half a watt.

snicker.....

Sorry, I'm overtired from hotel room induced lack of sleep.