So, I finally have my speakers hooked up and calibrated. My setup is as follows.

VP-150, M22's fronts, QS8's sides, QS4's rears, 12" Klipsch sub, Pioneer Elite 94txh, PS3...

The first thing I listened to was Cold. If you're not familiar with them, they are best described as soft metal. The first thing I noticed were the vocals, very open and 'in your room' clear. But I noticed also that as soon as some heavier guitar came in the M22's 'wussed out.' They suddenly sounded recessed and flat. I messed around with some stuff (processing modes, x-over frequencies, even receiver calibrated speaker sizes) but I couldn't help it. I played several cd's and all suffered the same problem.

I, not to beat the 22's too much, noticed that at higher volumes the tweeter sounded very harsh and the speakers sounded generally distorted. I knew what I was compromising when I chose smaller speakers but the volume was hardly what I would consider 'too much.' The speakers perform fantastic on movies, the QS surrounds especially sound really great with an enveloping sound, but I expected as much. Two channel music is what I was worried about.

My questions, are do the speakers open up with time? I have 10 hours on them now, will they get better from here? I suspect these are speakers less suited to heavier music, but damn, I don't want to send them back after waiting so long. The things that are great about them truly are amazing, vocals are just incredible. But the inability to sound dynamic during the heavier parts and the strained sound at higher volumes are intolerable for me. I know speakers this small can sound 'big' (sonus faber), so would it be better to just accept these speakers aren't my cup'o'tea?

Anyone else feel/felt/know/understand my dilemma?

max

You need to assume that "break-in" is completed during the ten hours that you listened to the speakers. I am somewhat surprised that the M22s sounded distorted at higher volumes with your Pioneer (7x140W) despite their small size. I suspect that you will prefer the M60s or the M80s' performance at the higher volumes. Don't "just accept" what you are hearing, you should have tears in your eyes (from joy) with your Axioms.

John

The only "break in" is your brain getting used to the new speakers.

I can't comment on the 22's as I've never owned them, however, many on this website do and I'm sure will chime in...

Do you have your speakers set to small in the receiver with an 80hz crossover setting? Do you have all the EQ crap turned off? Have you calibrated the delay (distance), dB levels for each speaker from the listening position to the same SPL levels?
Do you have the speaker wires hooked up correctly with the righ +- polarity?

Just keep in mind that music that is not engineered to the highest standards will show their flaws, this is a problem with the CD not the Axioms. I would suggest playing other music from various CD's to see if you get the same results.

I concur with SirQ about sound quality off of certain CDs. Check out some Tool CDs, they're pretty well mastered (if intentionally distorted), possibly the gold remaster of Master of Puppets (although it's be aeons since I've heard it on Axioms, so don't take that as gospel), any Opeth, later U2 albums, later Sting albums other than the latest couple, or Buena Vista Social Club. If you've got Raphael y Gabriela (I think that's it), definitely check out that disc.

I will browse my musical library some more, and see if there are any differences? It seems as though 'break-in' time is more or less considered a faux science here? I was under the impression it was somewhat substantiated? That makes me a little bit sad, I was really hoping they were going to get better as I've read a few professional reviews citing the '30 hour mark' as the point when these speakers 'open up.'

I have done all of the above, (delay, x-over, dB levels, etc) however, the receiver set the 22's as LARGE which is weird...I thought it was just a silly mistake so I switched it over to small and they instantly sounded smaller, more confined, and even dare I say.......tinny?? Weird as hell.....anyways...I'll probably make my final decision in 48hrs from now, and if I end up sending them back I may look else where b/c the m80's are about....my entire budget...

max3

Does that receiver have automatic equalizers? If so, turn those off. Leave it set to small. Break in is bogus--the designer of the speakers has said that break in occurs within the first few seconds of playing, and that happens at the factory when they test them.

When you say higher volumes, do you have the decibel levels?

Are you describing sound of the speakers alone or blended with the subwoofer? By setting them "small" you're cutting out low frequencies, so your description makes sense; but not if they're blended with the sub.

Max, I've owned my M22s a little over six years now and I'm still delighted with their performance even on the most dynamic classical recordings that I have. No, there's no break-in involved, or if there is it must take more than six years, since they sound the same now as when I first fired them up(with The Planets). So, I'm puzzled by what you report. All speakers distort audibly at extremely high sound levels, but I've had no problems in this area either with the M22s or the receivers which I've used.

Tower speakers such as the M60 and M80 are able to play at somewhat louder levels before distortion becomes bothersome, but these are levels that I don't attempt, out of consideration for my hearing. You've said that the level that you're using isn't what you "consider too much", but the question would be what the level in fact is, as measured by an SPL meter. When I listen "loud", the average level is about 80-85dB, and more typically I'd use about 10dB lower than that. Even at the louder level my experience has been that the M22s handle even the peaks that some highly dynamic classical compositions contain very well. I'm not familiar with "Cold", but I doubt that it's any "heavier" than some of the stuff that I listen to.

I listened to the M22s with a sub at fairly loud levels at Axiom and the never got harsh. I would look for some material that you can verify is a little better recorded.

Darned shame you can't step up to the M60s They sound really good.

Well said, Fred.

I ended up starting with the M60s and after receiving them (and originally wanting the M80s) I never looked back. I listen to a lot of heavy metal, ska, punk, surf rock, and other "oldies" and I have never been disatisfied with them or thought that I needed to go more and get the M80s. Also I have a lot of crappily recorded rare punk, ska, and 60's folk music that I am sure the M22s and M80s would have brutalized with their "honesty" =)

I have not heard the M22s or M80s so I can not give you a comparison but my M60s do not shrink away from the heavier parts in songs or movies.

I do know that on an old Coal Chamber cd I have it was mixed that way, it sounds horrible. You would think everything would just open up and rock on parts but it feels like they intentionally silenced the loud parts. It took me awhile to figure out that it wasn't how I had the reciever set up, it was just the crappy cd.

And like most everyone else here, I never had a point where I felt like they broke in. It was a big change going from my old Cerwin Vegas that disorted fairly quickly to my M60s that I can not even phase. That took me awhile to adjust to and to realize that the distortion really colored the music and what I thought sounded hard and powerful was just crappy easily disorted speakers adding their own bit of flavor to the songs.

Dan

I am really starting to warm up to these speakers, I rocked out to some Dethklok today and they really seemed to shine. I am starting to see that my older towers were pumping alot of extra noise into songs and basically ignoring other sounds. Vocals being one. I think upon a bit more listening, I will start to love them. I didn't notice any distortion today so maybe it was the recordings afterall. I 'll listen to a little pantera and see what I think, updates to come. And also, small w/sub sounds worse than setting large with sub, weird eh?

Max, I think the break-in has happened...only thing is, the break-in is your ears not the speaker.

When we have speakers we're used to and you switch to an accurate speaker like Axiom you need to get used to the new sounnd. I also had this when I switched to M60's. I initially felt the bass was lacking until sitting and listening to lots of music and realizing that I had very nice bass and excellent mid-bass....I was just used to sloppy boomy bass, not anymore though.

Enjoy the 22's.

Max, I usually ran my M22s as large, so you are not alone, I just felt they sounded better to me. It could also be your sub isn't up to the challenge to fill in the room with good clean bass as I also fell into that category. I had an old sub that wasn't upto the challenge and I can now say the M22s with the PB13-Ultra(or any of the quality subs I have heard them with) sound pretty nice, just not as good as the M80s with the PB13

I have moved my couch back, now sitting roughly 6 1/2 feet from the speakers. I also have the 22's facing me (toed in) and I think it sounds quite a bit better. I do agree that my sub is definetly not up to the challenge, I am really excited to mate them with my upcomming purchase (SVS PC-Ultra). I can't decide what height to have my 22's and vp150 sit. Does anyone have any advice on this? Right now I have my 22's on my old speakers (which are on their sides) sitting 11.5 inches up. The tweeters are just below my ears on the couch. The vp150 is on my qs8 box (I know...so ghetto...) which is about 12 inches. I also have the vp150 tilted slightly up (using 2 decks of cards to angle it up) and I can't get a good mixture. When I am watching a movie using ANY processing mode the Pioneers' full band phase control does a really great job of cleaning up the audio and separating the sounds into their respective channels. But the vp150 is PAINFULLY bright with these settings, althought everything else is better sounding. With all processing off (pure direct mode) the overall sound is softer, with all sounds being less concise but not really in a bad way, I kind of prefer it on some soundtracks. However, with this setting the vp150 is muffled and hard to hear, especially the dialog during more action packed scenes. I know that the vp150 in particular is sensitive to placement, so how can I fix this? Also, I cannot for the life of me get my sub to play when in pure direct mode, regardless of the speaker size setting, the subwoofer setting/level/cross-over/phase. It's the damndest thing, it works in all other modes except pure direct. Anyways...any ideas on this stuff? Thanks in advance, you guys have been very helpful.

max

BTW, JAKE- When you had the 22's and PB13 did you still find that the 'large' setting sounded better, or at that point was 'small' a better choice?

Looks familiar to me, exactly how I did my initial setup!

Jason

I don't think you mentioned the source for the music. Is it possible that some of the compression and/or distortion you are noticing comes from the format, DAC, player, etc?

Upgrading the sub could make a meaningful difference in how you perceive the M22's, especially at high volumes.

I still found it a little warmer but really not much difference. I could have left them as small and still felt like it sounded warmer.

I have always felt the VP150 worked better when it was mounted above my TV.

Doesn't Pure Direct shut everything off except the Left and Right Front? That's the way mine works...

I suppose it does shut everything down, but it has, in the past, with my towers kept the subwoofer on. Odd....Anyways. I highly doubt any distortion is from my Pioneer Elite 94Txh, PS3, etc. It definetly has to do with the recording and the minute impurities or unbalanced tonality that is exponentially increased when the vloume is increased. I tried many, many different recordings today and they are definetly the culprits. The great recordings are magnificent while the mediocre ones are hardly listenable at high volumes. Thanks for all the help everyone, I will let this thread die peacefully

You have now learned the problem with having such good speakers. It is a good problem to have in my books

Max - I have all my speakers set to large on the B&K. It sounds much better that way to me. I have an older B&K AVR307 with smaller Paradigm speakers (Ref 40s) in my living room and I have that set to large also. The "small" setting seems too ear piercing to me. Whatever sounds best to you is how you should set it.