Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T.

Posted by: mecon

Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/18/08 07:30 PM

Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T.

Which one should I get.

Advantages of the Axiom M60 are:
  1. Lower Bass Extention
  2. Flatter Responce Curve.


Advantages of the Aperion 5T are:
  1. Real Wood Finish (I Really don't care about this)
  2. Better Trade Up Program

Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/18/08 07:38 PM

If you can't trade up to something better than an M60, why does #2 matter?
Posted by: fredk

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/18/08 08:30 PM

Read what you posted and the answer is simple.

1. Looks (real wood) are not important
2. The M60s, because of the better bass extension and flatter frequency response, will sound better.

I will bet that the off axis response for the M60 is better as well.

you can always try auditioning both.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/18/08 09:41 PM

Axiom does have a trade in program as well and if the real wood doesn't matter, then the flatter curve and lower extension should win out, IMO.

But as Fred said, I would try to audition both to determine which one YOU like. Have you checked the Hearing things Forum for a possible owner nearby that you could audition a set of Axioms or Aperions site for an owner there?
Posted by: mecon

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/18/08 10:32 PM

I was also thinking about the Outlaw Bookshelves with LFM-2 Subwoofer how would that compare.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/18/08 10:49 PM

Bookshelves are a whole different category than floor standers.

What is your intended use and space?
Posted by: armaraas

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/18/08 11:13 PM

Well, a couple of questions (maybe this was answered somewhere else)-
What are your intentions with these speakers- stereo music, movies, both?
Will you be adding a sub at all?

The best advice is of course listen to the speakers yourself to determine what you like.

For example, I have had a set of Aperion 6T's and Axiom M80's in the house now for over 2 weeks. Aperion pays return shipping if you don't keep them, and Axiom pays for shipping to you, but you'll have to pay to return them. For the M80's it will be $70-80, I would expect the M60's would be a bit cheaper. If you can handle that extra cash/risk, then that is the best way to do it. You get to listen to them on your equipment, in your room. I can't tell you how much easier that has made it for me.

In my case, I've been eyeing Axiom's for years, probably 3 or 4, and I finally just got to the point where I could finally upgrade (well, not really, but I'm pretending I'm loaded for now). My goal was to get at least 3 sets of towers in house to audition, but it did't work out and I ended up with only 2.

Well, I'll probably get booed out of here now, but I am sending the M80's back. It is actually a tough decision, and I'm kind of sad about it, but I know I would feel the same sending the 6T's back as well. One day I sat down with my wife, and I did a blind listening test with her for a couple of hours to see what she thought, I used both new sets plus my old set of Cambridge Soundworks Tower II's. In most cases she picked out the 6T's as preferred, and my Cambridge once. When I told her what speakers were which, she was surprised- she thought the ones she kept picking were the M80's. This was done with stereo music, but here's a quick run down of what I found:

6T's- the wood finish is nicer looking than the veneer on the M80
s, that matters a bit to us. We found the 6T's preferable when it came to female voices (though the M80's were not lacking, the Cambridges were). The 6T's were a little bit better for imaging, and had a wider soundstage for us. I had the Cambridge speakers on the inside, the 6T's were in the middle, and the M80's on the outside. I think that speaks well for the 6T's soundstage in that my wife thought the music was coming from the M80's.

M80's- look nice, they do go noticably deeper than the 6T's, not a ton, but enough to notice. The M80's love power, and seemed to hold their composure better at higher volumes than the 6T's did (I do not listen that loud for more than a minute or two at a time nowadays, so that isn't important to me). They're imaging and soundstage were solid, just not quite up to the 6T's.

I've rambled, but I would think some of what we found in our listening tests would probably hold true for the next level down, 5T's and M60's. In my opinion, there isn't a bad choice here between these two brands.

Again, your opinion or experience may be completely different than mine. But in my experience, if looks do not matter, and you need bass because of no sub, or it's strictly for home theater and not so much music, then I would say the M60's would be a good fit. If getting lower bass isn't a big deal, and it's for a lot of 2 channel music, then the Aperion's will work. But if you can, listen to both to decide.

Also, for the record, I am going M2's and QS8's for my surrounds...oh and the Aperions center speaker fits my space a bit better, another reason why I went with them.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/18/08 11:37 PM

Nice post, armaraas. I don't think we're gonna burn you at the stake for sending the M80s back. You and your wife did the right thing--sat down with all of speakers and figured out which one you like best.

Yes, we do like it when people choose Axiom, but this hobby is also about enjoying the music and finding the right fit in speakers that gets you the sound you like.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/18/08 11:40 PM

Arm, how did you do your blind test, just with a speaker selector? You have to recalibrate each speaker each time you swap to something out. Also, did you have the speakers side by side, or did you remove the speakers/replace each time, you can't just set them side by side.

My guess is you didn't perform a true Blind Test as done by labs or speaker manufacturers.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/18/08 11:43 PM

Nice post armaraas, I would have tried moving the Axioms to the inside and the Aperions to the outside just to see if it was a placement issue but either way you ended up with a set of speakers that you like which is the most important thing.

I think we need to see this aperxiom HT, post some pics please.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/19/08 12:00 AM

Nice to hear from someone who had compared the two. Perhaps my impression of the Aperions was unfair.

The bottom line is to compare (or at least listen to) both speakers if at all possible.
Posted by: armaraas

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/19/08 12:16 AM

True, I did not do a "true" blind test per any lab or speaker manufacturers specifications. I'm just an average joe who decided to try to compare a couple of different brands of speakers in my own home and on my lowly equipment without an eq.

I had moved the speakers around the first week I had them, but I did not move them when I had my wife listen to them, I'm not sure she would have been patient enough for that. We basically played a song, got a db rating with the meter, after a few minutes stopped the song, switched to a different speaker, restarted the song and adjusted with the spl meter to match the previous level. I'm not sure what else there would be to calibrate, no sub was used, just the towers.

My surrounds will be here Friday, once I get them up I'll see what I can do about pictures. I also gotten an AV123 MWF-15 recently. A little bit of everything from a bunch of different ID brands. Now, I just need an Outlaw amp...
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/19/08 12:36 PM

Your thoughts of the MFW-15? Have you heard any other subs to compare it to?
Posted by: skubic

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/19/08 01:26 PM

My initial experience with the Axiom forum was to ask a similar question...Axiom or Aperion. At the time, I was considering the M80's and 6T's. The overwhelming consensus was to perform the in home audition on both, but in the end my laziness won out and I went with M80's as they appeared to be more speaker for the money, real wood was not an issue for me, and the flatter frequency response. Another major consideration was the concern that my wife would make me send back both sets and then I'd really be SOL. Anyway, I have to tell you I haven't regretted my Axiom purchase in the least.
Posted by: armaraas

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/19/08 04:14 PM

I would be surprised if anyone did order Axiom's and was disappointed with them. Heck, if I had just ordered the M80's alone, I would have no qualms with keeping them and would be quite happy with them. Neither the M80's or 6T's had any weaknesses I could really fault them for, they just play to slightly different strengths which is up to the listener to decide what they prefer.

As for the MWF-15, unfortunately I do not have a very good comparison for it, this is my first foray into subs of this price/performance. My old sub is a dual 8" Yamaha which did well enough to bring neighbors over to ask me to turn it down with music (single family homes with 20' in between), but didn't really have much of a 'wow' effect with movies.

Out of the box the MWF had a hum when I connected it up (the old sub was not grounded). MLS was kind enough to help me troubleshoot it, and we determined it wasn't the cable connection, and when I told him I could hear devices being turned off and on through the sub we guessed it was poor electrical wiring in the house. He was going to send me an audio filter for it, but a few days later I realized the hum was actually caused by an svideo connection from receiver to the tv for the OSD menu. So now I just leave that disconnected when not needed. However I still hear things being turned off and on in the room through the sub, not a big deal as I can control the order of how things are turned on. The biggest thing is I hear a 'pop' from the sub whenever the mini fridge's condenser kicks off in the room. I probably have a bit too much in this room...

As far as performance, I've been really happy with how well it blends in with the towers for music. My old sub could get kind of muddy, this one seems much cleaner. I haven't done a lot with movies yet, waiting for this weekend when I get the surrounds...
But I did watch Darla tapping on the glass in Finding Nemo, over, and over, and over...

That was a new experience for me. The MWF did have a little extra noise during that scene, but the older sub just sounded weak and plain horrible in comparison. From what I've gotten from other people is that that scene is pretty tough even on good subs. I also watched most of War of the Worlds, and that was pretty cool too. My couch is a foot and a half off the back wall, the sub is next to the couch firing into that space, so it's kind of fun to 'feel' it. I've only got about 2 spots, maybe 3 if I rearrange the room, the sub can go, and that's my preferred spot so it's there for now. I haven't gotten around to figuring out frequency responses yet and measuring them. I plan to watch a few of the LotR movies this weekend. Again, I don't normally listen at insane levels, around 100db is good enough for me (I've seen some people pushing these to 110 or higher).

I have noticed that when I turn it up loud enough, my ear facing the direction of the sub needs to be popped once in a while. I was wondering if that means I need to get a second one for the other side of the room to even it out...

Sorry for rambling...and threadjacking...
Posted by: mecon

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/19/08 08:15 PM

Thanks for the help I'm waiting till October to begin the auditions.
Posted by: mecon

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/19/08 08:18 PM

armaraas, are you in Chicagoland.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/19/08 08:59 PM

 Originally Posted By: armaraas
I plan to watch a few of the LotR movies this weekend. Again, I don't normally listen at insane levels, around 100db is good enough for me (I've seen some people pushing these to 110 or higher).

I noticed with the PB13-Ultra I can now feel Sauron's finger hit the ground at every location in my room and that is with the volume at normal levels about 75-80db.

 Quote:
I have noticed that when I turn it up loud enough, my ear facing the direction of the sub needs to be popped once in a while. I was wondering if that means I need to get a second one for the other side of the room to even it out...


Most definitely
Posted by: anthony11

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/19/08 10:15 PM

 Originally Posted By: jakewash
Nice post armaraas, I would have tried moving the Axioms to the inside and the Aperions to the outside just to see if it was a placement issue

Better yet, instead of setting them up concentrically, set each pair up the same distance part, ie., on each side, speaker A on the left, B in the middle, and C on the right. Then you'd just have to rotate yerself slightly to compare, and they'd all have the same separation without wrangling between trials.
Posted by: armaraas

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/19/08 10:16 PM

 Originally Posted By: mecon
armaraas, are you in Chicagoland.


Sorry, no, I live in western Wisconsin, just outside the Minneapolis/St Paul area of Minnesota.
Posted by: mecon

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 06/23/08 04:17 PM

That's not too bad, if i go to the dells this summer i might check it out.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Axiom M60's vs Aperion 5T. - 01/25/09 08:58 AM

Stumbled across this thread from a link at another forum. Interesting read.