Advice on receiver

Posted by: Graeme L

Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 05:38 PM

Hello everyone,

I will be buying a new receiver in the new year and would like to know which brand and what features.

I currently have a Yamaha RX 661. I will have approx $5000 to spend on it.

The other components I have are, Samsung series 6 52 LCD HDMI, Samsung BD-P1500 Blue Ray HDMI, Pioneer DV-400VS dvd player HDMI, Foxtel ICQ2 HDMI.

Speakers are currently Dali MKII mains, VP150, QS8's and the sub will be EP500. I will be replacing the Dali's with M80's later on.

I want to future proof as much as possible, I won't have this amount of money again for quite a long time. This upgrade has been a few years in the making and I want to make sure I do it right.

Any advice you guys can give would be very much appreciated \:\)
Posted by: SRoode

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 05:47 PM

My mouth is watering! Lucky You!!!!

Boy, $5k gets you in the McIntosh range!!! I wouldn't know where to begin with recommendations, but for an amp I'd be REALLY happy with something like this:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7900.html

Leaving you $1500 for a quality pre-amp.
Posted by: Graeme L

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 05:51 PM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
My mouth is watering! Lucky You!!!!

Boy, $5k gets you in the McIntosh range!!! I wouldn't know where to begin with recommendations, but for an amp I'd be REALLY happy with something like this:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7900.html

Leaving you $1500 for a quality pre-amp.



But remember I am in Australia, 5 grand here is not worth a lot overseas.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 05:51 PM

PS - As far as future proofing goes, it's hard to do in the tech world, but with new receivers being able to have their firmware updated, it certainly helps. The great thing about McIntosh (besides their quality) is that they hold resale value. You could easily sell it for more than half of what you paid for it in 10 years.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 05:52 PM

Are we talking US dollars or Australian dollars? 5000 Australian dollars is still over 3200 US dollars.
Posted by: Graeme L

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 05:55 PM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
Are we talking US dollars or Australian dollars? 5000 Australian dollars is still over 3200 US dollars.


$5000 Australian dollars
Posted by: CV

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 06:03 PM

If I was going for a receiver and not separates, I'd go for one of the Denons or the Sherwood Newcastle R-972, depending on how it's reviewed after release.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 06:06 PM


I would upgrade the speakers first. Nothing makes as big a difference in a system as speakers do.
Posted by: DaveG

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 06:30 PM

I agree with wid upgrade the speakers first.
Posted by: Graeme L

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 07:29 PM

 Originally Posted By: wid

I would upgrade the speakers first. Nothing makes as big a difference in a system as speakers do.


But would the 661 run the M80's? From what I have been reading here they need a pretty hefty amp to run them, or am I assuming the wrong thing again?
Posted by: SatKartr

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 07:37 PM

It might run them, at least I was able to run two M80s (not 7.0) with a similar model, the 663, but you probably wouldn't be able to crank them up to exciting volumes, if that matters to you.
Posted by: Graeme L

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 08:44 PM

That Sherwood Newcastle R-972 sounds interesting.
Posted by: Graeme L

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 08:45 PM

 Originally Posted By: SatKartr
It might run them, at least I was able to run two M80s (not 7.0) with a similar model, the 663, but you probably wouldn't be able to crank them up to exciting volumes, if that matters to you.


I like my movies and music loud.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 08:48 PM


What do you have down there as far as receivers go that you could get with left over money from a M80 purchase.

Does the 661 have pre outs?
Posted by: Graeme L

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 10:12 PM

According the specs it says pre out for all channels.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 10:16 PM


If so and you find the 661 not up to par to run the M80s simply add a 2 channel amp for the fronts.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 10:19 PM

Yeah, Graeme; wrong assumption again. The 661 should power M80s to very high levels, since the M80s are slightly higher than average in sensitivity and require less power than many smaller speakers. Whether it would be adequate for the sound levels and dynamic range of the material that you play can only be determined by trying, not assuming.

As to a new receiver, however, the $3200 U.S. that you're willing to spend strikes me as being too high, and I'd think that about half of that would do the job. I'd mention for consideration the Onkyo 876, Denon 3808(with Dynamic EQ upgrade)and possibly the Sherwood Newcastle 972, if it ever does come out(now delayed yet again to end of January)and if the Trinnov implementation meets expectations.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 11:24 PM

I vote for the speaker upgrade first as well, then you can assess how much more of an amp you need and just use the 661 as the pre.
Posted by: SatKartr

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/06/08 11:28 PM

 Originally Posted By: Graeme L
 Originally Posted By: SatKartr
It might run them, at least I was able to run two M80s (not 7.0) with a similar model, the 663, but you probably wouldn't be able to crank them up to exciting volumes, if that matters to you.


I like my movies and music loud.


I misspoke, it also depends on room size as to whether the 661 would provide enough volume.
Posted by: Graeme L

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/07/08 04:47 AM

Thanks for the replies, I have some things to think about.


Posted by: SatKartr

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/08/08 02:35 AM

My two cents:
You definitely want the M80s.

FO M80s: $1198
Outlaw Audio 7200: $1849
663 (for new HD formats)): $345
Total: $3392 USD, pretty close to budget.

Caveat: You could easily stick with the 661 and wait for the next latest/greatest pre/pro ;\)

Enjoy/Regards,
SK
Posted by: Graeme L

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/08/08 02:26 PM

The M80's are $2584 aust, I am wondering if I should get the M80's first or the EP500?
Posted by: onn

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/08/08 02:33 PM

Get the M80's first because you'll get good bass out of them. Then you can gat a EP800! 8 is a lucky number you know \:D
Posted by: Graeme L

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/08/08 03:32 PM

 Originally Posted By: onn
Then you can gat a EP800! 8 is a lucky number you know \:D


LMAO yeah I wish.
Posted by: Graeme L

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/08/08 03:36 PM

I have a Stereo amp, it's a Marantz PM52, I am wondering if I could use that?

Also how do I setup a preamp? I know I plug into the Pre outs on the yammie but where do I go from there? Also does the yammie control everything or does the preamp?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/08/08 06:22 PM

The preamp does all the controlling. What ever you use as an amp should just be increasing the gain on the signal for output to the speakers. You plug in the interconnects to the preouts on the Yammie and then into the RCA ins on the amp.
Posted by: Graeme L

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/09/08 02:32 AM

Would that interfere with the surround sound? Or is it purely for volume control?

Sorry for all the questions but I don't have a clue about hooking another amp to an existing amp.

do you know of any decent sites that can explain it all in simple to understand terms?

Thanks
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/09/08 03:02 AM

Graeme, keep in mind that a receiver is a combination of a pre-amplifier and an amplifier in one chassis. When a separate external amplifier for one or more speakers is connected to the output of the corresponding pre-amplifier channels, the internal receiver amplifier circuitry for those channels is bypassed and the separate external amplifier takes over the job of powering those speakers. None of the control and processing functions(including for surround sound)of the pre-amplifier section are changed, because they take place before the pre-amplifier outputs(pre-outs).
Posted by: Graeme L

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/09/08 04:02 AM

Just so you know, I am going to buy the M80's this week and I am a little worried the Yamaha won't have enough grunt to run them.

So I thought if I can connect the marantz to the Yamaha to add extra power to the M80's things should be ok.

Ok, is this correct...

if I connect rca cables to the pre-out left and right mains on the Yamaha and then into the left and right speaker terminals on the Marantz?

Can I change the volume via the Yamaha? The Marantz doesn't have a remote.

Thanks again for your help.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/09/08 05:36 AM

As the Marantz isn't a true seperate amp, I would plug the RCA's from the Yamaha into the AUX input on the Marantz and then hook up the M80s to the speaker outputs on the Marantz. You will obviously need to set the Marantz to Aux input and then from this point you will have to level match all the speakers for the surround sound. I would try the Marantz at 1/4 volume first and then adjust its volume up from there till it reaches the same level as any of the other speakers which are hooked up to the Yamaha, from this point you should be able to use the Yamaha to control the volume.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/09/08 11:15 AM


I wouldn't even use the Marantz in the system, I doubt it is any better than the Yamaha. If it comes to the point and you feel you NEED an amp take a look into a pro amp. They seem to have a lot of power for the money. Or if you still have enough $$$ left over just get a nice 2 channel amp.
Posted by: myrison

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/09/08 11:26 AM

Wid - I was just going to say the same thing. While the earlier setup advice is correct, it still adds a lot of what may be unnecessary complication (and may not help much depending on the comparative output of the two and the volume levels you're trying to achieve, the room size, etc.).

I'd say try the M80s with the Yamaha first and go from there. Maybe you'll be surprised with how well the Yammy performs solo.

Jason

PS: Graeme - congrats! You're going to LOVE those M80s!
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/09/08 11:59 AM

As the others have said Graeme, just run the M80s with the Yamaha first, keep it simple, you may be surprised at how well it does. If it shuts down, then try the Marantz.
Posted by: Graeme L

Re: Advice on receiver - 12/09/08 01:20 PM

Thanks for the advice. I will just have to see how it goes, hopefully things will work out.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Advice on receiver - 01/17/09 06:06 AM

 Originally Posted By: Graeme L
Thanks for the advice. I will just have to see how it goes, hopefully things will work out.



So how did things work out?
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Advice on receiver - 01/17/09 02:58 PM

 Originally Posted By: wid

I wouldn't even use the Marantz in the system, I doubt it is any better than the Yamaha.

I use Denon, but when listening to some speakers a few years ago I listened to the Marantz higher-end line and was very impressed. In A/B listening to $3,000 B&K the Marantz really held its own. That was driving very low ohm and difficult loads. In particular, i was listening to 4-6 ohm PSB's and Martin Logan Clarity (I think). The ML are power hungry and the Marantz did a great job. On the low ohm PSBs it just sang. I have Marantz on my short list of replacement for my 3300, although another Denon will probably win the race. Two cents...