Why Axiom???

Posted by: BoB/335

Why Axiom??? - 01/04/09 09:13 PM

Just wondering how many bought Axiom without ever hearing them. Also, for those that did listen to them first, what other brands were in the running and why did Axiom win out?
Posted by: CV

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/04/09 09:19 PM

I bought Axioms without hearing them. I based my purchase on the reviews I read, their design philosophy, the return policy, the look of the speakers, and the functionality of the website. Who knows what company I would have supported if I'd done serious and exhaustive auditioning, but I haven't regretted continuing to round out my systems with Axiom speakers. I'm sure I'll still try another brand for a 2-channel music setup, just because, but I haven't been dissatisfied with what I've purchased at all.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/04/09 09:36 PM

Good question BoB/335

I ordered and auditoned Axiom because...

1) I read great reviews about their products as well as their prompt customer service in dealing with issues.
2) Their products fit within my budget and price range.
3) They manufacture their products in North America (Ontario, Canada).
4) Shipping costs are included in the price.
5) 30 day in home trial.
6) They do not put snake oil into any of their products.
7) Ethical business practices
8) I installed their products in my home and have been thrilled with their performance as well as the customer service since the day I ordered them...very happy Axiom owner here.




Posted by: spiffnme

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/04/09 09:54 PM

I listened to a ton of speakers and finally decided I really liked the Energy C-3's. I'd heard raves about the Axiom M22's though, so what I ended up doing was purchasing a pair of Energy's and a pair of Axiom M22's and doing an A/B comparison at home. The Axiom's were hands down better. Their clarity was simply too good to pass up. I returned the Energy's and was happy as punch.

That is until some joker let me hear their M60's.

When it was time to upgrade, I again listed to a bunch of speakers, and again a pair of Energy's caught my ear. This time the Veritas 2.2's. Once again, I found a local dealer with a good return policy and bought a pair of the Veritas, and A/B'd them at home with the M60's. It was a tough choice, but in the end I gave the edge to the M60's. Partly because they were priced so fairly. The Veritas were $1500 msrp (I found a pair at half price!), the M60's were $800 (I believe at the time) at full price. I liked the idea of buying from a company that made a product that was equally as good as a $1500 pair of speakers, but not charging so much.

I've been a full on Axiomite since. I now own...

M60ti
VP150
QS8
EP500

Mzero
VPzero
QS2

M2ti

Algonquin M3

I can see myself getting some of their new audiobyte's in the future. \:\)
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/04/09 10:01 PM

I have yet to audition Axioms, and will make arrangements to go to the factory when I am able (about 3hr drive for me). The other speakers in the running for me are Paradigm Studio (+$$) and Monitor Audio Silvers (+$$), both of which also get positive reviews. From my research the M80s are very similar in sound to the Pdigm Studio 100s which are very highly respected as are the MA RS6/RS8s. The biggest difference is the price point however, there are literally hundreds of speaker co's out there but there are few that give you as much value in my opinion. Once you sift through the fanboy reviews and read the professional reviews, well... as they say....the cream rises to the top. Of course it's better for your own peace of mind if you can hear them first, but even if you couldn't, you know what you are buying is backed up by hundreds of great reviews plus a 30 day return policy.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/04/09 10:03 PM

Aperion Speakers are free shipping BOTH ways. 30 day free trial. Seems to get good reviews and similar price point.
PSB
Energy

Just asking is all. There is another forum I have been visiting that seem to look down at anyone even suggesting buying a speaker without listening to it first.

Thanks for taking the time to humor me.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/04/09 10:09 PM

I don't know anything about Aperion, I do know that you will have to go to a much higher price point with PSB or Energy to directly compare to the Axioms unless of course, you are able to get a really good clearance sale or something.
Posted by: 80'sMan

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/04/09 10:32 PM

 Originally Posted By: Dr.House
I ordered and auditoned Axiom because...

1) I read great reviews about their products as well as their prompt customer service in dealing with issues.
2) Their products fit within my budget and price range.
3) They manufacture their products in North America (Ontario, Canada).
4) Shipping costs are included in the price.
5) 30 day in home trial.
6) They do not put snake oil into any of their products.
7) Ethical business practices
8) I installed their products in my home and have been thrilled with their performance as well as the customer service since the day I ordered them...very happy Axiom owner here.

That is word-for-word exactly how I would put my experience. The big things for me was value for the dollar & Canadian made. I almost went with a set of PSB's. They are also incredible speakers.
Axiom had the edge though in also offering great performance at a slightly better price. I LOVE'EM!!!
Posted by: grunt

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/04/09 10:40 PM

I bought them without hearing them but I had listened to speakers that were considered “similar” sonically and A/B compared them to 2 other brands B&W and Focal before deciding to keep them.

Have you decided what type of speaker (e.g. detailed, neutral, laidback etc…) you prefer yet. I’ve notice you posting lots of questions in forums about very dissimilar sounding speakers. Figuring out what sound you like should help you narrow things down a bit.

I “risked” ordering Axiom because of the following reasons:

1. They were reported by professional reviewers to be sonically similar to other brands I liked at a fraction of the cost.

2. Third party measurements that backed up what was being said about the Axioms.

3. Axiom’s straightforward business practices (e.g. shipping included in the price, building their own speakers, they offered basic speakers and charged others more if they wanted to upgrade to “pretty ones,“ low MSRP rather than having periodic “FANTASIC SALES!”)

4. Their NRC driven design philosophy.

5. The fact that Axiom reps and forum members talked me out 7.1 and down from the EP600 to the EP500. (gotta love a merchant who tells you to keep your money).

What I did not consider in deciding to what to try:

1. The opinions expressed by owners in internet forums about which brand is best. Once I decided on brands/lines I did listen to owners on which models might best fit my situation. (then I mostly ignored them )

2. How “pretty” the speakers were.

Why Axiom won!

They beat the crap out of B&W and Focal in the “best-bang-for-the-buck” race. I did think both the B&W and Focals I listened to were a little better but not near enough to justify the price difference.

P.S. The Axioms also got an honorable mention for coming in “silver and black.” How cool is it to have all your equipment in your team's colours.
Posted by: LT61

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/04/09 10:59 PM

I bought my M60s (custom oak vinyl finish) without hearing them.

Why?

I was upgrading my whole system. I was happy with my older (then Made in USA) JBL Floorstanders, but since speakers are so critical, I decided to upgrade them too.
To make a long story short....JBL, (IMO) dropped the ball, with their new, imported products.
I found the Axiom website, which is what sold me.. plus, the M60's features. (and a call to Axiom) The rest is history.
I'm a totally satisfied customer.

Then later, for reasons still unknown.......I discovered, and joined this forum.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/04/09 11:18 PM

"Have you decided what type of speaker (e.g. detailed, neutral, laidback etc…) you prefer yet. I’ve notice you posting lots of questions in forums about very dissimilar sounding speakers. Figuring out what sound you like should help you narrow things down a bit."

Exactly! I want them to be detailed, neutral, and laidback. Does that cover it?

Really, I want a speaker that is detailed and very natural sounding yet I want it smooth enough to not give ear fatigue after listeningfor hours.

I attempted to listen to spekaers that last few days. At J&R Music I heard a pair of JBL's and a pair of Polk. The JBL's seemed brighter. The Polks had better bottom end but were a bit dull on top. They had other speakers in another terribly laid out room so I didn't bother listening to any more there.

I went to 6th Ave Electronics. They couldn't figure out how to play in 2 channel stereo through their digital board. No dialogue in movies. They were looking for some music but didn't give them another chance after wasting 20-30 minutes. Later that day went to another 6th Ave Electronics a few towns away. Saleman was having another customer listen to a pair of towers. Only one speaker working. He spent time trying to hook up the speaker wire. The room had about 10 High hat lights but only one bulb was working on the other side of the room. I happened to have a flashlight on me. He spotted another speaker wire laying on the floor and tried to hook that up to no avail. I lookes at another pair that I wanted to hear. Turns out there was no wire running to the speaker on that same side of the room. That's when I walked out of this place.
Times like that I actually miss The Wiz!

Also stopped at the place where I bought my first system 26 years ago. He has no display and only does custom installs.

I can't even find a place to check out any good speakers.
Posted by: dewd

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/04/09 11:19 PM

 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
Aperion Speakers are free shipping BOTH ways. 30 day free trial. Seems to get good reviews and similar price point.
PSB
Energy

Just asking is all. There is another forum I have been visiting that seem to look down at anyone even suggesting buying a speaker without listening to it first.

Thanks for taking the time to humor me.


Why wouldn't you listen to see what you like? I happen to hate strawberry ice cream. I could ask here for opinions and maybe most will tell me strawberry ice cream is great. Still, it doesn't change the fact that I don't like it. Same thing with speakers. I could tell you Axioms are great, but who knows if YOU will like them.

I was set on B&W 683's (I REALLY liked the CM7's, too) and I liked some even more expensive FOCALS. I decided to try Axioms AFTER I listened to everything I could locally. I auditioned the M60's and liked what I heard. For the price difference, it really was an easy decision.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/04/09 11:44 PM

"I decided to try Axioms AFTER I listened to everything I could locally."

Isn't that what I just posted??? I intend to give Axioms a shot. I like everything I've read in reviews as well as forums. I need to get to listen to some speakers locally first, don't you think? I feel that I am basically in the same boat as everyone before me. I thought the idea of a forum like this is that everyone who has been there and done that are wanting (and maybe dieing) to share their experiences with others so that someone like me can learn from those experiences and keep from making some terrible mistakes. Am I missing something or doing something wrong or doing what most of you haven't already done?
Posted by: Jappy

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/04/09 11:58 PM

I listened to many speakers in stores and I liked some Paradigms and B&W. However, I was intrigued by the Axioms (Fredk I believe, turned me to Axiom's website from another forum).

Once I got here, I figured all the reviews indeed warranted a triout for the possible price of shipping them back. Also, after lurking the forums her for a couple of days, I got the sense that people who bought Axioms were very satisfied and very loyal to the brand. At first I was worried that it might be some good old internet fanboyism but it did seem to go far deeper than that. I also could talk with some people at Axiom and their service is indeed exemplary.

Other factors I took into account: I am a scientist and having a speaker designed with a scientifc method that I can understand helped convince me. Also, comparing the design of the M80's to other, pricier speakers I listened to (bigger, more drivers) I felt my chances of getting more for my money were good (even though I know more is not always better).

Anyway, I'm no expert, but I'm shuire my Axioms sound at least as good as much pricier speakers I auditionned so I kept them. People at the company have been a great help (damaged shipping, help deciding on what to buy, etc) so I kept my Axioms and could'nt be happier that I probably much better speakers that I could afford in a store.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 12:03 AM

Relax Bob, you're good. It sounds like you have some real 'winner' audio places around you. \:o

Take more time to listen to more speakers. Try some higher end stuff like B&W and Paradigms. Listen to the studio 100 if you can or anything in the studio line. If you like Studios, you will like Axioms.

Me, I stumbled on the audioholics reviews, read user feedback, learned about frequency response charts and the like, decided what the reviewers said matched the 3rd party charts, listened to some speakers including PSB, Totem and Paradigm Studios, liked the studios, listened to Axioms (at the factory) bought, never looked back.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 12:40 AM

 Originally Posted By: dewd

...... and I liked some even more expensive FOCALS.
Me too, I really, really liked the Profile 928's but at ~$5000, way out of my league. My M80s are great for their price.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 12:58 AM

I bought Axioms without hearing them but started with a pair of M2s for a music system.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 01:35 AM

 Originally Posted By: BOB/335

I thought the idea of a forum like this is that everyone who has been there and done that are wanting (and maybe dieing) to share their experiences with others so that someone like me can learn from those experiences and keep from making some terrible mistakes.


Those of us who have been asking that you go out and listen to speakers and report what you liked and didn’t like are not getting on your case but are trying to share our experiences with you. However, we can’t share our experience with how speakers sounded to us without a common reference. If you reported back that certain Focal or Paradigm speakers were to bright for you than I would steer you clear of certain Axiom models.

The most important experience I can share with you is not to make the mistake I almost did and buy the first good speakers you listen to or the ID brand that happens to be the flavor of the month in the forums. Like Fred I came across Audioholics and learned about Axiom and the importance of demoing speakers. I’m sure I would have gotten speakers I’d have liked but now I have speakers I love.

Bad luck on your local dealers. I hate shopping on a good day and it sounds like you had a pretty bad one. If you can’t hear anything similar to Axioms locally rather than order a full setup you might consider ordering a couple M22s. They sound very similar to the M80s and won’t cost much to ship back if you find them to bright. If you like them you can always take advantage of Axioms upgrade program and move up to towers if you don’t think bookshelves and a sub will be enough.

Cheers,
Dean
Posted by: Graeme L

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 02:47 AM

I am like others here, I bought with out hearing based on a lot of research on the net, Reviews etc, then I searched for negative reviews and couldn't find any.
I emailed Axiom with my layout and they emailed back suggesting a system and to my surprise, it wasn't the top tear stuff, it was middle of the road that they suggested. That in itself swayed me.

They recommended QS4's I bought QS8's, EP350 I bought EP500 and the VP100 I bought the VP150.
I could not be happier with them.

Alan has a lot of information on this site and he also helps out in these forums. Plus all these terrific people on this forum are always happy to help in anyway they can.
Posted by: CV

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 03:02 AM

 Originally Posted By: Graeme L
Plus all these terrific people on this forum are always happy to help in anyway they can.


Will someone please hijack this before it gets out of hand? \:\)
Posted by: grunt

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 03:51 AM

 Originally Posted By: CV
Will someone please hijack this before it gets out of hand? \:\)


“AND NOW...NO. 1...THE LARCH…”


Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 07:37 AM

LOL...gotta love MP references...

Bob, I believe that listening to some other speakers in showrooms can be helpful ONLY in determining the "type" of sound you prefer...as others have said.

But no speaker will sound the same in a showroom as it will in your OWN room. That variable...the room... will ALWAYS exist unless you try the speakers in your very own room. That's why Axiom offers the "30 days, no questions asked" policy that they do.

So determine the TYPE of sound you prefer, and if it's "detailed"...if you want to hear the fingers on the strings... just try some Axioms already!

If you don't like them, return shipping is not that bad in that they have a return shipping point here in the U.S. (Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's in Buffalo ... or at least I think it was four years ago when I ordered!).

In that four years since I've purchased and have been on these forums, I think I can count the number of people like yourself that came in here, asked questions, ordered and ended up returning the speakers on one hand.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 10:53 AM

On auditioning, I would suggest you get to some higher end places – J&R and 6th Ave are discount bins. Find an audiophile store with a full range of a company and be sure to bring your own music. My philosophy is to listen to speakers far outside my price range and see which of those speakers in my range reminds me most of those no-compromise models I loved in the freaking expensive class. I often find that high end companies have good trickle down on design and components, where others that take up much space at BB and CC seem to max out the engineering budget at the low end.

With high end companies (including companies like Axiom that focus on passionate buyers), you might not get the Kevlar woofer and diamond tweeter but you get the same box design, similar crossovers, and comparable drivers of less exotic origin. For me, I liked Wilson WATTs, Martin Logans and the highest end PSBs (Gold Si at the time, I think??). Watt does not go down, and Martins change character as you move down the line (plus they are hard to drive). After working down the PSB line I found a price point with familiar sound that I liked. For the sub, did it again, but this time came to B&W's. For surrounds, took a chance after checking pro reviews, forums, and general characteristics. Then, got lucky and liked the Axiom's. I only have the QS8, so my shipping risk was low in buying without hearing. But I am very satisfied with the purchase. I have run them hard over the last weeks and never heard an unintended peep.

If I was searching for new towers, I would still start the search the same way, even though Axiom seems like a safe bet [Note to Axioum: I would love a little shape to the speakers! Love the B&W 700 and 800 range, just by way of example, and the new PSB Synchrony range is a serious effort.]. Perhaps I would try to find a local Axiom customer and audition their setup (check around!). But I have to admit, not having a local source is a liability – hence the discount price of Axioms. So, do as you have been told – find the characteristics you like, if they fit the Axiom wave of support figure out if the shipping cost is worth the risk. But as mentioned, auditioning in your home is worth 10 auditions at a shop. No shop will sound like your room, and the speakers can’t change the environment they are in. In that way Axiom has an advantage as what you hear is literally what you get.

Good luck. And if it helps, I love my PSB 5Ts, but with my amp you do get some sharpness in the high end when pushed to near 100 db. Not a real problem, just a characteristic on weaker quality sources (mainly) that I would do without if I had a choice right now.
Posted by: lhulls

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 11:16 AM

Can't go wrong with PSB's, a great loudspeaker!!
Posted by: michael_d

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 12:09 PM

Interesting question Bob. I had to do some reminiscing to recall why I bought Axiom about five years ago, and why I still BS on this forum.

I had planned to install a whole home audio system in the house I built. I pre-wired it was wandering around custom shops listening to ceiling speakers and multi room electronics, and came to the conclusion that they all sounded like crap. That led me to abandon that idea and I started to listen to full range speakers. I listened to dozens from Polk to Wilson at shops and in homes of friends and friends of friends. Out of everything I listened to, I landed on Paradigm Reference. I don’t recall the model, but they were about six grand for the pair. I had credit card in hand and was going to call the shop to order a pair when on a whim I did a Google search to see what else might be out there from on-line suppliers. I figured it couldn’t hurt and I might even save a few bucks. I found a couple audio geek forums and posted a question. I think it was Audiohaulics that pointed me to Axiom… I had close to twenty different brands that folks recommended I listen to based on my preference for the way the Paradigm Refs sounded. I ended up narrowing down my choice between Axiom and AV123’s premier line. Both had in home trial periods and both had excellent customer service. In the end, the free shipping from Axiom won my business, as it was going to cost me close to eight hundred to ship the AV123 speakers to me (and the same amount to ship them back if I didn’t like them). The M80’s showed up and I thought they sounded great, so I kept them. I’ve since bought more sets of Axiom speakers.

To why I still hang out here….. I’m still wondering why. \:\) I suppose it’s the friendly atmosphere and all the great unbiased audio / video, and “non-audio” advice I get here. Feathers get ruffled from time to time, but the board members for the most part are a good bunch of guys and gals and I’ve even made a few friends along the way.

Would I buy Axiom again?? I see little reason to not buy them again. I like their sound, their customer service is top notch, and, you can have the speakers finished any way you want with just about any species of wood or vinyl you want.
Posted by: PeterChenoweth

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 12:19 PM

My choice of Axiom was similar to others.

In my case, what first caught my attention were all the positive reviews of Axiom speakers over on Audioreview.com. At the time, M22's were listed as one of the very top bookshelf speakers. M80's were near the top for floor-standers as well. Several other Axiom speakers were among the 'Top 10' lists. Axiom just really stood out. From there I started doing research on Axiom. I read a few more reviews and found this forum. The reviews all seemed to point to an 'incredible value for the dollar' theme, and the folks around here were nice enough to answer some questions. The 30-day return policy was enough to convince me that it was worth ordering blind. I was somewhat apprehensive about the experience, as this was the first time I'd ever purchased speakers without listening to them first. That was a big deal to me, but I figured at worst I'd be out maybe $50 (shipping) if I returned them.

Happily, I was very impressed with the SQ of the M22's. I quickly ordered a VP150 to complement them. Those speakers anchored my HT room for a good couple of years before I got the bug to upgrade and went with M80's & QS8's, which is where I am now.

I'm a happy customer and will gladly demo my system for anyone willing to listen. I appreciate Axiom speakers because they are truly excellent for the price. Like many of us, I've listened to a lot of other speakers. My wife and I have driven many hundreds of miles to various shops and listened to dozens of other speakers over the years. Admittedly, it's not easy to try to objectively compare speakers with so many variables. We did our best.

IMHO, there are better speakers out there. Axiom speakers aren't the be-all, end-all of speakerdom. But in my experience, everything that seemed more acoustically pleasing to me cost at least twice as much (often 3x +) as an equivalent Axiom speaker. And that's what did it for me. I simply couldn't justify spending $4,000 on a set of mains from CompanyX when a $1,300 set of M80's made me just as sonically happy.

Sure, that $10,000 pair of B&W 8xx's were better, and that $50,000 pair of Dynaudio's were jaw-dropping. But I'm not that wealthy. And that's really what it boils down to. Axiom's are excellent (period). But for the money, they're absolutely astounding.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 01:45 PM

In response to Charles' request for a thread hijack.

Didn't somthin somthin somethin Negative Orange somethin somethin ?
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 01:50 PM

I don't know, but CV somethin somthin to prove it.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 02:07 PM

EWWWWW!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 02:27 PM

Although I was not in the market at the time, my friend Peter (pmbuko) picked up a pair of these "Axiom M22" things off of the internet. Now, I'd seen the ads for them online, and was extremely skeptical. He (at the time) had some of the best speakers I'd heard, the Paradigm Monitor 9s. A year or two before, when he was shopping for the Paradigms, we'd heard Magnepans. When I heard those, I was amazed--they sounded fantastic and sort of took me to another place (hate the metaphor, but there we are). The only speakers that had done that previously were Hales, and that company was well out of business.

Anyway... Peter's M22s took me to that other place again. I was shocked to hear such good sound out of bookshelves, and internet only purchase bookshelves at that!

I bought some M50s as soon as WAF and finances permitted (I was required to finish building the entertainment center before I could buy!), and again had the same experience. When I got the M80s a few years later, it was the same thing all over again, only moreso. So I'm pretty sold on Axioms.
Posted by: casey01

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 02:39 PM

Having represented a couple of mid to high end retailers in recent years, this is a subject near and dear to my heart. Whether it be electronics or speakers, after all these years,in my opinion, ideally unless you can get the product in to your home for a test run(most retailers won't allow it), it is honestly very difficult to make an informed decision, especially if you are on a budget. Zimm brings up an interesting point of listening to higher end "high-priced" speakers for a start. I have about a dozen or so mid to high end retailers within a fifteen minute drive of my home and although this may be different in other areas, a common thread among all of them is that they separate out there high-end high priced(in this case speakers)models placing them in their own environment isolating them from the less expensive lines. In this particular case this set-up only allows you to make comparisons(assuming the dealer has switching capabilities) to products in similar price categories, and I can assure you this whole scenario is intentional. It should be noted in the case of the high-priced product in addition to substantial distributor and retail mark-up, you pay a considerable amount more for what is usually much more elaborate cabinetry. Unlike Axiom with its varying degrees of optional finishes, you generally have no option with the Wilson, B&W, Martin Logan, etc.

I have mentioned a couple of times in earlier threads that in their infancy, Paradigm, PSB AND Axiom did all their initial R&D at the NRC in Ottawa, Ontario with it's then ground-breaking unique anechoic chamber and the goals of ALL these companies was to design and manufacture speakers that were as neutral and transparent as possible, so if you are listening to any of these Canadian built speakers, you are essentially getting a somewhat similar sound. Paradigm and PSB's sell thru retailers, Axiom, obviously does not, so depending on what finish you chose, you are getting a similar sounding speaker to the others but usually for noticeably less money. Where the companies part ways in their philosophy is that Paradigm and PSB have chosen to offer three or four lines of speakers in different price ranges while Axiom has gone basically the "single" line route with a range of sizes. The exception being their subwoofers. Having said all that, I have owned AND listened to dozens of speakers over the years and IF objectively comparing "similar" sized enclosures with "comparable" driver configurations, regardless of price, you really can't go wrong with Axiom.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 04:05 PM

Something I noticed recently is that Totem's are all designed and set up 'by ear', no chambers and such, which I found very interesting. This could be why I find them a lttle too flat(?) for my tastes, as we tend to not want to hear top end as much as low end and I find Totems to be this way, they stil have detail but not like Axioms or Paradigm or any of the ones designed in a chamber.
Posted by: DaveG

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 04:22 PM

Others have covered every reason why I purchased my Axioms. I would definatly purchase from Axiom again.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 04:26 PM

WOW!!!! You folks really came through in a BIG way! Those are EXACTLY the types of experiences that I was looking to hear about. THANKS!!!!

I'll let you know how I make out. I found a place fairly close to check out some speakers on Wednesday.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 05:54 PM

 Quote:
a common thread among all of them is that they separate out there high-end high priced(in this case speakers)models placing them in their own environment isolating them from the less expensive lines.

Nice post Casey. This is exactly what I found. The one retailer where I tried refused to move PSB bookshelves into a room to do a direct comparison to Totems.

The store where I bought my first set of speakers as a teen had a room set up with 10 or 12 different speakers wired up to a set of switchboxes so you could a/b whatever you wanted. I have never seen that setup again.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 05:56 PM

After all these essays, I expect Mr. Stedenko to make an appearance next.
Posted by: StuntGibbon

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 06:18 PM

Before I got to the Axioms, I had been auditioning all sorts of stuff in my range. (i figured I was going to be in for about $10k for 5 speakers and a sub) This included a lot of the known mid/high-range brands like B&W, Paradigm, Mirage, PSB, Vienna, Magnepan, Klipsch, Totem, etc. I was probably leaning toward PSB or Paradigm. I'd read some less than stellar impressions of PSB's customer service, however. People needing an exchange and taking months for a turnaround.

Then a friend had mentioned he got all his stuff mail-order directly from Aperion and was really happy with them and didn't pay anywhere near as much as I was looking to originally. As I researched those, I got to the inevitable comparisons between Aperion, Axiom, Outlaw, SVSSound and the Rockets. Magazine speaker reviews are generally worthless, since it seems everyone likes everything.

However reading user impressions around the net, it seemed like people were really happy with their Axioms and the service. (and who can argue with a Canadian mad scientist in a brown suit) So while I didn't order full sets from Aperion and Outlaw, etc. to compare, I decided to try the Axiom set first. And, to me, sounded as good if not better than Paradigm/PSB stuff I was hearing at HT stores for thousands more. With the budget I had left to spare, I was able to grab the A1400-8 power amp too. (yeah, and that's not a cheap amp at all.. but that's how good the deal is on the speakers)
Posted by: StuntGibbon

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 06:19 PM

Note: I posted just to make sure fredk's prediction wasn't correct. ;\)
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 07:23 PM

I got to listen to some speakers a little while ago. I expected the place to be closed but happened to be in the area. I was going to this place on Wed so I'm glad I got this out of the way.

Nice place and very low pressure salesman. They mainly do installs also but had some displays to check out. Three different pairs in 3 different rooms. The guy carried them all to the same room and had to switch out the wires several times for me. No master control board.

Millenia 300 was initially ready to go. I thought they sounded good and some decent bottom for such a narrow, shallow cab.

Next up were PSB Imagine T Tower. Very appealing look and size. Great bottom in comparison to the Millenia. No where near as efficient as the Millenia. Had to turn it up much more. Very smooth sound.

Next up Paradigm Studio 60. I noticed the bass almost disappear in comparison to the PSB. Until it was turned up. These speakers totally opened up. I can say very "airy" highs and mids. bass was much cleaner. Overall a much clearer sounding speaker than the PSB. The guy tells me that the PSB is much more compressed and gives an illusion of more bass when it is really compressed bass.

Prices I believe were:
$2000 per pair for the Millenia
$2200 per pair of the PSB
$2000 per pair for the Studio 60

Special 20% discount on the Studio 60 VERSION 4 because the V. 5 is soon to be released. Making this a $1600 per pair speaker.

Special 35% discount for that floor model pair making that $1300 for a 1 year old Floor Model pair with a full new warranty.

I mentioned the Studio 100's and he thought that speaker should really have more power than my Denon 2309.
He also stated that Denon is a fairly bright amp with a fairly bright speaker in a room with oak flooring could be a bright combination.

So how did I do and what do you think?
Posted by: Wid

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 07:34 PM

If you liked the studio 60s you would love the M80s. As far as the Denon being bright, well that's pretty much hog wash. For just $30 more you could get the M80s (brand new) which are more akin to the Studio 100s. The Denon would power the m80s just fine.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 07:39 PM

What Rick said.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 07:46 PM

What Tom said Rick said.
Posted by: SRoode

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 07:47 PM

What Fred, Tom and Rick said.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 07:48 PM

Don't tell me Stedenko is fiddling with that coca recipe!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 07:50 PM

I concur.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 07:58 PM

Then I guess I should just order a pair of M80's.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 08:10 PM

Gawd, yes. Just get it over with and start enjoying the music.
Posted by: dewd

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 08:18 PM

Dang! I go away for one day and look what happens \:\)

Don't wait long to try the Axioms (or whatever ID brand you want to test). You can keep the local reviews fresh this way and have a way to compare (sorta, just not in your room).

Now, who here thinks chocolate ice cream is way better than strawberry?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 08:24 PM

Okay, I was going to wait a couple more days until I had a chance to audition the MA RS6/8s as well but I thought I should chime in here. I auditioned some P'digms earlier today....Monitor 11s and Studio 100s through Denon AVR/Player. I took my own material with me which consisted of Pearl Jam, Live, and The Sundays. All music was played through one set of speakers in two channel then repeated again through the other pair. I played both sets of speakers at both a "comfortable" volume and, at least what I would consider an "elevated" volume (not extremely loud but reasonable). Both of these speakers revealed flaws in some of the recorded material, most notably playing Lightning Crashes by Live, one of their best songs....a lot of hiss at the beginning where the guitar plays solo along with Ed. This dissappeared as the music built up and overcame the sound. "Overcome" was particularily emotional to listen to on the 100s...it did the song justice as it's meant to be, very engaging. Pearl Jam's "Evenflow" was smooth and detailed and both the 100s and 11s had good bass, the highs were clear and sounded accurate. Now, I saved The Sundays for last, quite simply because I felt the recording really made the 100s shine. I don't know if it was simply a better recording or not, but Harriet Wheeler's voice accompanied by David Gavurins guitar was very, I'll say realistic, very engaging and emotional as if you were sitting in the room with them. "Wild Horses" left me a little speechless. The 11s are good, the 100s are very, very good as they should be $1000 vs $2500. The 11s would be kind of like the Porsche Boxster....easy to drive and relatively inexpensive compared to the 100s which are more like the 911...quite a bit pricier but ultimately more rewarding. The Studio 100s simply took the music to a higher level, more clarity and better imaging. Both pairs were in a theatre room set-up, through Denon electronics....speakers about 9-10 ft apart. Later this week, I will try to audition the Mon Aud's.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 08:26 PM

Tom...who says you can't have both?
Posted by: Wid

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 08:47 PM

 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
Then I guess I should just order a pair of M80's.


I really think you would be pleased.
Posted by: RickF

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 09:35 PM

I was recommended to Axiom from my boss at work who had a pair of M60s so I ended up ordering a pair of 50s, QS4s, VP100 and EP350, the 50s never got opened up and was returned for a pair of 60s and the 4s were returned for the 8s ... I blame that on these forums.

I kept the 60s for a little while but because of numerous bodily threats for not being a member of the 80s posse I kept the 60s and ordered a pair of 80s ... I blame that on Wid.

Wasn't but a little while longer I ordered an EP600 because I was told the little 350 wouldn't cut the mustard and *had* to have a better sub ... I blame that on Dennis (Tharkun).

I later ordered the VP150 because the system was moved to a larger room ... I blame that on me.

Now my lovely wife says my life has gone to complete hell. Say's I don't do a damn thing around the house and all I ever do is post on these forums and am constantly PMing Wid or drinking beer while listening to music and talking about things I'm 'going to get done around the house' ... I blame that on Axiom.

\:D


I sure do wish I would have kept those M50s.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 09:37 PM

Hey Richy did you get my pm.... \:D
Posted by: RickF

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 09:49 PM

\:D \:D
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 10:08 PM

Chololate icecream, strawberries and banana blended with a dash of milk. As smooth as the Studio 100s. Much tastier.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 10:10 PM


My favorite is chocolate with reeses peanut butter cup pieces.
Posted by: RickF

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 10:16 PM

I'm easy and cheap ... a Tootsie Roll would be very good right about now.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 10:30 PM

Salted Nut Roll, mmmmm+-
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 10:42 PM

 Originally Posted By: sirquack
Salted Nut Roll, mmmmm+-


*giggle*
Posted by: RickF

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 10:45 PM

Cut him a little slack Sean, he's probably on the Natty Lights again this evening. \:D
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 10:46 PM

Natty Lights and Salted Nut Rolls. . .

Randy has passed to the dark side.
Posted by: Wid

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 10:48 PM

\:D \:D
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/05/09 11:55 PM

Nah, it was treadmill night, wife has me on a news year resolution to get in shape and get some additional life insurance. \:\)
Posted by: lucv13

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 12:00 AM

So she's getting in shape? and you're getting additional life insurance? --- I think me knows where this is leading
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 03:45 AM

No better way to go out, my friend. \:\)
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 04:39 AM

What happened to my thread??????????????
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 04:43 AM

 Originally Posted By: wid

My favorite is chocolate with reeses peanut butter cup pieces.



Then you should get yourself some of that good quality chocolate that gets melted down to fill your own molds. They are little discs. Grab a handful of the discs snd your favorite peanut butter and dip the discs in the jar.
(The discs may never make it to the molds and you may never have a Reeses again)
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 04:45 AM

 Originally Posted By: RickF
I was recommended to Axiom from my boss at work who had a pair of M60s so I ended up ordering a pair of 50s, QS4s, VP100 and EP350, the 50s never got opened up and was returned for a pair of 60s and the 4s were returned for the 8s ... I blame that on these forums.

I kept the 60s for a little while but because of numerous bodily threats for not being a member of the 80s posse I kept the 60s and ordered a pair of 80s ... I blame that on Wid.

Wasn't but a little while longer I ordered an EP600 because I was told the little 350 wouldn't cut the mustard and *had* to have a better sub ... I blame that on Dennis (Tharkun).

I later ordered the VP150 because the system was moved to a larger room ... I blame that on me.

Now my lovely wife says my life has gone to complete hell. Say's I don't do a damn thing around the house and all I ever do is post on these forums and am constantly PMing Wid or drinking beer while listening to music and talking about things I'm 'going to get done around the house' ... I blame that on Axiom.

\:D


I sure do wish I would have kept those M50s.






So what exactly are you saying here? Is that the route I should go? (except that I should keep the M50's?)
Posted by: RickF

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 09:10 AM

Bob since our initial purchase the lovely missus and myself built an addition on to our home for a dedicated room for the system and with hindsight being 20/20 and everything else staying the same, I would have kept the 50s over the 60s because I believe they would have made an excellent pair of stand alone stereo speakers for another part of the house where the volume stays low. Having the 60s is almost like having a second pair of 80s and I believe it would be nice to have differing speakers.

That's the only change I'd make, the 80s, 600, surrounds and centers are a system that I'm extremely satisfied with and have no regrets whatsoever with the purchases but I will add another VP150 to replace the VP100 in my 100/150 combination just so that the centers will both be the same.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 10:46 AM

What happened to the thread???? We hijacked it so nicely!
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 11:02 AM

My favorite is Baskin-Robbins Rocky Road. My retired favorite (sadly, never to return) is Ben and Jerry's From Russia with Buzz.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 11:07 AM

No Ice Cream for You!


Posted by: dewd

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 12:54 PM

Whatever ice cream you eat, you must have some Scheddy Balls to go with it. http://www.hulu.com/watch/4156/saturday-night-live-nprs-delicious-dish-schweddy-balls

Now we return you to your regularly scheduled topic.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 02:25 PM

Not in Canada ::rollyeyes::
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 02:26 PM

Re: Why Axiom???

Why Not Axiom?
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 03:21 PM

For a minute I thought this was not an Axiom forum.. \:\)
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 04:47 PM

This is an Axiom forum? I come here for the laughs.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 04:57 PM

I guess this thread is D O N E !
Posted by: Wid

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 05:03 PM


Have you decided what to get?
Posted by: RickF

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 05:03 PM

What?!?!

We're not even close to a hundred replies yet, this thing is just beginning Bob.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 05:14 PM

Has anyone mentioned that Axiom makes fantastic sounding speakers? \:\)
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 05:15 PM

They do what? I can't hear you. My M80's are possibly a little too loud, speak up.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 06:13 PM

'cmon Bob, join us. Your not a true Axiomite until you hijack your own thread! \:D
Posted by: FordPrefect

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 07:09 PM

Great question, sorry it took me so long to get to the party.

I first became aware of Axioms in the late 90’s when a local store was selling Epic Micros http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/axiom_epicmicro.htm

I remember listening to a demo of them and being totally blown away by the QS2s, not so much by the sound, as the demo was pretty terrible, but by the concept of having 4 speakers in such a tiny package. I left the store without buying regret by the way as I wish I owned a set of these miniature marvels)

In early 2000 I went into Toronto and auditioned a set of M3s. I loved them, the sound and the “look” was what I wanted.

Retired from work in 2004 and got a set of cherry M60s (I seem to be immune to the M80 chants), VP150 and QS8s. The decision was an easy one, I liked the product and after contacting Axiom on numerous occasions prior to the purchase I liked the “feel” of the place. My gut told me I was dealing with a quality product sold by quality people; time has proven that last statement to ring true.

In May 2004 I purchased Cherry Chestnut Semi Gloss M3s for my stereo setup, followed by the EP350 and VP150 (also in CCSG) in June. In late August I ordered the stands for the QS8s. All the CCSG purchases were from the Owners Club and look stunning and saved me quite a bit of money.

I have picked up each purchase at Axiom (now 4 visits) and must strongly recommend a trip there to anyone who is in the area. In my case it’s a bit less that a 3 hour drive and well worth the time and the 407 fee.)

I love the look of the Cherry Chestnut Semi Gloss finish so much that I will be also replacing my M60s and QS8s. Not sure what the M60s will be replaced with as my life now is in “total change mode”. I do know however that it will be an Axiom product.

So the short answer to “why Axioms?” would have to be “the QS series of speakers” That’s what initially attracted me. Now the answer to “why continue with Axiom?” well I think anyone who has been here for a while knows how to answer that one.

Oh yes, the quality of the forum members, both their advice and sense of humour is also a plus for me.
Posted by: edmondwolfman

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 11:11 PM

With the 30 day in home trial I didn't really think of it as "buying" speakers without hearing them. I got to hear them in my own setting for 4 weeks and could have sent them back if I hadn't been sold on them. I don't consider listening to speakers at a store really listening to speakers because pretty much everything will be different than your setup at home.

As far as the forum members here go, they are too damn nice. I have to go over the avforum occasionally to get abused and defiled
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 11:13 PM

So how many other 30 day home trial speakers did you try in your own listening enviroment?
Posted by: CV

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/06/09 11:16 PM

 Originally Posted By: edmondwolfman
As far as the forum members here go, they are too damn nice. I have to go over the avforum occasionally to get abused and defiled


Maybe if I hang out over there I won't feel like I need a girlfriend.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 12:30 AM

So in the interest of keeping this thread going a little longer, have I asked anyone here if they had compared the M80 to Energy RC-70's?
Posted by: Worfzara

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 12:53 AM

The 1st reason I bought Axiom’s is because they were the first speaker I ever owned. That was back before the internet, before home theater, and even before the compact disk. I bought a pair of Axiom AX2,s in 1986 with money I had earned from my paper route. I had them till 1994 when I moved to a 5.1 Kef system. The Axiom’s weren’t shielded and the local dealer that used to sell Axiom went out of business. My brother still owns my old AX’2s and they sound as good today as they did the day I bought them.

The 2nd reason I bought Axioms is because of Alan Loft. I remember reading many of his articles in audio magazines in the 80’s. I remember one of my favorites was about the merits of exotic speaker wire. The conclusion was that in double blind tests there was no sound improvement to be heard. I thought that was interesting considering I was seeing ads for many very expensive speaker wire promising huge improvements. This showed me that Alan is a man of integrity and truth. When I found he was endorsing Axiom, I was, to say the least, impressed. Then one day I called the Axiom 1 800 number for advise, and I got Alan on the phone. We talked for about an hour. It was great. I was sold.

The 3rd reason is price. I did the rounds before I went to the factory in Dwight, Ontario. I listened to B&W, KEF, Paradigm, Tannoy, Totem, Mirage, etc. I found that all of these makes had great speakers, some I really liked, except I would be spending over three grand just for the two towers, I still had to buy a sub, surrounds, and a center. That would have been well over six grand (for the record, I really liked the B&W 700 series). I just couldn’t justify the expense.

I love the sound of my M80’s, and I would put my EP500 up against just about any sub on the market at any price (except the EP600). And the QS8’s are a dream! I got the whole system for under 3 grand at the time (discount for factory seconds, second discount for picking up at the factory).

Today I spread the gospel of Axiom where ever I go!

pn
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 12:56 AM

Bob, the Energy Veritas are the line most comparable in sound to the M80s, not in $$ however. I went to check out the Rc-70s a few weeks ago, but ran into the same problem you had mentioned somewhere....namely speakers were all lined up, on display, with many not wired up ect. and little help from sales staff. I'll try another shop. Those 70s were going for a decent price recently at Future Shop here, I checked their web an hour ago, they hiked the price back up.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 05:43 AM

I to0 have only heard the RC-70 in FS. The 70's are a nice speaker for most people and when on sale, are a good buy. I would really like to do a better comparison in my home, but I think my wife would kick me out for doing more comparisons right now. I do remember thinking the 70s were not as detailed or clear as the Axioms I own. I seem to think this alot when I listen to other speakers until I listen to the higher end line ups.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 03:43 PM

I just returned from FS after listening to the RC70s and agree that there is some detail missing there, sounded good but not great. I also heard the Klipsch's next to them which I felt had better base, someshat more clarity and initially was ok with the highs. After about 10 minutes though, the Klipschs were seeming a little to bright for me(I liked the base though). Also heard the Polks while I was there, sounded kind of muffled and lacking in detail. Imaging was fairly good on the Energys and the Klipschs I thought.
Posted by: f1nels

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 04:27 PM

I too did the same here as most gentlemen.I narrowed it down to the Paradigm Studio 60's,Monitor Audio RS6's, and the Axiom M60's.I also was purchasing a center channel and had to factor that into the price.I had Paradigm Monitor 7's and a CC350 center that I was looking to upgrade.My first inclination was to go the Studio line but the price of $2,000. for the 60's and another $1,000. for the CC590 center kept me from going with new.The RS6's were similar priced to the Axiom M60's but again their center was $799.Even with discounts the Axiom's were still the better deal for in my opinion a just as good if not better sounding speakers.I am very happy with my M60,VP150 front sound stage and is a noticeable improvement from my Paradigm Monitors.
I have that higher end sound I was looking for without breaking the bank.
Nels
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 04:32 PM

I like horses. I love a good corn-dog. I enjoy long walks on...wait, oh no, wrong forum.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 04:35 PM

Don't forget to tell the chicks about your 500 crystal changer Zimm.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 04:44 PM

f1nels, thanks for the input. I've heard some good things about Mon A RS6/8s but like you say...it comes at price (the surrounds are twice the $$ of the QS8s). Never-the-less I'll audition them anyway, for my own piece of mind. The Paradigms are also very nice, people say the Studio 100s and the M80s are similar as well as some B & W's soundwise, so it's good to hear these other speakers to compare. We all know how the prices compare.
Posted by: edmondwolfman

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 05:05 PM

Listened to 3 other brands "in my home" but the M60s sounded better than all of them and the price was something I could definately live with so... after I had the M60s in place I decided to keep them. The others weren't 30 day trials but I had access to them so I set them in place and did some a/b/c testing for a week or so. Had I not been happy with the Axioms there were a couple other Internet Direct brands I was going to try. So in my humble opinion if even if you can listen to speakers in a store they don't sound the same when you get them home and an Internet Direct company with 30 day money back guarantee is just as good a deal if not better especially when you consider that the Internet Direct speakers would probably cost twice as much from a brick and mortar store
One other thing, if the Axioms would not have had a 30 day in home trial I would never have heard them because I wouldn't have purchased them if I hadn't heard them or if I couldn't do a trial and send them back if I didn't like them.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 05:40 PM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
Don't forget to tell the chicks about your 500 crystal changer Zimm.

Can't peak too soon! I hold that Ace Card until I get them back to the pad. Then I say "would you like to watch Top Gun...while holding my crystals!" Beaten them off with a stick I tell you.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 05:45 PM

Don't let this get out, the price of these crystals will skyrocket!!!
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 05:54 PM

Post #99
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 05:54 PM

and #100!! Wow...
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 06:00 PM

Yea, but I got #101.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 06:02 PM

Hmmmmnnnahhhh....hmmmnnahhhh.....103....103....do we have 103.....hmmmnnaaaaahhhh....
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 06:58 PM

 Originally Posted By: fredk
Yea, but I got #101.


I was going to do that an hour ago but I thought it would be lame.
Posted by: anthony11

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 07:54 PM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
Hmmmmnnnahhhh....hmmmnnahhhh.....103....103....do we have 103.....hmmmnnaaaaahhhh....


Dexter, is that you?
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 08:21 PM

[quote=BoB/335I was going to do that an hour ago but I thought it would be lame. [/quote]
Carpe forum!
Posted by: StuntGibbon

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 09:03 PM

*useless post that adds nothing* Am I doing this right?
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 09:04 PM

You're a natural!
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 09:59 PM

[shakes fist] Why Axiom??? Why do you make such fantastic speakers that I can't resist listening to as often as possible?


WHY?!?!?!?!
Posted by: Zimm

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 10:28 PM

 Originally Posted By: Zimm
 Originally Posted By: Adrian
Don't forget to tell the chicks about your 500 crystal changer Zimm.

Can't peak too soon! I hold that Ace Card until I get them back to the pad. Then I say "would you like to watch Top Gun...while holding my crystals!" Beaten them off with a stick I tell you.

My wife says I have to stop acting like I have some mojo, and that the Top Gun come on is out dated; so I guess I am done with this thread.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/07/09 10:29 PM

speaking of Mojo, where is that guy?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 05:53 AM

Working at home, still swearing off this and all forums. He just can't bring himself to drop in every now and then. He said once he stops in, he can't seem to leave, which is how he hit 3200 posts in a little over a year! IIRC.
Posted by: CV

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 10:31 AM

I didn't think we were THAT cool.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 11:04 AM

Shows what you know! ;\)
Posted by: RickF

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 11:38 AM

I'm cool.


Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 12:00 PM

I'm cooler!
Posted by: Wid

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 12:07 PM

My vote is for Cam one this one. Rick is far to old to be cool \:D .
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 12:12 PM

<sigh> Me too, to old to be cool. But I vote for Hutzal as the coolest, going to music school in Hollywood, how much cooler can you get?
Posted by: Wid

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 12:14 PM

Hell all I know is I'm not in the running I'm ALMOST as old as Rick \:D
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 12:25 PM

Ditto on the not running \:\)
Posted by: RickF

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 12:29 PM

Maybe we ought to categorize this little thing.

I know for a fact I used to be cool, the 80 year couple down the street thinks I'm alright.
Posted by: LT61

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 01:02 PM

 Quote:
Subject: Why Axiom???


Why not?
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 04:10 PM

I thought I was pretty cool and then I read the last post and remembered this is a thread I started on "Why Axiom"? I forgot!
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 10:07 PM

Do you guys feel alright? I can't believe I come home and there is nothing here.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 10:09 PM

 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
Do you guys feel alright? I can't believe I come home and there is nothing here.


Thats the time to enjoy a pair of M80's
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 10:14 PM

Anyone care to comment on M80s vs Paradigm Studios in regards to imaging?
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 10:59 PM

There is some talk regarding the "brightness" of the M80 and also a recommendation of Salk Tower speakers.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51006&page=4

interested to hear from fred k since he visits that forum and also has the system I am considering.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 11:21 PM

It has been mentioned on this forum often that the Axiom lineup is similar to the Paradigm Studio's (or higher) models. Just stay away from the Paradigm Monitor series.
Posted by: wr5931

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 11:21 PM

Why Axiom???

Because My Former Friend got a Bose
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/08/09 11:31 PM

 Originally Posted By: sirquack
It has been mentioned on this forum often that the Axiom lineup is similar to the Paradigm Studio's (or higher) models. Just stay away from the Paradigm Monitor series.


I heard both the Monitor and Studio lines of Paradigms and most definately the Studios have better imaging and more clarity than the Monitors in A/B testing. My sole reason for auditioning the Studio 100s was there were a number of comparisons made between the 100s and the M80s. The consensus seemed to be the M80s had a soundstage on par or perhaps even better than the Studio 100s. If that's the case....I liked the 100s, so at almost half the price, I guess I'll LOVE the M80s.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/09/09 05:22 AM

The Salk's have been the flavor of the year on AVSForums, but they are still more expensive than Axioms. Brightness is a personal opinion about how a speaker sounds. I do not find Axioms bright, nor do the the many of us that own them. I do find many other speakers to sound muffled in comparison.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/09/09 11:47 AM

 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
interested to hear from fred k since he visits that forum and also has the system I am considering.

I am not sure what more information I can give you. Jamie at audioholics dosn't like the M80s, I do.

I guess the only thing I can add is that differences in sound are much more subtle than most people would have you think. Alan Loft, in his comparison of the M80 and another speakers, suggested that a 2db difference in the midrange, the frequency of sound we are most sensitive to, is audible but subtle.

As you move up in frequency, its is going to be less and less audible until it makes no difference. Heck, most people can't hear anything above 16KHz and if you are 40+ possibly no more than 12KHz.

Independant anechoic measurements of the M80s show that the speaker has a very flat frequency response. Period. Done. End of story. Can you hear the difference in the high end vs a speaker where it rolls off starting at, say, 8KHz? Probably a subtle difference.

Have you ever listened to live music in a good hall? That is the kind of sound the M80s will give you. Because of the flat frequency response it will be like having a seat in the first 15 rows of a show. If the high end response is rolled off slightly, it is like having a seat at the back of that same good hall. Is the sound in either seat bad? No. Would you notice the difference in seats if I didn't write this? No.

The M80s are a great speaker. The Salk Songtowers are probably also a great speaker(I havn't personally heard them). The Studio 100s are also a great speaker...

Stop worrying, start enjoying. Whatever you pick, unless its Bose, will be good.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/09/09 11:51 AM

 Originally Posted By: fredk

Stop worrying, start enjoying. Whatever you pick, unless its Bose, will be good.
And that is as simply put as it can get, at least when you are considering the types of speakers we usually talk about here. There are some other bad speakers out there, not just Bose.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/09/09 11:57 AM

I took the maximum number of words to get there, didn't I.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/09/09 11:59 AM

Are we going for 200 posts?
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/09/09 12:01 PM

If so, post #134 is that seafood is my favorite food.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/09/09 12:02 PM

I mean #135, this is #136. Just not to confuse anyone.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/09/09 12:04 PM

That reminds me of a stunningly good looking 19 year old that pull that see-food joke on me in a nice restaurant. Looks aren't everything.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/09/09 04:29 PM

hope that wasn't a guy
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/09/09 04:31 PM

I appreciate all the help you guys have been. Really!
Posted by: SatKartr

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/09/09 09:20 PM

Over somethin' better than Klipsch? Sorry folks I just couldn't help it, that one was my all time favorite.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/10/09 06:23 AM

OK. I've made a decision. I am going to order a pair of M80's and an EP350.

Here is my reasoning. I think I can do fine without the center channel for now. I am using a pair of Polk bookshelves right now (placed on the floor) with my new 2309 and dialogue sounds fine.

I thought I would wait a while on the sub till after adding the surrounds. After all my reading I felt that the bottom end on the M80's would do without a sub for a time and get the surrounds first. I have mentioned (I believe) that I play guitar and dable in PA. (Check out my band http://www.myspace.com/themilestoneband )
My PA amps are double my RMS power (actually they no longer use RMS with PA speakers). 700 watts to each Main and 1100 watts to each sub. This power was for clean headroom and NOT for loud volumes. The PA sounds pristine. I have had concerns that I should have more power than the 2309 will supply to the M80's. Although I still feel that the M80's will have a great low end, having a 350 watt sub will leave more available power to the mains with more headroom and less chance for clipping at loud volumes plus less of a strain on the 2309 with a 4ohm load.

For those of you wondering what I am talking about: it is a known fact that it takes much more power to produce low frequencies than high frequencies. By removing the low frequencies from the M80's and sending them to the sub allows more available power to push the rest of the fequencies in the mains. This will give you more clean headroom for the mains with far less distortion at louder volumes.

I will place the order later today for the M80's and EP350 through the Factory Outlet. I will order the QA8's not too far down the road. I don't expect to be sending anything back.

I have all of you to thank for putting up with all of my questions. I know what I liked about the Paradigm Studio 60's (which are beyond my budget) compared to the others I compared them too. I believe I understand what to expect from the M80's also in reference to the greater detail vs. the "brightness" issue. I don't think I can obtain this at any other pricepoint. I haven't read any negative reviews about the speakers or the company. And I can always send them back if the are really disappointing.

So there you have it. Oh, and one more thing. I considered starting a new thread with this post but I pushed this one to #141. You guys seem to get off on long threads.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/10/09 10:47 AM

Congrats! Keep in mind, your not removing the low frequencies. It does not just cut-off at the frequency you select for the crossover, there is a gradual slope that blends to the subwoofer.

Besides, you may find that you set the 80's to full range, or something around 40-60hz, as they can produce that just fine.

If you liked the Studio's I think you will love the 80's.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/10/09 03:01 PM

I would like to read an explanation of the "gradual slope" on the crossover that is in print. That's not my understanding of a crossover.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/10/09 03:10 PM

The crossover slope describes how sharply or quickly the crossover attenuates (decreases) the amplitude (strength) of audio signals at frequencies above (low pass crossovers) or below (high pass crossovers) the crossover frequency. The slope is described in dB per octave. The higher the value, the sharper the roll-off, and the more control the listener will have over which frequencies are played by any particular speaker. A 24dB/octave slope is considered very steep (good) and a 6dB/octave slope is relative low (more difficult to control audio signals).
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/10/09 09:44 PM

Bob, you didn't describe what your understanding was, but crossovers don't suddenly cut off the sound above or below the selected frequency. The typical crossovers in HT receivers roll off(not cut off)the frequency response to the speakers at 12dB per octave below the selected frequency and to the sub at 24db per octave above that frequency. For example, S&V includes a test of the crossover in their bass-management results for receivers, and you'll note here that in their excellent results for the Onkyo 706 that the roll-offs met the 12dB and 24dB standard at the 80Hz test frequency.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/11/09 01:14 AM

Congrats Bob, you will have no regrets.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/12/09 05:14 PM

Well, I did it. Just purchased a pair of Boston Cherry M80's and an EP350 sub form the outlet store with a Bill Me Later option.
I'm going to go have a drink now. \:D
Posted by: onn

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/12/09 05:17 PM

Welcome to the Axiom and M80 family Bob. Your going to love the M80's
Mel N.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/12/09 05:18 PM

Congrats, Bob, give us the lowdown when you get them!!
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/12/09 05:27 PM

Welcome to the M80 club Bob! I hope you like them, considering the amount of time you spent on the net looking for speakers. I think you will. \:\)
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/12/09 06:34 PM

Thanks everyone. The outlet store could take me up to 4 weeks before I get them. I was going to go for the whole pkg. but I'll have to wait.

I listened to a few speakers.
A Polk surround sound that I thought was pretty good for a small system
Polk Towers
JBL Towers
Klipsch RF82
PBS Imagine
Paradigm Studio 60's
Paradigm Millenia 300

I would have liked to check out some more but it seems like anything I would have liked would have been "more" out of my price range than I am already.

I am grateful for all the forums that are on the internet. Some aren't as helpful as others. I realize ie's best to hear every speaker for yourself as everyone has different tastes and opinions. I think after hearing a few and listening to those that are willing to describe their impressions on what they have heard that you can get a pretty good idea of how those that you haven't heard might sound.
I also know that any forum that is dedicated to a particular brand will be somewhat partial but I think that this particular forum has been rather kind to many of the competition. This shows a level of personal integrity and maturity. (well some of you aren't THAT mature )
I have really enjoyed my time here and hope that I enjoy my speakers at least half as much!
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/12/09 06:44 PM

Hey Bob, keep in mind you will get them the average date of all the speakers, not the longest speaker time.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/12/09 06:58 PM

Based on our upcoming production schedules and our current order backlog for Factory Seconds, the "wait time" below lists when you should expect delivery on the model of your choice. Click to pre-order and you're guaranteed the product of your choice!

Not sure what you are saying though.

Just glanced through your website. Found it interesting that someone with that layout could probably go for just about any speaker that I could never afford and you went with Axiom. Seems to say something.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/12/09 07:09 PM

Sometimes you get it faster than they say you will, basically.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/12/09 07:41 PM

Don't always trust what you read. Those of us that have been around these parts a long time now that normally you get the speakers much sooner than the longest lead time. As I said, if you average the times, that is about when you'll get them in most situations.
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/12/09 07:43 PM

 Originally Posted By: sirquack
Don't always trust what you read..

Should we trust what you just wrote? ;\)
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/12/09 07:47 PM

A lot of people have a nicer setup than I do, I refinished the basement myself it took 2 years. \:\) I charged my speakers on a credit card, I only wish I could pay cash like most. The only reason we have this house is because we purchased our first house back in early 92 when things were appreciating at astronomical rates, sold it 10years later and had 60K in equity. Otherwise, we would not have been able to build this house. Cost around 200K to build and would be worth 1/2 Mil in California. \:\)
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/12/09 07:47 PM

nope. \:\)
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/12/09 09:03 PM

 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
PBS Imagine
Paradigm Studio 60's
Paradigm Millenia 300

Hey Bob, how did the PSB Imagines sound? The few reviews that are out really pump them up. Also, what do the Millenias sound like compared to the Studio 60?
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/12/09 10:18 PM

 Originally Posted By: fredk
 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
PBS Imagine
Paradigm Studio 60's
Paradigm Millenia 300

Hey Bob, how did the PSB Imagines sound? The few reviews that are out really pump them up. Also, what do the Millenias sound like compared to the Studio 60?


Hey Fred,

I wrote my reviews in here somewhere. The PSB was pretty impressive for it's size and probably has a great WAF. Very noticeable bottom end. Sounded good on its own. In a comparison it dropped a few notches. Against an "airy" detailed speaker such as either Paradigm it sounded a littled muffled and compressed.
The Millenia 300 also has a great WAF look about it. NEEDS a sub!
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 12:28 AM

 Quote:
Cost around 200K to build and would be worth 1/2 Mil in California.

About 3 years ago it would have been worth about least 700k, I bet.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 04:40 AM

 Originally Posted By: sirquack
As I said, if you average the times, that is about when you'll get them in most situations.


OK I think I got it. Let's see. M80's says 4 weeks. EP350 says 4 weeks. If I average the two together I get UMmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 4 weeks. Is that right?
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 04:56 AM

I had my M80s shipped after only 1 week of waiting and the time stated 3 weeks. I beleive many of us on the forum experienced similar times, much faster than the expected.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 06:43 AM

Bob, before you get your hopes up that they'll DEFINITELY be shipped early, I remember reading posts from people that complained on the forums that their speakers took exactly the right time as stated at purchase.... but they were upset because they were assuming they would ship earlier.

I know... "Party Pooper".
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 11:48 AM

Every party needs one. That's why we invited YOU.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 04:25 PM

Just got home from work and they aren't here yet!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 04:32 PM

Nose pressed up against front window looking for Fedex Van.... \:D
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 04:33 PM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
Nose pressed up against front window looking for Fedex Van.... \:D

Are you sure they're not coming from the back?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 04:41 PM

He's got the wife casing the back window!!
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 04:54 PM

Not sure my wife knows yet!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 04:58 PM

 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
Not sure my wife knows yet!


Uh oh, better have a chick movie ready...
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 04:59 PM

Don't make the mistakes I made, rack up the credit card, then try to come up with an excuse on why there are these huge moving boxes on the front step from Canada.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 05:19 PM

Oh was that a mistake???????
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 05:25 PM

All excuses should be considered before such confrontation arises...perhaps Ian should put some examples on the website for prospective buyers....

A) My doctor told me the M80s would reduce my stress
B) If the area floods, we can paddle the EP600 to safety
C) They cost the same as regular furniture but they have speakers in them
D) The M80s can be used to make very loud barking noises to scare away thiefs
E) You are part of an experiment linked to the National Research Council of Canada, this may also require future upgrades to 'scientific' equipment


Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 05:39 PM

I'm an electrician by day and do some side work at night. Most of the extras in my house come from my extra money. My wife knows I have been researching speakers. She also knows that I am fairly thorough when researching any purchase. She slao knows that I would rather spend a few extra bucks to get something good than to settle for something less and wish I had gone the extra mile.
She also knows that when I don't mention price it is because she probably wouldn't want to know. She does the bills so she will know soon enough when we get the Bill Me Later statement.

A funny side: I went to the supermarket to get Money Orders the other night. (Trying to spare my wife the shock of the coming bill) Money Orders max at $300. I aksed for 7 Money Orders totalling $1880 for my order. After counting my money the guy (kid) leaves my money on the counter behind him and disappears for several minutes. I'm in a bit of a rush. He finally comes out and I say that I didn't expect this to be a project. With that I see him holding this thick book and on the cover it says something about Money Laundering and he says I will have to sign something. I asked for my money back and split. (That's why it may have seemed like I was placing my order over the weekend and then didn't do it till Monday evening)

Another thing to factor in is that I lost my Mom in October and I will be getting some inheritance. (Probably should have ordered the whole setup)After everything is settled I will probably take the wife away for the weekend (it was a hell of a past 2 years) and when she is all nice and rested I will place the rest of the order.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 05:57 PM

Sorry to hear about the rough times, on the plus side Axiom will still honor the 5% HT discount if the orders are placed with-in 30 days of each other.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 06:48 PM

 Originally Posted By: jakewash
Sorry to hear about the rough times, on the plus side Axiom will still honor the 5% HT discount if the orders are placed with-in 30 days of each other.


Is that on top of the Outlet Store discount?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/13/09 10:04 PM

Yes, an additional 5% discount if at least 5 items are ordered.
Posted by: SatKartr

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/14/09 01:26 AM

I was told by Noreen at Axiom that they pre-calculate the FO wait times by averaging them (e.g., if you order various FO speakers at 1-, 3-, 5-week estimates then they average/plan to ship them in 3 weeks, in my case she confirmed early on an exact ship date of Nov 10 [woohoo], which was 3 weeks only although the qs8s should have taken 2 weeks more) yet failed to mention that my (pre order) subwoofer ship time was anyone's guess (oops! thanks Jason for preventing my first heart attack}
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/14/09 10:24 PM

 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
Not sure my wife knows yet!


Well I spoke with Noreen today and discussed how the discounts work including from the Outlet Store. I would save an additional $136 by ordering the other speakers now from the Outlet Store. I'm a sucker for saving money.

So I was hoping to hear the M80's and the EP350 BEFORE I ordered anymore from Axiom. So now I have an Epic 80-350 coning from the Outlet Store around Feb 2. I think I broke the rule that says not to buy any speakers before hearing them. Is this the dumbest thing I ever did?
Posted by: RickF

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/14/09 10:37 PM

 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
Is this the dumbest thing I ever did?


Well I don't know Bob, care to share a few examples before we make our determinations?

\:D
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/14/09 10:51 PM

On second thought..........................
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/14/09 10:57 PM

 Originally Posted By: RickF
 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
Is this the dumbest thing I ever did?


Well I don't know Bob, care to share a few examples before we make our determinations?

\:D


That was really funny, Rick! \:D


Bob, you gotta think twice about what you say here. We can't let things like that slide. Call it our forum duty! ;\)
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/15/09 02:03 AM

Actually its more fun when you don't think twice.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/15/09 05:25 AM

The dumbest thing was probably starting to post on here with the rest of us.

Congrats on the upgrade to full HT!!
Posted by: dewd

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/15/09 02:38 PM

 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
Not sure my wife knows yet!


Well I spoke with Noreen today and discussed how the discounts work including from the Outlet Store. I would save an additional $136 by ordering the other speakers now from the Outlet Store. I'm a sucker for saving money.

So I was hoping to hear the M80's and the EP350 BEFORE I ordered anymore from Axiom. So now I have an Epic 80-350 coning from the Outlet Store around Feb 2. I think I broke the rule that says not to buy any speakers before hearing them. Is this the dumbest thing I ever did?


No. You have 30 days to hear them in your own room with your own movies. It may be the smartest thing you did this week.
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/16/09 12:03 PM

Oh, we are almost at 200 posts! \:\)
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/16/09 01:05 PM

How many more to go?
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/16/09 01:21 PM

One less.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/16/09 05:27 PM

Ahem. One fewer.

Carry on. \:\)
Posted by: RickF

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/16/09 07:01 PM

I'll add.

I was reading the label on our bottle of Omaggi Extra Virgin Olive Oil a few minutes ago and noticed it was distributed by these folks.

That is all.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/16/09 07:33 PM

I was just thinking what all the people that I have invited from other forums when they ask "Why Axiom" are thinking as they read through this thread.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/17/09 05:28 AM

That we are crazy and they would be right.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/17/09 05:56 AM

I read through some of the beginning of this thread again. The answers were much more serious and made me want to check out Axiom speakers. Guess that's one reason why I am checking them out.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/17/09 05:57 AM

What happens when we hit 200?
Posted by: medic8r

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/17/09 07:49 AM

You win a bottle of that olive oil that RickF mentioned.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/17/09 11:15 AM

And then?
Posted by: Wid

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/17/09 11:18 AM


Left to your imagination.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/17/09 11:24 AM

Can I
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/17/09 11:24 AM

do this?


Sooooooooooo childish!
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/17/09 03:11 PM

Yay, Bob did it!!
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/21/09 05:15 AM

I could have started another thread butthis one was getting lost on the next page.

The "Bill Me Later" bill came already. My wife pays the bills so it's not unusual for her to open what looks like a bill. She casually says that I have a bill. (Mind you it's for $2596) I said wow that came already? She casually asks what's that for? I said it's the speakers. THE SPEAKERS!!!!!!!!!! She says. I said it'll sound great. The rest is a blurr. She's always good to me and give me slack when it comes to my side money. Besides this in inheritance money. She's OK I guess \:\/
Posted by: davidsch

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/21/09 07:24 AM

Call me a wuss if you want, but the day that I spend $2,596 on something without talking to my wife about it is the day that she leaves me. Hope that you both enjoy the new speakers.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/21/09 04:40 PM

Ok, you're a wuss, but so am I. \:\)
Posted by: Wid

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/21/09 04:43 PM


X3
Posted by: Da_Gimp_Pimp

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/21/09 04:53 PM

 Originally Posted By: davidsch
Call me a wuss if you want, but the day that I spend $2,596 on something without talking to my wife about it is the day that she leaves me. Hope that you both enjoy the new speakers.


But then you'd be able to buy the speakers ;\)
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/21/09 07:05 PM

I think you guys misunderstood. I never make a major purchase without discussing it with my wie. She new that I was spending a lot of time researching and when that happens it's always going to cost. She also knows when I don't talk about it much it's because it's going to cost. The only reason why I did it this time is because I have an inheritance coming to me and I don't think she would have understood an expense like this for speakers. If was "our" money it would have been an entirely different story.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/21/09 08:30 PM

... but its soo much fun when people misunderstand...

Carry on.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/22/09 04:41 AM

I'm used to it. I've been misunderstood my whole life! \:o
Just ask my wife.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/22/09 07:41 PM

I thought I'd share my auditioning experiences over the last few weeks with everyone, perhaps some of what I learned can help (or not) other 'newbies' such as I, when it comes to making a choice between brands. Keep in mind, I am in part, going by memory, although I took some notes during my auditioning. A few were tested A/B style, while some were not...I'll indicate which ones were heard up against each other with a capital letter. There's a broad range of pricing amongst these speakers simply because, from the start, I wasn't sure how much I wanted to invest in my audio system. Initially I was budgeting simply for a very modest home theatre system (around $7-800 :D) but as I started to audition, I started to 'love music again' and hadn't ever really owned a decent system...so I decided to more-a-less put the original budget aside. There's a number of speakers here so I'll be rather brief.

Budget group;

(A) Mission M35i; seemed unnatural sounding to me, lacking detail in mids and upper freq, rather muffled sounding \:\) \:\)

(A) Sinclair Audio BT36; wanted to like these speakers and initially was impressed, but after hearing other speakers, less so. Lots of midrange, average detail, imaging, considering the cabinet size(48 in high) I wasn't impressed with the bass \:\) \:\)

(A) Infinity P362; of the budget group, I thought these were good value/$. Decent range, imaging and detail, overall nice sound for the $. \:\) \:\) \:\)

(-) PSB Alpha; also a good value/$ for entry level PSB. Had more bass than I would have expected and easy to listen too \:\) \:\) \:\)

Mid-priced

(A) JBL(ES 80/90); found these very hard to listen too (tried 3 stores), seemed harsh sounding \:\) \:\)

(B) Energy RC-70; these were probably my biggest dissappointment, I really expected to like these speakers more, but felt they were muted/muffled as if someone placed a blanket over them. Imaging was good, I consider these 'mid-priced' only if they're on sale...usually they're a little pricey \:\) \:\) \:\/

(B) Klipsch RF 62/63; except for the highs, which became tiring after several minutes, I would have enjoyed these speakers. Nice bass, and mid clarity...just feel Klipsch should tone the brightness a little, could have been a nice speaker otherwise \:\) \:\) \:\)

(C) Paradigm Monitor 11s; if your interested in the P'digm Monitor series, I would suggest either the 9s or 11s as they go much deeper than the 7s. 7s have quite small drivers/cabinet and would certainly need a sub to fill the bottom end. I liked the 11s, they had nice detail, range, soundstage,fairly large cabinets (centre speaker for HT is huge!), reasonably priced and good value \:\) \:\) \:\) \:\)

Upper Echalon

(C) Paradigm Studio 100s; these are beautiful speakers, both to look at, and listen too. Very detailed, exc. imaging and clarity, they go low, full range...is it worth more than double the P'digm Monitor Series? that's up to the individual I guess. If you're getting the centre and surrounds, it can add up $$. \:\) \:\) \:\) \:\) \:\/

(-) Totem Staff/Arro; if you're more specifically into music, these are really nice, warm sounding speakers, esp I thought with Jazz. I was amazed that a relatively small 2 way speaker could sound this good. Not very efficient speakers, which for some would be a consideration, real wood cab., can be pricey \:\) \:\) \:\) \:\)

(-) Monitor Audio RS6/8; all of the positive reviews I'd heard on these speakers were correct. Natural sounding, excellent range, clarity, nicely finished real wood. 8s more bassy than the 6s. Centre and esp surrounds become $$. Excellent otherwise. \:\) \:\) \:\) \:\) \:\/

Some speakers I would have also liked to have auditioned were some of PSBs image series as well as the higher line Mirage Spkrs (OMDs).

Keep in mind, these are my opinions and feel that people should do their own auditioning and draw their own conclusions from them. My auditioning was done for a number of reasons, not the least of which, was to figure out what kind of 'sound' I liked. Through other peoples reviews, both pro and just from regular (irregular?) guys such as those on these forums, I was given alot of input (thank you!) on my quest. I did, in fact, order M80s/VP150/QS8s earlier today based in part (a large part) on those reviews. Ok, my fingers are gett'n tired of typing...
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/22/09 11:06 PM

How could you spend all of that money without listening to them first. What an idiot!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/22/09 11:10 PM

I got 'brainwashed' by the 'gang'.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/22/09 11:12 PM

Best of luck to the both of us!

Why the Paradigm sub?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/22/09 11:12 PM

It's too late for us Bob, we can only warn the unsuspecting!
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/22/09 11:16 PM

Doing the math. M80's similar in performance and sound as the Paradigm Studio 100's at $2700 for the pair.

M80's
VP150
QS8's
EP350 all from the Outlet Store $2596

All of that for less than the pair of Studio 100's.

How can we lose?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/22/09 11:32 PM

You could probably get the 100s for low $2000 if you REALLY work hard. I was quoted about $2500 CDN. What I found with a lot of other companies was that the centres and surrounds were the most marked up...the towers were usually a little more reasonable. For instance, Monitor Audio RS6 and RS8 towers are fairly competitively priced, but their surrounds are over $1000 C and the centre was I believe around $700. I was quoted over $3800 WITHOUT a SUB for RS8s, centre and surrounds!! The P'digms are nice (Studios) but the matching centre and surrounds would bring the $$ up around $5G less sub. Makes you wonder if any other companies might change their marketing structure to internet based.
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/23/09 04:42 AM

 Originally Posted By: Adrian
You could probably get the 100s for low $2000 if you REALLY work hard. I was quoted about $2500 CDN.


But aren't they made right there in Canada? I know that they were being discounted because a new model was coming out but I don't know about "low $2000. Anyway if these speakers really play then we got a good deal.
Posted by: a-rone

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/23/09 06:26 PM

First post - Not sure where to post this, hope its o.k. here. So here goes, Quick question on the finish of the speakers. Are the standard finishes a veneer or vinyl?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/23/09 06:31 PM

Standard finishes are vinyl. The VaSSallo finishes are veneer.

Generally, it's best to start your own thread (particularly around this thread...)
Posted by: a-rone

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/23/09 06:35 PM

 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
Standard finishes are vinyl. The VaSSallo finishes are veneer.

Generally, it's best to start your own thread (particularly around this thread...)


Thanks, I'll do that next time (start my own thread that is).
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/23/09 10:09 PM

 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
Standard finishes are vinyl. The VaSSallo finishes are veneer.

Generally, it's best to start your own thread (particularly around this thread...)


Yeah but I thought we were shooting for 300 on this thread.
Posted by: Klugger

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/23/09 10:34 PM

Yeah nobody ever Hijacks threads around here.....LOL
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/25/09 06:21 PM

 Originally Posted By: Klugger
Yeah nobody ever Hijacks threads around here.....LOL

Yahh! I hate when people keep changing the subjects on these threads...say, anybody been watching '24' this season?
Posted by: BoB/335

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/25/09 11:47 PM

I'm confused where to place this so it might as well be here.

Had some family over today and showed the blown-up pics of the M80's in Boston Cherry and Mansfield Beech. Boston Cherry was unanimous. However, my nephew-in-law couldn't understand why I would get such big speakers when I could get the "creme de la creme" Bose. I didn't even try to explain.
Posted by: grunt

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/26/09 12:09 AM

When you get your M80s invite them back over and let the M80s do the explaining. ;\)
Posted by: Worfzara

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/26/09 09:29 AM

You know the saying, "No highs, no lows, it must be ..."

I don't know if I agree with this statment 100%, but you get the idea.

pn
Posted by: Wid

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/26/09 09:46 AM


He'll understand when he hears them.
Posted by: Murph

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/26/09 09:50 AM

or you drop one on his foot.
Posted by: 80'sMan

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/26/09 10:06 AM

 Originally Posted By: BoB/335
However, my nephew-in-law couldn't understand why I would get such big speakers when I could get the "creme de la creme" Bose. I didn't even try to explain.

Like car buff's (like myself) say about our classic rides . . .
There's no replacement for displacement!
;\)
Like car buffs (like me) say about our muscle cars . . .
There's no replacement for dispacement!

If you want performance, you don't go shopping for some tiny gas miser of a car, you get yourself an LS6 454 with a 800-cfm Holley four-barrel on an aluminum manifold, 11.25:1 compression, solid lifters, four-bolt mains, forged steel crank and connecting rods, forged aluminum pistons, and deep-groove accessory pullies.
Then you'll make beutiful music!!!

Posted by: Murph

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/26/09 10:12 AM

That's what she said.
Posted by: 80'sMan

Re: Why Axiom??? - 01/26/09 10:12 AM

DELETE - double post.