looking to buy

Posted by: fbcoach

looking to buy - 01/29/09 11:01 PM

hey everyone noowbie here i was hopeing someone could help me out, i'm looking to buy some speakers soon and they will be axiom but i dont know what is best. my rm size is 13x20 avr 805 i was thinking m60,150,Qs8(4)what do you guys think?
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: looking to buy - 01/29/09 11:04 PM

I think that's a fantastic choice. Will you be adding a subwoofer later on?


Oh, and some people here will probably try to upsell you to the M80s. Apparently the M80s turn you into an evangelist.
Posted by: fbcoach

Re: looking to buy - 01/29/09 11:05 PM

i already have one
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: looking to buy - 01/29/09 11:06 PM

Even better.
Posted by: fbcoach

Re: looking to buy - 01/29/09 11:10 PM

thanks,how about having 4 QS 8 would that be a problem or should i get 2 m3
Posted by: CV

Re: looking to buy - 01/29/09 11:14 PM

How much space are you going to have behind you to play with for rear speaker placement?
Posted by: fbcoach

Re: looking to buy - 01/29/09 11:16 PM

not much i have a window behind my couch
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: looking to buy - 01/29/09 11:17 PM

Where are you sitting in relationship to the rear walls? HT or Music listening % ? For side surrounds you definately want to go with Q's and if you have the room Q's in the back work great. Some prefer bookshelf speakers for the rears if they listen to SACD and other multi channel music. I think the Q's do well for both HT and music.
Posted by: fbcoach

Re: looking to buy - 01/29/09 11:22 PM

thanks again, i have made up my mind and will be placing my order tonite
Posted by: CV

Re: looking to buy - 01/29/09 11:24 PM

I probably wouldn't even get the rear surrounds if you have that window directly behind you.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: looking to buy - 01/29/09 11:37 PM

I agree, if your right up against the back wall with a window, the rear surrounds may not have enough seperation behind you to help much.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 04:53 AM

One more for no rear channels, you need a little breathing room to take advantage on those extra channels, 5.1 is really all you should need.
Posted by: fbcoach

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 08:25 AM

Most people agree that the rear surrounds need to be directional or direct firing speakers. I'm ok with this, but I still feel I don't get the sound "envelopment" that I've heard from really good speaker setups.

I like what I've read about the QS8's and it seems that they are somewhat of a combination between being direct firing and diffuse/dipole type sounding. I may be wrong, but that's the general impression I'm getting.

Can someone tell me more about the type of sound that these speakers are capable of? Thanks@!
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 09:52 AM

Your impression of the QS8 are pretty accurate. They are amazing, no doubt.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 10:35 AM

Coach, actually no, the surrounds AND rears should envelope you in the sound, like the Q's will give you. Direct Radiating speakers are only good if your in the sweet spot. Again, for multi channel music listening, bookshelfs are sometimes preferred, for HT you want something like the Q's will give you. So MOST people don't agree that the rears should be bookshelfs, depends on how your going to use them.

The perception of how a speakers sounds varies from person to person. The Q's are fabulous speakers for HT and music, you will hear things you've never heard before. Keep in mind the rear channels don't have a lot of action unless your using DDPLIIx or the new HD formats.
Posted by: RickF

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 10:44 AM

I'd take the money saved from the rear surrounds and upgrade to the M80s if it were me. \:\)

::runs away laughing::
Posted by: Wid

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 10:46 AM


Good idea Rick \:\)
Posted by: merchman

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 10:54 AM

I must agree with you Rick and Rick.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 11:22 AM

Good idea, Rick and Rick. That 805 should be fine with the M80s I would think (rated at 130 wpc I believe) wink, wink!!
Posted by: jakewash

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 01:28 PM

Add one more to the M80 scenario.

I also agree with Randy's (Sirquack) advice. I will add that I find in a large room or if you are at least able to get some breathing space between that last row of seats and the rear channels you can use direct radiating speakers as there will be enough room to allow natural dispersion to work, the closer back to the rear channels you move the better a multi-firing speaker, like the QS series will work. What you don't necessarily want is for the rear channel to be mounted right above you, as the sounds are meant to be coming from behind you, but I think this could be more of a personal preference.
Posted by: dewd

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 03:44 PM

OK, gotta be the voice of sanity here \:\)

The M60's will be fine in your room. I have M60's in a similarly sized room, connected to an Onkyo 705. I agree with going 5.1 instead of 7.1 if you don't have room behind your listening area.

BTW - I have 4 QS8's for my 7.1 setup and I really like it. However, I did have direct speakers for my rears in the past and I liked that as well.
Posted by: fredk

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 05:41 PM

 Originally Posted By: dewd
Blah blah blah... sanity... blah blah. \:\)

Are you sure you're in the right place? ;\)
Posted by: fbcoach

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 05:52 PM

i just ordered the 2xm60,4xQs8,1x150 and two stands for the Qs8 thanks for two all that help
Posted by: fredk

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 05:56 PM

Nice! Come back and post your impressions when its all set up.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 06:10 PM

And don't forget to post some pics as well!! We love audio porn here.
Posted by: RickF

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 06:44 PM

 Originally Posted By: fbcoach
i just ordered the 2xm60,4xQs8,1x150 and two stands for the Qs8 thanks for two all that help


That's going to make a killer setup for you, the 60s are extremely nice speakers and I'm betting you'll be very happy.

Congrats!
Posted by: LT61

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 10:52 PM

Welcome to the M60's Club.....Congrats!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 11:06 PM

You've just made Larry a very happy man.
Posted by: LT61

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 11:13 PM


Posted by: Wid

Re: looking to buy - 01/30/09 11:24 PM

 Originally Posted By: RickF


That's going to make a killer setup for you, the 60s are extremely nice speakers and I'm betting you'll be very happy.

Congrats!


That's why you keep yours in the closet \:D \:D
Posted by: fbcoach

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 11:35 AM

hi guys my speakers are here and i'm trying to get them right can someone please help or my wife are going to make me send them back. i'm useing audyssey and it set the speakers crossovers to m60=150 m150=60 Qs8 90 / 100 is this right?
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 11:37 AM

No, that's pretty wrong. The M60s should be crossed at 80 or less. Are you sure that all the drivers are working properly? (as in, stick your ear up to each one of them and make sure they're running). What often happens is that the straps between the upper and lower binding posts get disconnected, resulting in either no bass or no treble (depending on which set of binding posts the cables are hooked to. Sounds like you're missing the bass on the 60s.

Can you go into more detail on what's wrong?
Posted by: fbcoach

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 11:54 AM

well i reran audyssey and this time it set everything this way m60=150 m150=60 Qs8 90/120. i'm nwe it this stuff but i'm trying to keep these speakers but say for the money thingss must get better
Posted by: CV

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 12:00 PM

I wouldn't trust Audyssey's crossover settings.
Posted by: fbcoach

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 12:00 PM

i dont think the drivers are working, how if i can fix this problem?
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 12:01 PM

 Quote:
thingss must get better


As I'm sure they will. Something's not right if that's where Audyssey set things.

Check the pieces of metal on the back between the four binding posts (where the speakers connect) and make sure they're connected.
Posted by: fbcoach

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 12:03 PM

they are
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 12:04 PM

And you put your ears up to each driver while playing full-range music?

Turn off Audyssey and set your speakers to "large".
Posted by: fbcoach

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 12:09 PM

i'm asumming that will be full band on my 805 correct
Posted by: Murph

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 12:12 PM

I agree with Mark. Unless you turn Audyssey (or any form of equalization,) off, you are not critically listening to the speakers but to speakers being drastically effected by whatever frequency modifications it chooses to add. This has the potential to slightly, but often drastically, alter the sound.

I'm not saying that you can't tweak Audyssey later on or that something else might mot also be wrong, but to truly evaluate the speakers themselves, you should first listen to what they sound like in their more pure, unaltered form.

In my M60 setup, in my particular room, I was extremely unhappy with the results that Audyssey would invoke on the sound. I tried many variations of setup and tweaking but it always appeared thin on vocals, lacking bass, and the highs sounded dull. I have an admittedly reflective room but it seemed to have overreacted. I turned it off and never looked back.

For others, it might be a blessing, but my first listen to any new speaker would always be to listen to it alone to at least get a baseline before attempting to tweak.
Posted by: fbcoach

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 12:17 PM

i turn audyssey off for now should i crossover everything to 80hz noe or leave it the way audyssey set them
Posted by: Murph

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 12:23 PM

Another thing I did once that 'destroyed' my sound quality was to somehow accidentally switch my Denon's preset EQ settings from "off" to "Flat". Despite what the name implies, flat is not the same as off, It was so dull it sounded like a single speaker radio.

Just another example of why you should turn off all sound altering effects to start your evaluation process and then go from there.

After that and checking for broken drivers or connections, as per above, then maybe the Axioms are just not for you. I can't give my own enough praise but in the end you should go for the sound that makes your preferences the happiest. Nothing wrong with having your own personality, otherwise we'd all be boring clones.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 12:33 PM

Hello fbcoach,

You should not be using a crossover of 150 for the M60's. That is way to high.

For simplicity purposes I recommend you use a crossover of 80 for all your speakers including your subwoofer to start. Let us know how that sounds and if you notice a big difference.

Posted by: fbcoach

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 12:53 PM

i had a bindind post losse on one of the speakers so i'm rerunning audyssey to see what happens next
Posted by: fbcoach

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 12:58 PM

can someone please tell me what will be a good crossover m60,m150,Qs8
Posted by: alan

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 01:08 PM

Hi fbcoach,

Please turn off the Audyssey auto-EQ and setup. It is very error-prone and will often degrade the sound quality of otherwise excellent neutral speakers like Axioms.

If you are using a subwoofer, set the M60s, M150 and QS8s all to "Small" and use an 80-Hz crossover frequency (set it in your AV receiver). Turn the subwoofer crossover control to "Bypass" if it has such a setting, or if not, set the crossover control on the subwoofer itself to its maximum setting (150 Hz?) because you are using the crossover in the AV receiver and you do not want to cascade crossovers.

Play music with lots of bass, midrange and cymbals to check that each driver in each M60 is working; put your ear close at moderate volume and listen. If any of the drivers aren't working call the Axiom toll-free number and one of our Audio Experts will tell you how to fix the problem.

Regards,
Posted by: Argon

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 05:07 PM

I have seen advice both ways in the demo videos here on the Axiom site on how to set the M60's - small or large. I am confused?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: looking to buy - 03/20/09 10:50 PM

Coach, you said "I don't think the drivers are working", but there's been no follow-up on that possibility. Don't worry about Audyssey yes or no at this point. You may eventually find it to be very helpful, but for now check that all the woofers are in fact operating. The far too high 150Hz M60 setting indicates that they may not be. Take the connecting strips off of the speaker terminals and connect your speaker wire just to the bottom terminal(which powers the woofers). See if you get a bassy sound from each M60 when you do this.

An 80Hz crossover for the M60s, VP150 and QS8s would all be reasonable.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: looking to buy - 03/21/09 05:42 AM

Argon, you can set the M60s to either small or large depending on how you like them, most start out with the usual THX recommended 80 hz crossover and speakers set to all speakers set to small. This cuts out the frequencies below 80 hz from being sent to all the speakers and redirects it to the sub which can play this low with more linear reproduction of the sound than most speakers are capable of.

The mains can then be set to large or small depepnding on how want them to sound. If you want to add more bass to the front soundstage, then drop the crossover for the mains to 40 or 60.

If you want to run the mains full range with no cut off at all then run the mains as large. When the speakers are set to large the processor does not cut any frequencies from them, so only a very good full range speaker should be set this way and it helps alot if you have a very stout amp to push the power out to them, as bass frequencies eat up alot of power.

You can also set up the receiver to send bass to the sub while the mains are set to large by using, LFE+Mains, if you have a Denon receiver or double bass, or something similar depending on your avr. This then sends the frequencies below the crossover point set on the mains to the sub, as well as the mains still receiving a full signal; the crossover does not remove those frequencies from the mains as it does when the speakers are set to small.

It is late, does this make sense?
Posted by: Argon

Re: looking to buy - 03/21/09 08:30 AM

Jake,
It makes perfect sense. I am planning to get the M60s - so I think my first try will be to set them to large and have the signal go LFE+Mains and see how I like it. I have a Yamaha 663 receiver that I think could drive the speakers satifactorily. As far as cranking them, that would rarely happen - neighbors are not an issue and I am mostly interested in getting the detail. I am ignorant enough of good speakers that I don't even know what "detail" means or sounds like - but I am determined to find out. I am struggling on the purchase decision - I could swing the factory outlet now but I would love the real wood of the Vassaillo series...
Posted by: jakewash

Re: looking to buy - 03/21/09 02:56 PM

 Originally Posted By: Argon

I would love the real wood of the Vassaillo series...
Wouldn't we all but the cost savings win me over everytime, i am more interested in the sound and to have this kind of sound for much less than other speakers is great.
Posted by: Argon

Re: looking to buy - 03/21/09 06:51 PM

yeah....I PM'd Zimm on the veneer project he has tackled. Waiting to hear back from him. Out of curiosity, what finish do most of the guys have around here?
Posted by: Adrian

Re: looking to buy - 03/21/09 07:00 PM

I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of people choose either Black or Boston Cherry in the standard finish. I have no proof or facts to back that up, but these days who cares about such trivialities?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: looking to buy - 03/21/09 09:41 PM

Boston Cherry.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: looking to buy - 03/22/09 12:13 AM

Trying to think about all the pics I have seen, I think it is evenly distributed among Black, Boston Cherry and Beech. I am of the minority with Light Maple.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: looking to buy - 03/22/09 01:07 AM

Vermont Maple, Mansfield Beech, and HG Burled Walnut.
Posted by: DaveG

Re: looking to buy - 03/22/09 08:52 AM

High gloss cherry and Boston cherry.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: looking to buy - 03/22/09 11:51 AM

I got lucky and took advantage of the owner's club and got my QS8s in natural cherry. My M3s are in the high gloss burled walnut.
Posted by: Zimm

Re: looking to buy - 03/23/09 06:11 PM

 Originally Posted By: Argon
yeah....I PM'd Zimm on the veneer project he has tackled. Waiting to hear back from him. Out of curiosity, what finish do most of the guys have around here?


I hit you back on the PM. If your wife wants black, I would do that with no finish or the "ready to paint" finish if you plan to add a custom veneer in the short term.
Posted by: davekro

Re: looking to buy - 03/23/09 07:06 PM

Beech, baby, beech! (when they get here that is ;o)
Posted by: Argon

Re: looking to buy - 03/23/09 07:11 PM

Zimm,
Got the PM and I e-mailed several of the questions that I formulated after doing a little web search on Veneer. I may just go with the black now since these will be in the bonus room - if we ever end up putting them out in the main room, I may do the project. I may do it anyway or at least do some practice on something else. Incidently, I thought I has seen the paintable finish option but couldn't locate it a bit ago?.......Argon
Posted by: Zimm

Re: looking to buy - 03/24/09 12:15 PM

You can't go wrong with that. I got many years of use from the factory black ash before I did the refinishing project. Looking at my sub again after my email, I was reminded how easy the square project was was. My pics don't show detail at the low res, but you can change the way the system looks with dramatic affect. Black box to mahogany box, presto!

Posted by: Ascension

Re: looking to buy - 03/25/09 11:59 AM

That is some beautiful work you did there Zimm! I like it a lot!!
Posted by: Zimm

Re: looking to buy - 03/25/09 02:56 PM

Well thank you. The pics don't do the work any favors, but I'm happy with the result. Generally enjoyed it.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: looking to buy - 03/25/09 03:41 PM

Charles, did you have any problems going around/removing drivers or binding posts ect. ?
Posted by: Zimm

Re: looking to buy - 03/26/09 06:10 PM

No, I skipped "planned around" that problem. I did not cover the front of any of the speakers. The PSB front baffle is a curved rigid plastic with detailing, so I could leave it alone. On the sub, I decided that the grill stays one 99% of the time, so I could avoid removing the driver and just left the black front baffle.

The driver part is not an impediment, just another step. But one I avoided.
If anyone had not seen it, you can see more at Build