I've been reading extensively on various forums for a few months now trying to decide which speakers to buy to upgrade from my htib. At first I had settled on PSB Image T45's, C40, and B15's for surrounds but my local dealer quoted me way higher than what other people in canada were being quoted and now I'd prefer not to do business with him (I can get them shipped from the states and pay shipping, duty, taxes and it still comes to less than his quote).

I went to another store to audition some paradigm and klipsch products but the only ones that I thought sounded any good were the paradigm studio 100's... a little out of my price range, unfortunately. They didn't have the studio 60's but I heard all the monitor line and was not very impressed for the price.

This brings me to axiom. I've read all the threads, reviews, comparisons and they seem to fit the description of what I'm looking for in a speaker. Detailed, transparent, accurate. However, I do have a concern about many people's descriptions of the highs on the axioms, bright, shrill, harsh...

Now I do know that one person's "harsh" is the next person's "accurate" and that it generally seems to be the same few people that are continually propagating these claims. On the other hand, the only people I ever see defending and recommending axiom are the most prolific posters on axioms own forums. On all the threads where axiom is mentioned over at avsforum, audioholics, hometheatershack, etc, it's always the same few people defending axiom: jakewash, sirquack, grunt, are always recommending axiom, but no one else. This puts up a huge red flag for me. Are these posters being compensated by axiom to continually defend and recommend axiom products? Why do no other owners step up to defend or recommend axiom? These guys all have thousands of posts on axioms forums so it's hard to take their opinion as non biased.

Having said that, I would also like to express my thanks for the various comparisons you (the axiom community) have documented, biased as they may be, they've been very helpful to me.

I'll likely be ordering the M22's, VP100, and QS8's for a 1400 cu ft room. I'll be running an svs pb10 sub and denon 989 receiver.

I truly hope I don't offend anyone with this post. I just thought I'd point out this pattern I've seen and wanted to bring it up.

Thanks.

While several of us have received various prizes for contest wins from Axiom, and Axiom does have a program which gives gift certs to people who host auditions in their home, no one here (to my knowledge) is compensated monetarily by Axiom for posting positive reviews, here or anywhere else.

I'd say that the main reason you see this is that the naysayers don't own Axioms, haven't heard them, or did own them and preferred something else. It's certainly possible that there are a few that had negative experiences with either customer support, shipping, or some other incident. Axiom owners are naturally enthusiastic about their own possessions.

Quite frankly I have neither the time nor patience for those other forums. Axioms are a top notch speaker brand as are so many others, to many to list. If you are looking for the characteristics in your speakers you mention I believe you will be pleased with your choice.

I ditto Ken's sentiments. The majority of people who purchase Axiom speakers become fans and will evangelize about them if given the opportunity. Part of what you're seeing on other forums is an attempt by Axiom owners to counter some of the bashing Axiom wrongly receives.

I'm not sure -you want to take my word for it since I have more posts on this forum than anyone else.

I have been here since 04' and only have a few hundred posts.....this means my many Axiom M60s reccomendations over the years, are spot on........green flag on the M60's!

I don't own Axiom LCR, (I use PSB) but I don't think what you are reading is due to any compensation or even blind loyalty. Problem is, speaker sound is very subjective. Once you hit a certain point of quality, all the basics of performance are covered and it’s a comparison of characteristics. Those characteristics are highly influenced by listening rooms, music preferences, etc. So people - like the people you name - that have great setups and love their systems know for a fact the Axioms sound great - to them in their systems with their music. You can’t blame them for stating same when non-owners and never-have-listed’ers claim they are inaccurately harsh. It’s the blog age, most opinions are formed from reading an opinion – it is just hearsay.

But I, for one, don't like really bright speakers. For example, I often prefer silk tweeters over Ti, where possible. My PSBs can hit a note every so often that I don’t like in the upper range. So I may not be the best M80 candidate on paper, considering nothing but performance. But in the real world where cost is a factor, I would probably love the M80s as much or more than my PSBs, and just dial down the treble one notch if needed. When buying my speakers, I A/B’d speakers ranging $20K over the purchase price to get a feel for sonic changes. They were different, no doubt, but the differences don’t appear as errors in the other speakers. And given how impressed I am with the little QS8, I’d probably have to try to M80’s.

All you can do is take it all in and try to figure out the characteristics you really don't like, but after a certain price point and within certain known companies, you are safe as lemons are few and far between.

I can personally attest to the fact that Axiom owners (including the ones mentioned) have respect for other brands besides Axiom. Personally, IMHO your statement regarding those members of this forum could be taken quite personally...so! never mind what Jake, SirQ and Grunt say about Axiom speakers, go on audioreview and see what other people have to say. I don't know about you but 4.83 out of 5 is well...pretty good from that many reviewers.

Welcome to the group. The bottom line around here is that, yes, this is an Axiom sponsored forum and therefore most of us are here to talk about how much we love our Axioms. There is a certain amount of 'fanboy'-ism around here, but it's pretty light (IMHO). As someone else mentioned, we're pretty respectful of other brands (well, except Bose ). I've been here for many years and I've never come across any situation where Axiom has censored the thread to keep out bad or controversial reviews.



I started my Axiom system with a pair of M22's several years ago. When I eventually wanted to upgrade to floor-standing speakers, I sought out a Paradigm dealer to listen to the SR line, as I was specifically interested in comparing them to what I had heard in my M22's. The dealer had SR100's and SR20's. I liked the way the SR20's sounded - very much like my M22's. Clean & detailed, with a surprising amount of presence for bookshelves. I was less impressed with the SR100's. As I recall, they weren't bad, but I for the price I wasn't really blown away by them. The highs were a bit too bright for me, and the bass seemed a bit too muddy. Just a touch, anyway. And yes, they were too expensive. If you thought the SR100's sounded pretty good, I'd bet that you'd really like the way M80's sound.

If you're looking for brick-and-mortar speakers to compare to, try to find a B&W dealer. Everyone's ears and expectations are different, but to me, B&W 703's sound *very* similar to M80's. At least I think so. In my speaker shopping, this was one set of speakers that my wife & I really liked. We just couldn't stomach the price.

I bought my M80's with the intention of sending them back if they weren't what I expected. As you can probably guess, I kept them.



Ahh yes, the common criticisms. Our brains adapt to everything. Some speaker manufacturers over-emphasize the bass & midrange. This results in a 'warmer', or 'richer' sound. But sometimes they go to far, and it turns almost 'muddy'. Some people really like this quality, either because they just do or because their brains are trained to it. And that's fine. To each his/her own. But if you spend some time listening to more expensive speakers, what I've found is that the speakers become more accurate. Highs become more defined, mid-ranges become more seamless, and bass becomes strong, powerful, and extremely accurate. Cheap speakers might be all midrange; with dead highs and boomy, bloated bass.

The best example I've ever heard is in the B&W line, as I have a good full-line B&W dealer nearby. 600-series speakers have a nice and rich midrange, but the highs and lows left something to be desired. Less bass, less treble, more midrange. 700-series speakers have more bass, more treble, and less midrange. They sound much more natural and controlled. Music becomes more 'real', and the speakers more easily disappear. 800-series speakers take it to a different level, with sparkling highs, incredibly smooth & natural midrange, and amazing bass that's both tight & detailed and very powerful. Of course, the top of the 800 series are like $10,000/pair speakers. But I've heard the same thing with many speaker lines, such as Polk, Vienna Acoustics, Energy, Klipsch, Paradigm, even Sony.

In a properly set up system, the better the speakers are they more they simply vanish into the soundstage. To me, that's the hallmark of an 'excellent' speaker. So good, you don't even know it's there. Both my M22's and M80's are very good at this.

That's where Axiom shines. They're *all* accurate. From the Audiobytes to the M80's. Sure, there are subtle differences between the lines, but M22's have extremely similar sonic qualities to the M80's. The M80's just have more presence and more power. That's what makes them amazing, IMHO. There isn't a 'budget' line of sound quality. They're *all* excellent. Why? Because I don't think Axiom believes in making substandard lines at specific price points.


Oh man, I wouldn't trust any of them. Those are some of the biggest posters around here. What you've seen is the fact that they like to defend Axiom's on other boards.



We're a pretty easy-going bunch. Fights are few and far between around here. The bottom line is that the vast majority of us are extremely happy with our Axioms. That's why we're here. So you'll find a lot of happy people. Axiom seems to be a good company. Many here have toured the factory and met the employees. They seem to be genuinely good people making a genuinely good product. Sure, there are occasional problems with products. But I can't remember ever reading of a situation where Axiom didn't do everything they could to make it right.

But what should you do? My best advice is to seek out someone who lives nearby that owns Axiom speakers. Many of us are happy to give demos of our systems. There's an official list of demo sites under the 'Hearing Things' area. After all, the only way to decide if you like Axiom speakers are to hear them.

Good luck!

I would look in the Hearing Things section for someone in your area that would be willing to give you an audition. It's all a matter of personal taste as to whether you will think they are bright or not and you won't know until you try them. If you liked the Studio line of the Paradigms, you will likely enjoy the Axioms.

In this discussion and especially for a first time buyer there is a very important element which should not be underestimated. With Axiom if you don't like the speakers, you can send them back within thirty days for a FULL REFUND. As we have all known for years, speakers can sound great in the store yet sometimes not as good when you get them home. Unless you can somehow arrange something in advance, if you buy from a retailer and you don't like them, you are stuck with them.

I believe that should give you a pretty good idea as to how much confidence the company(Axiom)has in their product line.

Don't I wish I was being compensated!!!!!!

Someone has to stand up to those that spout off about things they know nothing about, and obviously I have no life other than surfing the audio forums .

If you read many of my posts I still offer support and advise people to audition many brands and pick the ones they like the best, just happens to be I like Axiom and think many are missing out on a great product due to the few that like to trash talk Axiom for no other reason than they have read it some where. For those that have heard Axiom and still did not like them, most appear too have heard them many years ago, so not a very accurate review on their part.

I have mentioned that I find Axioms to be not a smooth as Studio 100s but at half the price and almost all the same benefit of the 100s I can put up with a little edge to my music(even then it is only at loud volumes ~90db and up), sounds more like a live performance to me this way any way.

I have also recommended kef/orb/Rockets and many other products to those not wanting the 'Axiom' sound.

Anyway, as the others have mentioned, check for someone nearby to give you an audition this way you won't have to spend a dime for return shipping if you do not like the Axiom sound, although I suspect you will as you like Paradigm.

cactrot, there are more than 3 of us that support axioms on other forums. I used to be a regular on AVS but got sick of the trolls providing inaccurate feedback to people about Axiom speakers. The history, research, reviews on reputable websites, and graphs alone prove their hearsay advice to be totally false.

Axiom are the best speakers I've ever heard or owned, and that includes paradigm, klipsch, infinity, b&w, to name a few.

where do you live, maybe an in home audition is in order to put your concerns to rest.

I used to go to those other sites but got annoyed with them quickly. I find the forum here is great, informational, funny, friendly and addictive. It appears some great friendships have been made on this forum as well as people helping others out and generally caring when there's an issue audio or life related.

Find a owner to audition the speakers or order a set and they will prove themselves.

woah.. I didn't expect so many responses so quickly! Thank you very much to those who took the time to reply. I'll try to address some of the responses.

Hay, I could not have said it any better.

I just really have no patience for AVS, Audioholics, etc. I have limited time for forum-surfing, and this place just became my internet home. The fact that I own and enjoy Axiom speakers seems almost coincidental now relative to the rich relationships I've developed here. Participating in the Axiom forum brings me joy; AVS does not.

Some lucky forum members have several Axiom systems. Others, including me, still enjoy other speaker brands, too. I have Boston, Polk and Mirage speakers in other systems. My Axiom M60's are by far the best. And they were also the most expensive. And, they were also the best value.

Nobody is getting paid; we are just really like this.

But why does axiom receive said bashing? More so, it seems, than other brands... if they are truly that great at this price point, why are more people not recommending them?

haha.. I was originally going to go for the m60's but jakewash's comparison of the m80 vs m22+sub (virtually indistinguishable) convinced me to go for the m22. Plus my room is only 1400 cu ft so I don't really need the power of the towers...... yet

Alright... Ready for this... I think the Axiom's I own are bright as well. That's what the tone adjustment on my receiver is for. Turned the treble back just a hair and now I'm as happy as can be.

I occasionally post on AVS and I'm a regular on HTF. I don't always recommend Axiom - it depends on budget and goals. But I can only recommend what I know - what I owned, own, or would like to own. That means Axiom!

Sure you do. You just don't realize it yet. Give the disease a chance, you will upgrade.

Honestly, with most of the comments of "harshness" I felt this was the case; people just repeating something they had read elsewhere. There were a few accounts, however, where people claimed to have ordered them and sent them back because of the "harshness" at higher volumes.



This is exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm not the type of person to read one review and spend thousands of dollars based on it. I've spent months reading every review I could find of various axiom products (as well as many others) and searching through forums for various listeners personal experiences. Although this is my first foray into a real sound system, I feel I have a pretty good grasp of what I want from a speaker and I think I'll know if axiom is right for me as soon as I hear them.

Yes, I know they respect other brands, which is more than I can say for most of the folks over at the polk forums

Thanks for this awesome post. Much appreciated. I think many people's descriptions of "bright" and "harsh" are due to today's obsession with bass heavy music and thumping car stereos. When someone goes from hearing that to a truly accurate speaker with a rich high end, they find it "harsh". Just my opinion, of course.

yes, I've read many times how similar they are. Also, when I auditioned them side by side with some klipsch (which everyone says are even "brighter" than axioms due to their horn tweeter) I didn't find them to be much less bright than the klipsch. Maybe I didn't listen to them long enough to be "fatiguing"... or maybe I just like a bright sounding speaker, I usually find "warmer" sounding speakers a little muddy, to be honest.



I agree with this for sure. I asked the paradigm dealer about in home trials and he basically said I could return them within seven days if I wanted but it's certainly not encouraged as a 'trial' period.

Hey, I get no money from Axiom, no perks, no free stuff, and let me say that the good things that you've heard about Axiom's are true. I would be happy to make a post on those forums since I am a member of all of those forums. I just find that at some of them (IE AVS) just has too many "weeds" to wade through to make most discussions worth while. I do subscribe to several home theater build threads, and some other areas, but the constant "pissing matches" in some of the equipment threads (receiver brands, speaker brands, projectors, etc) has kept me out of those areas.

The other forums are better, but I just don't have time to be on THAT many forums (I have many other hobbies too that I try to keep up on)...

Hi Jason! I was hoping I'd get a reply from you since I see you posting on other forums more than anyone else here (unless they post under different names ;).

I have read your posts recommending other products instead of axiom and I think you're very honest. I did really like the sound of the studio 100's but, like I said, they're out of my price range. When you say there's a "little edge" to the music on the m80's when turned up over 90db, do they become unlistenable at this volume? Do they become sibilant? How about when listening to the m22s at that volume? I don't listen loud very often but I'd like to be able to crank them (m22s) up once in a while.

I have looked for a local audition but it seems there are no owner's in my area (north okanagan, bc.. about five hours east of vancouver). However, I have not contacted axiom directly, as many people have recommended. I think I'd rather listen to them with my own set up in my own room anyway.. hopefully I won't have to return them. I'm pretty sure I'll keep the QS8's, anyway, as they seem to be universally praised.

I'm probably one of the newest Axiom owners on the board--considering that I don't actually "own" them yet, that'll happen on Monday or Tuesday.

At this point I can only testify to the other owners and not the product. Though that's one thing I've already found to be very special. I lurked this forum for about a week before I placed my order (having researched the speakers anywhere I could find them mentioned on Google). With only reading the posts here, I felt very at ease with making my purchase; like others have iterated this forum isn't like many of the other A/V boards out there.

Still, I was reluctant to mention what other non-Axiom equipment I own, because of how I've been treated in other places. Though I've since come around, and not one person jumped on me at all. No comments about an underpowered receiver, or even hints that I should have bought something else. Heck, on some of the maker-agnostic boards if you don't have the exact same setup as the person who is reading your post you must be a complete idiot who just likes throwing money away (except here, apparently everyone is eventually required to own M80s ).

So yeah, I expected the people here to recommend Axioms--that's why they are here. But in just a few days, I've seen plenty of open-mindedness toward mixing and matching what ever works for a particular person's ears, room or budget. And if the speakers are as good as everyone seems to report, it is no wonder they get recommended elsewhere by owners. Though that's yet to be seen (heard) by me; Tuesday can't come soon enough!

Just so you know, the M80's "4 ohm posse" has been getting carried away.........it's actually the M60s that are required.

Not even close Larry, you just don't listen

It's all good, whatever speakers you choose to go with M22s, 60s or 80s. ( ) {secret code to M80 owners for meeting about possible M60 uprising}

Yeah! Long live the M60 crew!

Seriously though, the M80s (since that is what you are talking about Cactrot) can handle a lot of "volume" both in the size of the room and the amount of watts put through them. Your mind will explode from the sure dB levels and your house will be shaking (without a sub even) before the M80s start to show any signs of distortion (and yes, ALL speakers distort at some point)... Axioms are that good. (maybe I should use another set of parenthesis again. oops)

Are they better than everything out there? Nope. Nobody has ever said that, but they are really good and for the price you are getting a bargain at the same time.

Cactrot, where are you in the North Okanagon? I'm in Merritt with M22's and an EP350 that I will gladly audition for you!

Say what you will about the others but avsforum is awesome. Sure, smaller boards have a much more personal feel to them but if you're after a wide variety of opinions and discussions on any and every av topic imaginable, then avs is where its at. If it wasn't for that site I would have never even heard of axiom!

Cactrot, tell him to keep his shoes on.

You just want someone to bring you beer!

Just kidding.. I certainly appreciate the offer and did see you in the list of owners willing to audition. I'm in armstrong, about ten minutes north of vernon. I'm just gonna order them and audition them in my own room, the cost of return shipping would probably be less than the gas to get to merritt and back! and I'm hoping I won't want to return them anyway.

lol.. I'll keep that in mind.

than you can join the few, the proud, the Axiomites on AVSforum, there are more than 3 of us over there by the way.

I know that I wasn't quoted in this response, but as one of the original members on AVS (back before the whole site loss and re-sign up for everyone) it was one of my favorite places. I just stay away from the areas where the nitwits post (just a few bad apples in some of the forum areas really spoils it). If you are still able to wade through the little bit of crap and find the good stuff over there, it IS a good resource. I just have better things to do with my life, so I just steer clear of those areas that like to bash products without any knowledge of them just because they aren't what is the current "flavor of the month" or what a particular member thinks is the best.

I think that is the general feeling of a lot of people, even people from the other forums you mention seem to share this feeling about AVS. It was bound to happen since they are the biggest A/V forum out there, and while it wasn't always that way, it has grown big enough that the "riff-raff" was bound to get in.

Come now, its not required, just highly recommended by the really cool people.

If someone started an M22 crew, JohnK would be the boss and I'd be his sidekick.

I would weep for the M50 posse, but I like my M80s more.

Now, THAT'S Funny!

Yeah, Peter; it's surprising how many failed to grasp the clear hint Ian and Amie gave when they chose to appear with the award-winning true Axiom flagships for their only known public photo in Vegas .

Cactrot, I'd say go ahead and order the speakers you listed in the post that started this thread:

"I'll likely be ordering the M22's, VP100, and QS8's for a 1400 cu ft room. I'll be running an svs pb10 sub and denon 989 receiver."

I'm running the M22's, VP100, and QS8's in a much larger room with an SVS PCI 25-31 sub and Pioneer VSX-45 receiver. I've never heard the M22's sound distorted, but I have heard my wife yell to turn it down!

I really like the M22's and the QS8's, but I'm not sold on the VP150. I'd prefer an M22 center but no way to position it. If you have room below the screen I suggest using an M22 center.

Bill

I think you would see more people reccomending them, Its just that alot of us just dont see the need to be known as the forum axiom fanboy. Ive stopped saying "check out axiom so and so" on forums for quite a while now because i get tired of reading other people doing the same thing for everything else under the sun just because they own it. There are certainly better speakers out there, and most definetly worse ones. From what I have seen what gets constantly reccomended on forums is sort of a flavor of the month and also varies from forum to forum.

When I was shopping, I was looking for bookshelves and listened to everything I could find. The pair the stood out over all the others were the Paradigm studio 20s. Based on all my research I rolled the dice and ordered the m22s. If money were no object, I probably would have returned them and bought the studio 20s, but to me, the m22s sounded very similar and for less than have the price the value couldn't be beat.

I'm not the only one that has compared the Axioms to the Studio series.

I didn't audition any of the floor standers, but my suspicion is that the Studio 100s would be comparable to the m80s.

I can see what you're saying but I still think it's an immensely valuable resource simply because it is so popular. You get a wide variety of opinions from all across the spectrum as well as a vast amount of technical knowledge.

That's really good to know. And I trust your opinion considering you only have fourteen posts in more than four years registered here

So you've turned them up fairly loud and never heard any sign of sibilance or distortion from the tweeter?

I do think the m22s and qs8s will work well in my room. I won't be able to use an m22 for a center, unfortunately. And I plan on adding a second pb10 down the road.

Very good point, well taken.

Cactrot
If you're worried about distortion from the M22's, don't worry. Mine have been cranked up on occasion with no distortion whatsoever. Now seeing as though you will have a VP100 and some QS8's I might need to hear them sometime if possible, they are on my upgraditis list.

Beer,in Merritt? We make and drink clear beer!

And to you who didn't like my socks in the pics. They are grey socks. You easterners probably all wear white socks.

That was only because of the airline's 50 lb weight limitation for luggage.

From my experience concerning the m80's I think they actually sound better when you give them some juice, they really start to sing at round 90 db, as long as you feed them clean power, and that is the real key.

For the record, my fav. speaker is the B&W 703. To me it's a perfect speaker (nuff said), if you can afford it and it's matching siblings (center and rears). At more than twice the price of the M80's however, it is greatly over priced and in many ways you are paying for the name. I found the M80's a very very close match to the 703, without the heafty price tag and allowed me to stay married. LOL.

paul

Yeah, yeah, yeah... Whatever. Those socks are gray just like my undies are brown.

Touche'

Bill,
Brand new to thread today and chomping to pull the trigger on:
M60, VP150, QS8 surr, M2 7.1 backs. I can not consider trying to be accepted as a plebe into the (secret ) M80 club because my Denon 1909 90wpc, precludes that, er, honor(???).

Iv'e heard another guy over on AVS mention M2 as a better center than the VP150. Any problem laving the m2 on it's side as a center? What exactly are issues that some may have with the VP150 for the center? I'd guess most feel the 150 is best for center and great. I'd just like to hear the (center) M2 fan's reason for their preference. Especially since I may place my order tomorrow!

Also, I have not be enable to find comments on how people have been satisfied about buying from the factory outlet. What kind of blems are common? Anything real obvious like torn or broken spkr covers? The only Axiom quality negative I've heard, is that the spkr covers seem a bit cheap. I can be careful, so not a deal breaker for me. Is the buying from the factory outlet a no brainer where the blems are hardly noticeable?
tks, Dave
Thanks, Dave

I bought my enitre Epic 80/500 from the factory 2nd's. That was almost 5 years ago. I still can't find the blemish on any of the speakers.

paul

The reason I didn't buy from the Factory Outlet is impatience. Otherwise, going by all accounts, I would have had no trouble buying from there.

I wouldn't put the M2 on its side. It was designed to be vertical, just as the 100 and 150 were designed for horizontal dispersion. I've never found the VP150 lacking, so I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it, but I do plan on trying a vertical center (or centers) down the road. If you can accommodate the height of the vertical M2, I'd go that way. Otherwise, I think you'll be served well by the VP150.

Dave, keep in mind that some people choose a bookshelf(s) due to space restrictions over the VP100 and VP150. Some use a bookshelf below and one above their screens, but in many cases(not all) it is about space restrictions: Alan at Axiom, in fact uses this setup in his NY apt. I asked a similar question a few weeks ago on the forums (M22s vs VP150 as centre) and for the most part, I think more by default, because many haven't tried using bookshelfs for centres, the choice was the VP150 but there are several members who liked/preferred the bookshelf setup too. If you're seriously considering the M2 as a centre, I would contact Alan by pm/email and get his input.

Dave, when I said I'm not sold on the 150 it may be my set-up. I have a 52" LCD on a long low (18" high) BDI stand. There is only one glass shelf under it and I have the 150 there. I did just turn the 150 over recently so that it tilts up toward the listener position and it seems a bit better now. The M22 front tweeters are pretty much at the level of the TV screen center. When I ran "phantom center" in the past it sounded better to me. There are just my impressions.

Have you tried the 150 above the TV?

I have wondered if there is an on top of TV mounting solution sold for a center on top of a large DLP? Mine is a 73" Mits. where the screen is 61" high and only 3" thick at the top. mtg on top would likely make the TV even more dominating in the room(not a plus with the WAF). Now I have the center on the glass shelf of the OEM cabinet.

Omnimount makes a center channel shelf that sits on top of a DLP-shaped set. Sanus makes one too.

No Mark I haven't tried the 150 above the TV. It might sound better there. I also thought about putting the LCD stand on a 3" riser so that I could set the center on the same shelf as the TV.

I turned recently it over to take advantage of the tilt provided by the cabinet top (a suggestion from another thread). I think that's the best combination of sound and appearance for me.

Bill

Dave: I sent you PM a couple of hours ago...(in case your little envelope isn't flashing)...

Not that it sounds like you are going this direction, but I moved my center from under to over my 50" DLP and it did improve the clarity of vocals. I built a shelf from the wall that "levitates" over the TV by a fraction of an inch. The shelf is thinner than the center so it is not very obvious from the side, and invisible from the front (if the TV is in the right spot). The improvement was not dramatic, but noticeable improvement in clarity/detail at lower levels was obtained.

Let me know if you want detailed pics as I think I have the physics worked out (i.e., it did not fall or vibrate) but would suggest one change in the design.

By a little edge, as I said, it sounds more like live music. I find that when I am listening to live music at loud volumes, rock concerts, etc. the M80s give that edgy sound you find at these venues, is it hard to listen to? Some people find it hard, I don't. I just keep cranking up the volume, the harshness or brightness or what ever you want to call it, really doesn't bother me. I do find some source material to be offensive when it is a poor recording, but I just don't listen to them as loud and they still sound very good and then there are those recordings that you just don't want to listen to at all.

You sound like me in that many other speakers that are said to be warmer etc., I find to sound muddy, muffled, less exacting, and I do not care for them as much as the Axiom detailed sound.

The M22s I think do not get as harsh/bright as the m80's at louder volumes, but it has been awhile since I really cranked up the M22's. The only way you will hear distortion from Axiom's or any other well made speaker, is due to a distorted source or trying to run too loud and the amp starts to distort.

Dave I also have a 73" Mits and use the Omnit-Mount for the VP150, these pics show the the VP100 on top but I've since swapped and placed the 150 on top with the 100 on the TV stand...

Omni-Mount

Omni-Mount

Mine came in a grey/silver finish but I painted it black to match the TV, I've always found with a single center the best placement for me with the 73" Mits was on the TV shelf below the TV, the two combined really plant the dialogue in the center of the screen ... another option you may want to consider.

(Note to self: I need to get another VP150 one of these days to have a matching pair.)

I finally got to it. I just do not understand how I keep getting so sidetracked here on these forums? (dazed, puzzled look)

Pay attention

Zimm,
I do not think I would change to my center on top of my 73" Mitsub. because it is 61" off the floor and I think this would be too bulky looking for WAF and me too. But... Being that the center is a closed spkr, does it's SQ increase being in open air (on top) vs. on the glass shelf below TV. (≈ 1" top clearance, only [3] 4"W verticle wood slats 10" behind ctr) Not enclosed.

What might cause a difference in sound sound top vs. below. Oh, forgot who I was talking to. Forget the whats/ whys. Do people generally prefer it on top or on the bottom? Wait a minute, that did not sound quite right!
I'm talkin' center speakers here people! This is a family show.

Move along, nothing to see here.

That said, pics of yours on top might be interesting. ;o)

Rick,
Very interesting. Thanks for your opinion on that with the 73" DLP that for one center, below on shelf is best. What amp / amps run your two center channels? I don't imagine you run both off one center channel output at 12 ohms do you?

I like those brackets Omni brackets though.

My thread has been hijacked!

Great answer. Thanks for responding! Now begins the inevitable wait from the factory outlet...

Dave, no they are wired in parallel into a four year old 75 wpc H/K AVR635 resulting in a 3.4 ohm load on the receiver for the two centers ... just one reason why I really like Harmon Kardon.

That happens around here every once in a great while, not too often though.

not too often, good one Rick!

If I pay attention... I will not have enough cash to pay for my speakers! ;o)

M80s?

NOOOOOO!!!! Don't be swayed to the dark side. M60's will be just fine.


Mussssttttt resissttt.... Can't stop myself. NOOOOOO! I'm looking at them. NOOOO!!! I don't have to upgrade.

SOMEONE HELP ME!

Resistance......is......futile......

No it isn't.

[your arm's off!]

No it isn't.

Wid,
What's an em8ty? Oh, It's an explosive bigger than a cherry bomb, I remember from childhood.... But we digress, we were discussing the most amazing piece of speaker technology that is Axiom's flagship: ... wait for it...

The M 6 0

small side note: Axiom does have an SUV size version of their ground breaking M60. It does not get very much attention, but if you dig deep into their website, you may find a reference to an M80. It is a fuel guzzling version of their flagship M60. Like Spinal Tap where the guy bragged his amp went to "11", some just gotta have bigger. (tongue planted firmly in cheek)
M80 owners... "Put the flame thrower down. Nothing to see here, move along!" ... consider gasoline sprayed on the fire...

M80's rocked back then, and they rock today. Rick, don't try to force the boy to the dark side.... He needs to learn with m60's first to become master.

I will have to agree with you there, SirQ. This process has definitely been a learning, growing and spending one. Maybe one day The Force will guide me bigger and better. I may already have driven my wife out of this room while I play movies. I tend, well not tend, always like to hear and feel movies at levels she does not usually care for. With the current budget and WAF, this 90 watts and M60's will likely last me until she loses her hearing. Now if my 1909 would play earphones (at a lower level for her), while the speakers sing, that might be a solution. I will try putting my headphones on her (not plugged in) to dampen the sound. I will find a work around. Maybe ear plugs. ;o)

You M80 folks are OK.... and gosh darn it, people like you!

PS. Reminds me. When the heck will Coleman concede his loss and Senator Al Franken can get to work.

Exactly between moderate and excessive there’s sophistication.
Translation:
Precisely between the M3’s mob and the M80’s posse there’s the M50’s league of extraordinary gentleman!

What's an M50? I think they are like R.O.U.S's, they don't exist.

Someone photoshop an M50 tackling Jay.

Based on fact that the M80's are 4ohm as apposed to the M60's 8ohm, wouldn't that mean the the m80's are much more fuel effecient than the M60's. They need a much more stable engine but don't need near the same power to drive them.

The M80's are more like a Hybrid, I guess.

paul

Its just a case of repressed M80 envy. It will go away as soon as he realizes he cant settle for anything less than the best.

Where's Larry?

How does that saying go? The few , the proud……M50 owners.

I believe it’s common knowledge that men with large speakers are compensating for…well, you know where I’m going with this one!

I wonder who the active M50 owners are on the boards now. Is it just you and me?

That Bose is where it's at?

Two's company, three's a crowd. It's lonely at the top!

But it's comforting to look down upon everyone at the bottom ...Larry Kersten

Fred, you are way off. My envy is in no way repressed!

Adrian,
Nice signature line...

"Everyone has a pornographic memory, some just don't have film."

Heh! Heh! that too!

With a pornographic memory, who needs film?

I have a phonographic memory. Before I can remember certain things, I have to get the dust and static off, and then the longer I spend trying to remember those things, the dizzier I get.

That's because you need to set the turntable to 33 not 78.

I read an article a while back about how to figure out whether you have a photographic memory...I just can't remember where I saw it.

Fred,
Spoken like a true connoisseur... of, er, whatever. ;o)

I actually had a teacher in highschool that had a photographic memory. When accessing his perfect memory he would do this eyes-closed-statue thing and then rattle off whatever information along with the relevant references. It was kinda wierd, but he was a really nice guy.

Well, I've had my axioms (m22s, vp100, qs8s) for a couple weeks now so I figured I should come back to post my thoughts. Hope people don't mind I bump this thread. As primarily a lurker, I appreciate when conclusions are kept within the same thread.

All the speakers were ordered from the factory outlet but I cannot seem to find any "blemishes" on them. One of the qs8s has two tiny marks on it which I guess would be considered blemishes but you can't see them unless you specifically look for them up close. The black oak vinyl finish looks fine on all speakers.

The first thing I put on was "What It Is" by Mark Knopfler (apple lossless from itunes through a digital optical connection to the denon avr-989, 2.1 stereo). WOW! Sounded incredible.. I was very impressed by the wide sound stage that the m22s created and you could easily pick out and listen to each instrument individually. The detail in the guitar and cymbals was amazing, though keep in mind that I don't have a lot of experience comparing speakers.

I cranked it up pretty loud trying to find the "harshness" that some people describe. It wasn't there. Maybe just cause it's such a good recording, I thought. So I put on "In Mist She Was Standing" by Opeth. You can certainly tell that it's an inferior recording but I still couldn't describe it as harsh, even when cranked (-10db on the 989, post audyssey).

Since then I've spent a lot of time listening to all kinds of different music (including sacd, dvd-audio, and dts-cd) at all volume levels and I just don't find these speakers "harsh" at all. I wouldn't even call them "bright" and to anyone who would describe them that way I'd say go to a concert, listen to a live band: THAT'S WHAT INSTRUMENTS SOUND LIKE!! I would think that a speaker that people would describe as more "laid back" could not be truly accurate to the recordings..

I did compare the m22s directly with a pair of older Paradigm Phantom v2s (http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/paradigm-reference/phantom/PRD_120360_1594crx.aspx). Although I felt the m22s were slightly cleaner and crisper, the phantoms definitely produced a better mid bass and therefore a "fuller" sound (obviously due to the larger drivers and larger cabinets). Comparisons were done with and without the pb10.

I've only watched a few movies so far (been spending more time listening to music) but everything I did watch sounded awesome. Dialogue was crisp, effects were great. I'm still not a hundred percent sure on the height that I mounted the qs8s. They're just over four feet off the ground and probably about eighteen inches above my ears at main listening position but the room is only thirteen feet wide so they're both fairly close to me (main listening position is about one foot forward but right between them). They seem a bit too high, despite the recommendation of up to five feet above listening position... I don't know, maybe I'm just not used to them yet.

Over all, I am very happy with all the axioms and don't plan on returning any of them. Having said that, I'm sure I will be upgrading to full tower speakers in the future. I really liked the sound of the paradigm studio 100s but at half the price, I will also be considering the m60s or m80s.

Any questions or comments are appreciated.

Glad you are enjoying them. Your comparison to the Paradigm was without the sub right? As for the Qs, why do you think they are in the wrong spot? What do you feel you are missing?

Excellent write up there Cactrot. I love that "live" sound as well especially with a lot of percussion instruments (jazz drumming )

The comparisons with the paradigms were conducted with and without a sub. I think the m22s sound pretty hollow without a sub, but comparing both with a sub I still found the paradigms had more mid bass but lacked some clarity in the high end.

About the qs8s, I don't know, I don't think I'm missing anything, they just seem too localizable from my listening position when watching movies (haven't had that problem listening to 5.1 channel audio). One thing I have noticed is that the audyssey dynamic eq on the receiver does crank up the surround channels quite a bit so I turned it off on some movies and felt it was more submersive that way.

My QS8 are pretty close to my listening position (about 6 feet) and I find I need to back the level off a few ticks from SPL leveling to make them disappear. That done, I've been very happy with them. They are exacting and invisible - although those are polar opposites. But on games, for example, you can track planes or people moving behind you with detail. But on most music it is a seamless wall behind you. In movies you get both. Mine are about 7 feet off the floor with 9 foot ceilings, and about 2 feet behind me, corner loaded; if that helps any.

Welcome to the family, dude! I completely agree with you on the "that's what instruments sound like" bit.

I agree as well, though, if you put such a revealing speaker in a highly reflective room, it will probably start to sound bright. I certainly notice that in my (highly reflective) concrete box with some music like pipe organ.

On the midrange, the M22 is a very neutral speaker. I wonder if the digms have a slight hump in the mid bass that gives it that fuller sound. People here comment on that with the M3, which does have a hump between 100Hz and 200Hz.

Nice review. Now that you've come up for air, stick around and post a little more.

So they're only about eighteen inches from the ceiling? Why would you mount them so high? Like I said, mine are only about eighteen inches above my ears and I still feel like I'm hearing sounds coming from above that should sound like they're coming from behind.

Because they sounds better there. Not being as coy as it sounds...they really do. A) That is the furthest point from the listener so localization is lessened as much as possible, as compared to inches above the ears. B) Corner loading improves the bass response as compared to mid-wall mounting. C) 'cause that is how I always see it in pics of HTs I admire, except where placement high on the wall is not feasible. Never been to a movie theater or great HT that had surrounds mounted near ear level (not that there is anything wrong with that).

Give it a try, you might like the change. If not, let us know why. I'm always up for a change.