Hi all,

So I am here for a bit of advice on the new stereo set up that I am interested in. I have read about 200 threads in this forum this weekend (and thousands in the AVS and other similar and manufacturer forums) and have a bit of an idea but need some help. I have also been researching speakers for weeks on end and I narrowed it down to SVS and Axiom. Axiom seems to have the quality, look, price, sound (I hope) that I want and are made in Canada (I am a native-born Montrealer who now lives in New York).

My budget is a bit limited to $1500, including the sub I just bought(I am moving to a new place, need new furniture plus all the other expenses get in the way). The basement that will be my AV room is 12x15x7 but is open on the side where my HT will go (L shaped room with an 8x8x7 extension, with the HT at the corner of the L, it just has to be that way).

What I have: Pioneer Elite VSX-03TXH and Hsu VTF-2 MK3 (both aching to be used).

What I am thinking of buying: M22's, M2's, VP100 (I like that they all have the same tweeters and woofers).

Will these be enough for my room? I can't really spend too much more and I am not really the type of person to buy stuff on credit just cuz credit is there (I know I can use the trade-up program later if necessary). I know about the factory seconds but it would only save me $90 on what I want and I like new stuff and it would net me less $$ if/when I trade them up later (I do have eyes on M60's with M3's as rears but I'd likely keep the M2's to put upstairs with a cheap receiver for the wife, eventually). Also, I am moving soon so I'd like to make my order 2 days before I move so it arrives at my new place in Pennsylvania when my stuff gets there as well.

So what do you pros think?

/Exhale/

PS- I can't wait to join the Axiom family!

You'll be just fine with that setup. Of course, we'd all like to see you get QS4s for surrounds instead of M2s, but if that's not where your budget goes, that's not where your budget goes.

Thanks for the quick reply!

What would the QS4's really give me over the M2's.

Oh, and usage split is Gaming 50, Music 20, TV 20, Movies 10%.

Much better surround--as the QS4s are not direct radiators (ie, you don't get the majority of the sound beaming directly out from the front of the speaker) you get a more diffuse surround field, which is what movie sound editors at least are expecting. Remember that in theatres, the surrounds are often made up of a series of speakers along the walls. That's not practical for home setups, so multipolar speakers such as the Q series or other bipolar or dipolar speakers simulate that.

But overall the surrounds are less important than the front 3 and sub, afaik. I can save $200 on surrounds now and get SQ8's later when I have been at my job for a bit and can afford them and kick the M2's upstairs for a second, small music only 2.0 system.

This is quite true. Many people come here with the idea they'll be buying their final system and MUST BUY IT ALL AT ONE TIME. So we're all kind of geared for that.

kcarlile,
I am ready to place my order tomorrow, I think.
A few last questions after ton's of research before callin' it in.
1) Is buying factory direct for an extra 10% off (above 5% off for 5 or > :o), an no brainer? Are the blems pretty much not very notieable? Or can they be pretty obvious and you are just rolling the dice on the degree of 'noticeableness' ;o). Assuming you are Ok with waiting 4wks rather than one (incl. shpg).

2) Have newbies found that Axiom is good about sending your info to local owners you specifically said you'd like to get in contact with? I understand once a possible 'shower' gets your info, they may choose not to contact you. I was interested in 2 close to me. I got an email the same day I spoke to Axiom (2/12), but they were 6 hours away. I don't know how that person got contacted. Maybe it is just that the two parties I asked for are busy with the 3-day week end.

3)Any opinions on the VP150 vs M2 as center? ANy problems wiht laying M2 on it's side?

I have a Denon 1909 (90 wpc), 31'L x 23'W great room, so need as full a sound as I can get. Looking at: M60, VP150?, QS8 surr, M2 7.1 rears (backwall is 16' behind list. pos.)
Thanks for any pointers. :o)

Mod, welcome. It appears that you have about $900 left in the speaker budget. My suggestion for the best setup for your room right now(consider an upstairs setup later)would be M22 mains with a vertical M2 center and QS4 surrounds. This totals roughly $1050 but with 10% off from the outlet plus an additional 5% off for 5 items ordered it comes down to the $900 area. The outlet speakers are in fact "new", but with a slight cosmetic defect that most of us have had difficulty in even finding, so no need to be concerned about that.

If you really want to go with the M2 surrounds to be switched upstairs later plan, this would even be a bit less expensive. You'll be operating in fairly close quarters, so if you use direct radiating surrounds you might consider placing them to the side but aiming them toward the back, so as to increase the proportion of reflected to direct sound. Experiment.

Dave, as my previous reply indicates, there's no need to be concerned about the condition of the speakers from the outlet.

Generally, Axiom doesn't get directly involved in arranging auditions; the prospective purchaser should attempt to make direct contact with owners in his area by sending a PM(private message). If instead Axiom is asked to assist in arranging an audition, in many cases they're able to do so, but as you say, the nearest possibilities may not be available for one reason or another.

Again, as I indicated in the previous reply, a vertical M2 would be my suggestion for a center. This is for wider and smoother horizontal dispersion. If it was placed on its side the horizontal dispersion would be both narrower and asymmetric.

Dave, no concern about the factory outlet, most of us have never found any nicks or blemishes when looking them over, they are brand new speakers, with full warranty. They are not returns.

Mod, have you considered ordering from the Factory Outlet, you get 10% off everything, plus if you buy 5 or more items you get another 5%, including accessories.

Guys,

Thanks for the replies. It is more to think about. I have been thinking about factory seconds. I am back and forth about it because of my upcoming move but should do it.

looks like the boys have you well covered. I will add to the outlet comments. It took me 4 months to notice a blemish on one of my M80s and that was a fluke. In my case it was a small light patch (the size of two rice grains) on my black oak vinyl fisnish: a bit of grey in a field of black. Its hard to see unless I take the time to actually search it out.

I still havn't found anything on the rest of my 5.1 system.

My epic 80/500 factory outlet purchase is near perfect... only my subwoofer has a very small defect on the corner, the rest look perfect. you have to be within a couple of feet to see the problem with the sub.

I did a poll about 4 years ago, if memory serves me correctly about 70-80% of people order from the outlet who took the poll. All of my speakers have come from the FO, and I can't find any nick's or blemishes, and they sound awesome.

I ordered my EP600 from the FO about four years ago and have yet been able to detect a blemish ... I believe maybe the volume knob might be a little skewed but it is ever so slightly and I'm not sure if that was the reason for the 600 being sold in the FO store or not.

First off I want to say that you all have a very warm, inviting and ingratiating forum here. I post on about a half dozen other forums for various interests but this one ranks highest in comradery (sp?), support and information that I have ever seen. After reading many threads, I felt very comfortable posting my first post in a thread I created.

I will take your collective advice and for go M2's and go for the SQ...8's. Why the 8's instead of the 4's- it's $100 difference from the FO and the cost of upgrading (i.e. what I would loose in trade) plus return shipping would be about $50 (or more), so for about $50 net they seem worth it. You all speak VERY highly of them. Also, I will go for FO's so I can get all that I want without my wallet climbing out of my pocket and smacking me upside the head with itself.

So I'll be ordering:
M22 pair- $424
SQ8 pair- $484
VP100- $230
Total- $1083 after 5% rebate. I was going to buy M22's, M2's and VP100 new for $970 (after 5%rebate) so i will get a lot more out of the surrounds for $110. Budgets are guideline anyways and thus made to be broken. I'm only breaking mine by about 7.5%, so that's not bad.

I will see/hear what the sound is like but I may upgrade the fronts and center to M80's/VP150 in the next year depending on cash flow. I guess if the M22's are really good (but somehow still leaving me wanting for more) I won't trade them up but will just kick them upstairs.

Thanks again for the advice! I like it here and will be sure to stick around and post pics when I get all my stuff installed in April after my move.

Sounds like a lot of fun. Makes moving much better to know you have a new HT waiting on the other side. Good luck.

Zimm, your 100% right. Plus, I only want the system on 1 truck not 2 (less potential people to drop the thing). I just ordered the Hsu VTF2 that I said I "have" (I "had" firmly decided on it though) and that will be shipped out 2 weekdays before my move, so I should get it all on or around April Fools.

I usually get the buyers remorse feelings when I spend a lot of $$$ but so far nothing. I love games, movies and music and have been suffering with a 3-year old $350 Panny HTiB with 5 DVD Changer/Receiver combo so the excitement of a real system is intoxicating. We'll see how I feel when $1100 goes out the door.

You will be one happy camper when you have everything set up. Congrats on your purchase.

thanks merchman. from the scores of hours of research i have done axiom won't let me done, just may leave me wanting more of their big sound.

Nice rig your going to have, congrats. Axiom and Hsu are great products.

I just wish that the $550 EP175 Axiom sub was of the same quality as the $550 Hsu VTF-2 Mk3. I would have liked all the pieces to match. I guess my satin black sub will match my Black Oak speakers in the end, but not match the exact finish. But that is nit-picky.

How do the EP 350 and HSu VTF-2 match up anyways?

Based on some reviews, I've heard the 350 does as well or better. I love my twin 350's....

Alan from Axiom attended a blind A/B listening test where the 350 had performed close the the EP500 DSP sub in many respects, and out performed the "3 letter" manufacturers.

3 letters, hum, Velo, no. JL, nope. PSB, maybe. HS...I get it now.

How do you go about trying to find contact info from the (I assume)user names I found of local owners near me on Axioms list by city/state page? In 'Search' (all forums) with 'Key Search Terms' left blank, I entered one username at a time. I set Date Range: to 'Newer than 11 months'. "No, results. Try a broader range of criteria." Am I doing this search incorrectlyy, or is there different way to find local owners?
Koiman ....... Antioch, CA
Gnrajagopal ... Fremont, CA

I really would like to hear the M60's and the rest before placing an order.

For my choice of VP150 vs. verticle M2, you'd choose the VP150? I have heard mention of "The inherrant issues with the horizontal style center channels"... but 'the issues' were not stated... (I hate that! ) Do you personally happen to prefer a verticle M2 to a VP center, price aside?

it's just too bad that 3-letter brand and the 350 don't match up by price.i guess i can live with non-matched sub/speakers. if i were a touch more OCD it would be a problem though...

Dave, if you click on the persons screen name it will take you to a page where you can send them a PM. If they login, they will have a little envelope flashing telling them they have mail.

Good to know about outlet speakers. :o)

I asked the Axiom rep what they do with the returned speakers. He said they remove the components and scrap the cabinets. WTH? That is hard to believe if the returned cabinets are perfect! Why would they not inspect them thoroughly, repackage and ship out as 'B' speakers? How in the heck could an assembly line have the reject rate required to fill so many 10% off 'B' speakers orders. Does not compute...

I see the outlet speakers are quoted as 3-4 weeks to ship, depending on the speaker. Are these times pretty accurate, or kind of worst case and sometimes often ship sooner? I guess a 7 speaker order would be more likely to take the full time due to any particular spkr needing a longer lead time. Of course, if it were my business, I'd keep a longer lead time for a discount! :o)

The only place I know to find owners names willing to demo is at this link. The user names are not clickable links. When I called Axiom on 2/12 to see how I contact the folks listed on this page, he said you need to call the factory for them to set up the initial contact. Then you and the Axiom owner communicate via email to make your arrangements. I gave the rpe. the two names I mentioned along with my email and phone no. I never heard from those two, but did hear from an owner in southern Calif, 6 1/2 hours away. I do not think So. Calif folks pay for flights like Rick in Florida.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=184230#Post184230
The names I had mentioned did not have M60's though.

OH, OH, OH! TWELLY in Union City, CA (1.25 hr drive:o) has M60's, VP150, QS8's.
Twelly is my new best friend! anyone know him/her or how I can contact them? I NEED Twelly.

Dollar for dollar Axioms subs doesn't compete with Hsu.

Dave,

It is really simple.

1) check page 1 of the "Audition" thread in the Hearing Things section.

2) look for someone in your area and make a note of the name.

3) then you can click on the "user list", locate the user(s), click on their name, and send them a PM.

OR, locate their name in any thread by searching, and do the same.

The alternative is to send a PM to user "Axiom" who replaced "Amie" and they might be able to provide information for people not on the list via the methods you mentioned above.

Axiom 201: Advanced Forum Usage Techniques

Today's lesson: How to send a PM if you don't have a username to click on

Adridged version, for those who don't like to read

> > Click this link < <

Detailed instructions

1. Click the My Preferences menu near the top of any forum page.
2. Click My Messages in the menu.
3. Click the Options menu near the top-left of the page.
4. Click Send a New Private Message.
5. Type a recipient's name (case does not matter) in the first box and click Add. You can add up to five recipients.
6. Enter a subject on the Subject line and then type your message in the Message box.
7. Click I want to preview my message (if that's true) and click Send when you're done.

skull,

You have the exact setup that I have. I have an Outlaw sub. I will someday make the jump to one of the higher Axiom subs, but it isn't absolutely necessary to have a match in that department. I love how my stuff sounds all together.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! I'm glad you are enjoying your system and sub (designed by Dr. Hsu, afaik). I keep feeling better and better about my decision. I must have told my wife "Ah, I found the speakers we are getting!" Only to tell her something different a day later. I also put in a big order from monoprice for 12 guage wire, banana plugs, premium fiber cable, premium 2-rca, 1-rca and 3-rca component cables. So All I need now are my speakers, sub and a house to put them in (goobye apartment living!).

Green acres is the place to be...

I haven't lived in a house full time since I went away to college (now finishing a doctorate, so it's been a loooong while). We rented a "rural" place on a wooded acre with a huge lawn. I will "own" grass! I won't have to hear my neighbors come home from work at midnight, right when I head to bed and talk loudly for an hour, or smell the rank fish my other neighbor cooks, or fight for a parking space. The list goes on and on. Oh, and when my wife is out I can play my music and games as loud as I like. My metal days when i was a teenager really did some damage to my ears so I need things extra loud just to hear them. I guess I'm going def at 31. i guess the next step is home ownership as opposed to renter-ship, but we are excited about our move.

SirQ & PMbuko,

Thanks for the info. I'm very new here so did not know of the user list. The fact that it is square in the middle of my screen, is my only sensible defense.

Twelly had 12 post between 4/03 to 5/04 so I don't there's much of a chance they will og on to see a PM. I will email user 'Axiom' to see if they will give my contact info to Twelly.
thanks again.
Dave

Showing your age there Fred... and Zsa Zsa is 92

My wife also does not understand what the big deal is.
The more I learn, the more I see I can possible tweek my choice to be a bit better. One reason, is that different variables present themselves as I learn how conditions I had not considered before, affect my choice. I really appreciate her patience. Well I hope she is being patient.

Hi Dave, I'm not sure if I extended the offer to you or to Modskull, but I will be available for auditions in 3 weeks. I currently have the M50s and the M80s at my home. I do have M22s and Audiobytes, but the M22s are on loan to my parents, and the Audiobytes are at my office. I'm in Oakland.

kcarlile, thanks for the offer to have us over. for my part, i hope you are in oakland, new york (there is a town of almost every name in new york). otherwise flying down to the bay area will seriously cut into my speaker budget. but i do appreciate it!

kcarlile,
Thanks for your offer. Yes, you did extend the offer to me. If I have not made a decision in three weeks, I may take you up on your offer. I REALLY hope Axiom is able to put me contact with Twelly in Union City. He/she has M60, VP150, QS's, exactly what I think I want. Hope, Hope...

Mark has messed me up completely by suggesting I forget the 7.1 speakers. You know it really throws a monkey wrench into a decision process when facts are so losely interjected like that. I can be, well, upsetting!

Mod,
Rick in Florida will comp you a flight to to hear his set up.

Rick, can I audition, too?

If Rick gets a big enough plane, we could all go at the same time. I'm just thinking about Rick, of course. It's unfair to ask him to make too many trips.

You're really generous like that, huh Adrian?

I'm trying.

Rick,
A Gulf steam would be way over the top, but if you feel we all are worth it, I'm sure we'll spring for the peanuts! It's all about chippin' in... this is a community after all. To quote Hillary: "It takes a forum... (to get Rick to spring for a private jet)." I may have used a bit of writers privilege here. Oh, wait, I'm not a writer. (sigh)

Rick is a pilot.... he could just pick us up....

I'll bring the beer!!

OK, we're all agreed then. All we need to do is coordinate the itinerary. This is going to be fun. Since I'm In CA, I do not mind being picked up last, just save me a beer, Mod! ;o)

For round-trip airfare I'll have plenty for everyone, I'm planning on getting a half-barrel. I hope the plane doesn't make it too foamy though.

Mod, my Gulf Stream is veeeery smooth. I am sure Ricks is too.

Rick, if I've not said so yet... Truly awesome theater room!
BTW, I am sure your Gulf Stream has quite the sound system too. I am 'a bit' embarrassed to say the previous owner had Bose in mine and I have yet to change them out. So we need to take yours. ;o)

I can't be sitting on used leather seats. That would be unacceptable Dave.

Not suggesting you change your mind but, if you decide to upgrade your order within the 30 days the return shipping is supposed to be free. So, in case you wanted to go with QS4's or the M2's for now... of course, call Axiom first to ensure they still do this.

That is a good idea but cash is tight right now. I am going with the M2's because the SQ8's are $110 more each- I can get these later when I kick the M2's upstairs into a 2.0 system. What I trade-up in year 1 will likely be the M22's to M60's or M80's.
I realize I keep changing my mind but the bills for my move are really adding up.