Wondering if anyone has done this because it can be very costly, but from what I've read it is the only way to properly calibrate your television.

I posted the following on the Samsung 550 AVS thread-

Does anyone know what would cause a greenish hue to my picture(darker colors)? I hope somebody understands what I'm talking about because I don't know if something's wrong with my set, or if I need to adjust a setting; I have a 58A550.

Please, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Then Doug Blackburn (a well respected calibrator) replied with a long response but to paraphrase, he said that there are grayscale errors and my TV needs to be professionally calibrated which could cost (he charges)$400 for a Samsung.

I replied that that cost is out of my league and asked if a disk like Avia would do, and I received this response-

"It all depends on what you mean by "work just fine". The DVE Blu-ray disc will help you set the Brightness control & Sharpness control. Using filters you will set the Color and Tint controls (but filters are inaccurate and you almost always end up tweaking by eye after using the filters because the filters weren't completely accurate). Setting Contrast is more problematic because you don't have a meter to tell you what the peak white level is... there's more to setting Contrast than simply finding the brightest white the TV will produce without serious high-luminance errors.

None of those things will improve the grayscale, let you know what gamma you are using, or make the primary and complimentary colors more accurate. These are all calibration functions (on the Samsung, some TVs have no gamma adjustments or color accuracy controls). So, while the DVE disc will help you set the basic controls, it won't fix your problem at low luminance levels - that's a calibration issue."

Sorry for the long message, but I wanted to let you guys know what advice I've received.

Thanks, any input is greatly appreciated.

I believe Jack (Ajax) has had his set pro calibrated, I'm sure he'll chime in here sooner or later to report his experience ... which were quite favorable IIRC.

I'd like to have ours setup by a pro one of these days.

I only saw the first four words to this thread and had to investigate.

LMAO and drinking a beer....I needed that Ed..

Glad to hear it Randy

That's another story, and I don't think I should go there on this forum

Had flashbacks upon reading that, did you Edward?

For sure

This could go in so many directions...

Yea, wait 'till Jack gets here with his AARP discount card stories.

Hey now, what's going on here . I found these guys who are local to me and are professional calibrators. They are ISF certified, anyone heard of them?

You could always buy a meter and do it yourself.

Test disks will help, but as Blackburn told you, you still can’t tweak grey scale, gamma or the color primaries / secondaries.

I use Calman and an i1-Pro meter. You can buy less expensive meters and download free software that will work for you. It’s a fairly straight forward process.

Totally non applicable to you because every situation is different but here is my story.

I found I gained a very satisfying increase in quality by using the tests and color eye filters provided with the Avia disk. It removed some coloration issues that were not bothering me but were never quiet right. More importantly, it all but removed my trouble with the snowstorm effect on large patches of light colors like a grey or light blue sky. That one was bothering me. HD was crystal clear except looked like VHF signal whenever there was large patches of light color.

Interestingly enough, until the tweaks removed this effect, I couldn't stand watching my first HD movie, 300, which many others tout as reference quality. It's painting like backdrops looked like fuzzy crap until I calibrated.

Have you tried using settings on AVS posted by other owners of the 550?

I have done this for both my LCD and plasma sets and found settings that I am quite happy with.

Yes, I've had my DLP professionally calibrated and, though it costs more than I like, I consider the expense well worth it (YMMV). My initial thoughts were not what I would call night and day. I even thought the TV too dark at first. But, as time went by, I began to notice subtle improvements. The picture just seemed more natural; more realistic; more like looking through a window rather than looking at a video screen (varies with source quality, of course).

My recommendation is to contact several other respected calibrators, explain the green tint and, without mentioning what Doug Blackburn had to say about it, ask them if they think calibration would solve the problem, or if the TV itself has a problem which needs service. If other calibrators give you a reply similar to Doug's, then I would think a professional calibration would be worth it to you.

You can search for ISF calibrators near you at the ISF Web Site. You can also search for calibrators at the usual forums. Be sure any calibrator you use is ISF trained.

I can personally recommend the guys from Lion Audio Video Consultants. My TVs have been calibrated by Gregg Loewen. He is a regular particpant at the Home Theater Forum and really knows his stuff. He tours annually to Maritime Canada (December and July-August). If Peterborough is in Maritime Canada you may be able to get on his July-August tour.

If Greg can't do it, I know of others who use Michael Chen and have been happy with his work. His tour schedule is listed on the same web page as Greg's tours.

You can ask your green tint question using the form at the bottom of either gentleman's web page.

I used AVIA II dvd and did my own calibration, can't imagine my Panny Plasma looking any better, and I'm picky.

Even with today's technologies, if you still want to max out the monitor's capabilities, provided you can find an experienced person with the appropriate equipment AND software, I believe it is well worth the expense. I have two RP CRT's in my house including a 7 yr. old Toshiba 65" 1080i set and it basically looks as good as the day it was delivered. Blu-Ray is great even over 1080i.

For me there are TWO very good reasons for strongly considering calibration. One that has already been mentioned and probably the most important for color accuracy is grey-scale. I have seen large screen plasma and LCD sets in stores today, specifically a Panasonic that I noticed that had a definite leaning towards the green in its picture. Some will have leaning towards the red, others towards the blue. Unfortunately you won't necessarily notice it unless you can compare it to other sets at the same time in the same room. This problem is especially noticeable during dark scenes and will affect the color balance at all levels of brightness. Some sets give you a limited capability of adjusting the different colors(Green, blue and red) internally, but without the proper measuring equipment, you could end up making it worse.

The second reason is voltage. As we all know, in the BIG BOX stores they have a bunch of sets on together cranked up because of the bright lighting to make them all look impressive. The problem is, when you get one of these in to your home it will probably be way to bright. Usually it is the contrast up way too high which is voltage and I have seen alot of these sets, when measured , up over D9000 when the proper measurement for accurate color reproduction is around the D6500 level at all levels of brightness. So what does this mean? Bring down the contrast level of your set to where it should be and that set will last and maintain its color balance considerably longer. My CRT's are a perfect example of that.

I believe the bottom line question is not whether to calibrate or not. The question would be, is the $250-$400 cost of a professional calibration worth it vs. a $20 DVE HD Basics (I used) or Avia do it youself calibration. I would imagine the professional would be better. I'd also guess that the DIY calibration would get you to 80-90% of what the normal viewer would be able to discern.

As with many things, the value of more bucks for marginal, if even noticeable improvement is worth it to each individual. That is a call only you can make for yourself. I would highly recommend investing $20 on the DIY route. It is a bit of a learning curve, but I really enjoyed learning what went into creating a picture on the TV machine. If you are not one who enjoys that kind of thing AND don't mind spending for the pro. then that is a good way to go. So it is more of a personal preference, than an objective choice.
Cam, good luck.

Jack, Jack, Jack.... I've told you before: You ARE looking out a window. And the lady in the bedroom across the way is NOT appreciating it. Again.

Remember the chart I made for you?

Enjoy watching TV ----> Living Room
Police knocking on door ----> Bedroom

I'm not sure if AVE will get you 80% there. To me, the real issue is the importance of the image. If you are not overly picky about the accuracy, and generally enjoy your set now, get the disk and make it a bit better. If you really focus on the details of the monitor and accuracy is important, then from what I have read all these years, pro calibration is the way to go. $400 is either a big waste of money - if you don't care all that much - or a very well priced "upgrade" if you do care a great deal about the picture.

Fair enough.

Thanks for all the input, I e-mailed the two calibrators that you recommended Jack to get their input, unfortunately they don't take tour's in my area. Also I am using the settings recommended on the 550 forum (Home Theater Magazine), but those settings where set after professional calibration.

Sorry to hear that Cam. I'm a bit surprised. You're not that far from Toronto and I would've thought at least one of them toured there. Hopefully, you'll find someone compentent in your area.

Don't feel bad Cam, I had the same problem here in New Orleans, no pros around and travel cost were just too much. Maybe they washed away in the flood?

Also, ask them what equipment they bring to the job. A local 'so called pro' is charging people just because he has done enough internet research to know how to access the extra settings on some sets that the consumer normally doesn't even know is there.

This still doesn't mean he knows how to make it be 'correct'.

Great point. Many locals were willing tweak it for me for a price. When I asked one if he knew the codes for the service menu, he acted like I had asked him to explain the String Theory of the Universe. "Yeah, sure, I know where that panel is...right next to the flumater, sorry, it's technical sir."

Are all ISF certified techs supposed to have the requisite tools and knowledge? I know there are levels, but not sure if they are forced to follow a minimal set of methods.

That's what I've always said, how can you trust a "pro" to calibrate a set correctly, if you don't know what correct is. If you know what correct is, then it isn't much more work to learn to do it yourself. You can get a colormeter and software for $400.

Getting the black and white levels correct will get you to 80%, that can be done by eye (really those two things are the most important part in getting a quality picture with real depth). Color and tint gets you up to 90%, that just needs a blue filter. The last 10%, getting the color of white to 6500 K, and the gamma ramp smooth, are the hardest parts.

I think the point of the color of white and the grey scale not being accurate even today in a significant number of monitors right from the factory is a foregone conclusion. Most of the reviews of monitors I read in much of today's CE press refers to this. I have a neighbor who just took delivery of a large screen Sony Bravia LCD set and I immediately noticed that the set right out of the box was tinted far too much towards the blue. You can't get accurate colors until this imbalance is corrected. Unless you have access to the service menu and the internal workings within the set which ONLY technicians generally have , you can't make adjustments yourself that will correct these particular problems. A good calibrator will have the software AND a laptop which will enable that individual to do the necessary tweaking(and it can take awhile) to give you as accurate a reading as possible up and down the D6500 scale. The idea is to make sure the grey scale is as accurate as possible so colors will be the same or as close to the same no matter how bright or dark the picture is. It is amazing to see how some monitors will show a terrific picture during a bright scene yet, be way out of color balance when the scene is dark. A printout should be provided so you can see exactly where your monitor fits in terms of accuracy. Of course, it can never be 100%. If the calibrator can't do this, then look elsewhere.

Generally speaking, when I look at a television right out of the box, when you are watching a movie with the black bars and in a dark scene, if the blacks are black without a tinge of either blue, green or red in the black portions of the screen, you are probably in pretty good shape and the test discs should finish the job nicely.

Like I mentioned before if you have a noticeable leaning in either of the three colors in the picture, that is something only a technician with access to the internal service menu can fix.

Quick question ... if a TV set is professionally calibrated will a power failure affect the settings at all?

I was wondering a similar thing. Can you record or get a printout of all settings in case you lose all or part of them due to user FU or power outage, etc. I guess you'd not (normally) be able to access service areas of the menu to correct those. BUt from my reading of the Mitsubishi thread over on AVS a while back, there seemed to be folks 'with codes'. (like press 'menu' then 2 4 7 0 to see how many hours are on your set. )

PS. Rick have you tried this?

I took pics of the service menu before i changed anything to know how to fix it.

You, sir, are smarter than me. I'd have written it down, but then been unable to read my handwriting afterward. I've done that with BIOSes enough times...

Its a good idea to write down any settings you can for your set. I wonder if the calbrator will give you a print-out of the service settings?

In my case, the set was pretty good out of the box once I switched to the 65K (warm white) setting. Lots of sets are on a cool white setting out of the box that pushes the blue quite a bit. I guess this looks better in showroom conditions.

I did some minor tweeking of black and white levels (I found white levels hard to set) and a bit of a tweek with tint/hue.

I could probably improve the picture a little with greyacale calibration, but my main issue is a slight red push that cannot be corrected (no service menu controls either).

Fred, do you have a Mits. DLP? In my color set up, red was dominant. I could not tell from the picture. I felt at a loss to try adjusting the various tints on my own. Luckily on the AVS Mitsub. thread, someone posted a link to a review where they showed tint settings for a very similar Mits. model to mine. The red was still a bit away from the center of the scale, but before it was off the scale! I'm happy.

For the record, I have had power failures over the years with my sets and whatever changes are made in calibration aren't affected. I must admit with the newer technologies i.e. plasma, LCD etc., I am not 100% sure but realistically it shouldn't. There is also the issue, depending on the set, of whether or not it has more than one setting for each input. In other words, many sets have the capability of two or more inputs in which you can do independent color, contrast, brightness etc. I know in the case of my 7 yr old 1080i RP CRT, I have four separate inputs with independent settings which could also be "calibrated" independently of one another. I counted over 100 individual separate adjustments in the service menu!

Mind you, the question is whether or not someone will give you access to the service menu and of course, how to get in to it which is generally codes thru the remote. That could be a stumbling bloc because they don't like doing it, unless you know someone that could get you the service manual. No matter what, there is generally no "default" setting per se, so any changes made during re-calibration should stay that way even with a power failure.

I don't believe so Adrian, simply because I asked Doug Blackburn to check out the website of the local ISF certified calibrator and to give me any feedback/concerns etc., and he mentioned that the diagnostic tools that they use are fairly old and not "high end".

Jack, I did get a reply from both of the calibrators that you suggested, and the Asian gentleman will be in my area in September. He did suggest to decrease green offset/bias or add red and blue on the offsets. I went into the TV menu and noticed that I didn't set any of the white balance settings (when they reset a couple weeks ago) to the recommended ones by Home Theater Magazine, so I'll check out a DVD tomorrow and see if it makes a significant difference.

He seems like a very nice guy, and here was his response to my issue-

"Greetings

Greenish tint ...

look at a black and white image ... and tell me if the blacks and dark grays are greenish. if yes ... you have a grayscale issue. A calibration can fix it ...

short of that ... if that is all you are looking for ... go to thewhite balance area of the tV ... and decrease green offset/bias

or add red and blue on the offsets

If you want more than just this addressed ... then professional calibration is the route"

I do have a calibration disc called The Ultimate DVD Platinum that I'll pop in tomorrow and tinker around with, it's not as good as AVIA, but I just found a decent review of it here . I did a quick check of all the available tweaking utilities and it wouldn't allow me to adjust the chroma or hue. I'll have more time tomorrow so maybe there's something I'm doing wrong.

Dave, no, mine is a Sony XSRD. From what I remember when I was researching, the Mits sets give you full access to all the colour controls within the service menus.

Overall I am very happy with my set. The red push is not that strong and you only notice it in some dark scenes where close-to-black stuff has a slight red tint.

I have been wondering the same thing. I can remember people posting about loosing their settings after a power outage. It would make sense to use non-volitile memory so you don't loose settings.

GREAT! Good to know that both guys werre helpful. Hope the reset solves the problem and you don't need a calibration.