I have heard many great things about Axiom speakers. I'm looking to upgrade my speakers. My room is about 22ft wide by 28ft deep. The viewing area is about 16' wide x 14' deep with an open area behind it. This is a basement with carpet and 8' walls all plastered including the ceiling. I am all set for a sub. This will be for 95% home theater use and 5% for music. I currently have a Denon avr788 receiver. Here are my questions:

Will the avr788 be enough to power the new Axiom speakers?
With that size of a room/viewing area will the vp100 be fine or would I need to goto the vp150?
For fronts what should I go with m22, m50, or m60?
for the rears what would be best for mainly home theater one of the bookshelves or the qs4 or qs8?

I can probably spend a max of about $1300. Anything else would probably be at least 3-5 years before I would be able to purchase anything else.

Option 1 get the m60 & vp100 use my old bookshelf speakers for rears? My old bookshelves are 20 year old american acoustics with 8" woofers.

Option 2 get the m60 and vp150 use my old bookshelf speakers for rears?
Option 3 get the m50's, vp100 or vp150, and qs4?
Option 4 same as 3 but go with the m22's instead of qs4's?
Option 5 you pick.

Thanks

Get the M80s and use a phantom center plus use the old speakers as surrounds.

Welcome to the Axiom forum!

I think the M22's, VP150 and QS4 combo would work nicely in your room for a 5.0 setup . What are you using for your subwoofer (.1)?

Cheers!

Rick, M80s were not even listed as an option.....you M80s guys are incorrigible.

Seriously, options 1 or 2 are best.........IMO.

M22s would fill your viewing area pretty well. Do you ever want to listen from behind the theater area? If not, I would go with the M22s VP of choice and the QS4s. With that space, you could use the old bookselves for rear surrounds.

Geez, what was I thinking?? M80s all the way around!!

Musta got hit in the head this morning.

Larry,



That's a huge room and I feel with the Denon the M80s would be what I would recommend.

You really should take a listen to them. Bring those M60s over and we can compare the two.

Option 5!!! D'oh!

Wid. It is a big space, but I'm thinking that if he watches from 14' away the M22 would do. 5 years is a long time to wait for decent surrounds.

For the space behind I was going to use the old bookshelves as background noise while playing cards, but that's only 3-4 times per year so not a big deal. The receiver is set to be able to play an extra 2 channel zone

My sub was custom made for me. Here's the specs from the builder.

JL Audio's 13W1v2-4 driver and a 300W rms Bash plate amplifier. I did a ground plane measurement at 3 feet from the woofer cone. I was out in the open at minimum 25-30 feet from any large objects.

I used a RadioShack Analog SPL meter for testing with C weighting and slow response. I was just starting to get a touch of audible noise at 20hz, however it is just below the tuning frequency of 21hz. Most of the noise was due to the amplifier reaching a bit past it's limit I am sure.

20hz - 100db corrected actual 107.5db

22hz - 104db corrected actual 109db

25hz - 106db corrected actual 111db

30hz - 110db corrected actual 113db

35hz - 110.5db corrected actual approx. 113db

Packer(fan, I presume), welcome. The loudness level that you use, the dynamic range of the program material and your listening distance(a more significant factor than total room volume)are the primary determinants of how much power is needed at your listening position and suitable speakers to produce it. Unless the level is extremely high and the distance quite long the M22s, with the fine sub you've described taking most of the heavy bass load off, should be very satisfactory.

In any case don't pass up the exceptional QSs for side surrounds. My first pick would be M22s plus QS8s and no center speaker. If tower speakers are wanted, the M60s plus the QS8s would still fit your budget if you order from the Factory Outlet(new speakers with a slight cosmetic blemish)with a 10% discount.

Unless again the sound level would be extremely loud and the listening distance long your 788 should drive your Axioms with ease. There are tendencies to overestimate, sometimes to a gross degree, the amplifier power actually needed.

For 95% home theatre use I would not recommend using a phantom centre. Just my opinion.

I agree

If you are sitting under 12' from the TV, according to everything I have ever been told by Axiom, you will be fine with M22's and a VP100. If you sit more like 12 - 18', you'll probably want a VP150. I would pair either with two QS4's, or QS8's if they fit the budget (they should, especially from factory outlet which is 10% off, plus another 5% if you buy five speakers.) It does not seem filling the room with sound is a priority for you, which the towers will be much better at, if only 5% of what you listen to is music.

Another alternative would be M60's and a VP150 with your current bookshelves as surrounds, but I think you'd gain more from going to QS8's from 20 year old bookshelves than you would gain by going to M60's from M22's.

Should do a fine as long as you’re not sitting to far back and don’t want things really loud. But you will have that same issue with any speaker brand, one advantage of most Axiom’s is that they are efficient and will play a little louder with the same power as many other brands.



I think how far back you plan to sit better determines which to use however, since this is mostly HT I would get the best center I could fit above/below the screen. I’m a big fan of using a phantom center but for 95% HT no way…get the best center you can afford/fit.



I would get the M22s. Matched with your subwoofer they will sound awesome. Since money is a factor why pay for towers when your subwoofer can pick up the low end. Should you ever wish to upgrade to towers in the future you could then move the M22s to another room or to the back as 7.1 surround back speakers.


QS speakers for sure. Which ones will depend on your other purchases and if you just want to spend more for them.

Here would be my options all from the factory outlet to save an additional 10%:

Least expensive:

5. 3 x M22 L/C/R, 2 x QS4 $970.90 shipped.

Or if an M22 center doesn’t fit then:

5a. 2 x M22 L/R, 1 x VP150 C, 2 x QS4 $1,177.00 shipped

You could upgrade the surrounds in either of those packages to QS8s and still be within your budget.

If I go with the m22 as a center. Where would that go? I've read it should be placed vertically not horizontally so it wouldn't be able to go below the tv and would have to go on top. That would mean the bottom of the speaker would be about 4 1/2-5 feet in the air. Isn't that too high up?

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Seems most have been stating the m22's as the fronts would work well. As for filling the room with sound I want it filled in very nicely for the viewing area and am not too concerned how it sounds 25 feet away in the back corner.

About the factory outlet option. I've read a little on that about they are small blemishes and not real noticeable. They don't ship speaker that say have a big chunk out of the corner, or a deep scratch down the side etc do they? My luck I'd get the worst speaker ever shipped from the factory outlet.

The M22 center would be set up vertically. If you need to put it over the TV you can do so upside down so that the tweeters are at or close to ear level. This would give the best setup.

Space and aesthetics are the reasons not many people have vertical centers. That said, if you can accommodate it, it gives the best sound.



I ordered from the factory outlet and when my speakers arrived, I did a quick inspection to see what the blemishes might be. I couldn't find anything and decided not to look further (what you can't find you won't see??). Anyway, about 3 months later I happened to notice a tiny blemish on one speaker- a discoloured spot. If I look really hard, I can find it again, but I really have to work at it. There is nothing to worry about.

By the way, that JL 13W1 is an amazing driver and is still considered one of the best in the industry even though it is now an older design. You are probably getting the same or slightly better performance than the EP600.

are you the same fredk as on audioholics? I posted on that site as well, but use the id lbolts20. That's an old id I had setup and can't figure out how to change it to 2packer like I have all my other internet id's as.

If so you can see the build on the sub annunaki did for me. I'm very pleased with it. Just need some nice speakers to complement it.

Welcome fellow Wisconsinite. I think a couple M22's a VP150 and a couple QS8's will work just fine for your setup. Sounds as though you are well set in the sub department. Factory outlet keeps you under budget and leaves some cash for stands or some speaker wire. Be sure to let us know what you end up ordering.

Yup, thats me. I remember that thread. Annunaki has done a few builds for others. He's got a very good rep.

I choose option 5.

Doesn't seem that option is to popular.

Several forum posters placed some pics in this thread started awhile back, photos of FO speakers.
the Factory Outlet pics thread

I see the stands are $100 a piece for the M22's .Purchasing the M50 vs M22 with stands the difference is $100 more for the M50. Are those worth the extra $100 or can I easily pick up elsewhere stands for less than $100 a piece and the M22's are better deal?

2packer, I recieved my complete Epic 80-500 system from the Factory Outlet less than a month ago. I have yet to find a blemish on anything. When unpacking my speakers I noticed that both my M80s and QS8s have sequencial serial numbers. Now that make me wonder if the were blems at all. The wait time for the system was a full month and it makes me wonder that if the FO doesn't have blems to send within the estimated wait time, then Axioms sends firsts to fill the order. My point is, do not be afraid to order from the FO. The drawback is that you have wait for what seems an eternity to get that email from Noreen that your order has shipped. Let me tell you though it is worth the wait. I highly recommend the M80s, QS8s, and a VP150 if you can swing the budget.

I was also very concerned about buying mains that were too small, but you really have to take room size and intended use into consideration if you are on a budget. Axiom atated to me the whole point of the M22 was to provide near tower level power and sound (with a sub) without having the large footprint.

If you look under the product page for the VP 100/150, the 100 says it can be teamed with the M3 and M50, whereas the VP150 leaves those speakers off the list. I'm not sure however if this is for sound reasons, or if it's just due to size.

I emailed ask the expert with a link to this thread and my room setup, $1300 budget etc. Brent recommended going with the m50's with vp150 for the front and use my old bookshelves for now until I can save up for a set of qs8's.

Decisions, decisions, decision. what to do, hmm

If you are doing 95% movies, I still think M22's a vp 150 and the qs4's or 8's are the way to go. Then save up for some M60's or M80's in a few years. You can find stands for the M22's pretty cheap or build a set yourself. Decisions, decisions, all part of the fun or perhaps agony.

Probably because the size of the room, he's perhaps thinking you want to fill it.

RE: Stands
The Axiom stands are top rate, but others have found less expensive alternatives. Hopefully someone who has done this will chime in with suggetions.

If you are looking for inexpensive speaker stands for the M22's. Parts-Express has some for around $50.

I still stand behind my initial recommendation and build a system around some M80s.

I agree 95%. Why compromise by getting the entry level Axiom towers and top of the line center speaker when you can get their top of the line bookshelf, center and surround speakers all at one time. Also, buy getting 5 items (some non speaker stuff also applies) you get a 5% discount. Add that to the 10% you would get for buying factory outlet (I own 10 outlet Axioms w/o one blemish on any of them) and you’re getting a total of 15% off and will have a full top of the line Axiom 5.0 HT system that you can upgrade to towers later if you really feel the need. You can build or buy very inexpensive stands/shelves for the M22s.

Otherwise (the other 5%) I would go with wid’s suggestion:



If you were 95% music and 5% HT I would flip these choices around. Now, 3-5 years is a long time w/o a center if you’re watching lots of movies/TV. Don’t get me wrong I love using a phantom center whenever I can even though my center is an M80. I prefer the better tonal balance between symmetrically placed L/R speakers than throwing even an identical center into the mix. However, there are just to many times when the center channel of a movie is mixed so low compared to the L/R channels that you just have to boost the center channel up to hear it properly and you can’t do this using a phantom center.

Where would I mount the surrounds? With the openings and different ceiling heights it puzzles me.

I can't figure out how to attach the pics. It's on photo bucket.
http://s972.photobucket.com/albums/ae210/2packer/

[image]http://s972.photobucket.com/albums/ae210/2packer/[/image]

thanks,

how'd you do that? I tried the [image] link from the faq and it didn't work.

Copy and paste directly from photobucket.

Mount one on the soffit or the pillar to the left of the couch, and the other on the wall. Both even or just behind the couch. They may be different distances from the couch but that can mostly be made up for with timing and level correction in the receiver. Would be best with a QS speaker for sure.

I agree, simply wall mount the QS to the one side and then mount the other one to the beam side, avr distance settings make for easy placements of the QS's.

getting close to a decision. Here is a picture where the front 3 will go. The picture isn't correct there will be a 50" panasonic plasma in that place. The shelf directly behind the tv is 58" above the ground. I set one of the bookshelves on it to get a better idea. The M22 is a little taller Would that be okay to put a M22 on it upside down or is that either too high off the ground or too far behind the tv? My other option would then be to get the vp150 and put it on a shelf below the tv.

I think the center will be fine if the left and right are on stands high enough to get the tweeters higher than your old speakers were...

If you have not made your decision - I am in the M60 crowd and could not be happier. I can not believe that the m80's would sound any better than what I get coming out of the M60's. No way - no how. If they really sounded that much better, I would think listners would be openly weeping or passing out or something? Of course, I am not trying to start anything

Agreed Argon. I have never heard M80s so I'm blissfully happy in my ignorance.

I will send you an MP3 of how they sound...

Hmmm, logic now requires you also ship me your M80s to play the MP3 as well. I know you are a logical thinker so I trust I will receive both.

The poster retains the right to return another speaker model from within Axiom's floor model lineup should your original speakers prove unable to be repaired, restored or should he simply like them better.

ahhh, nice to see my thread hasn't died. I'm heading out of town in the morning for Indianapolis for the Nascar race. When I return I'll probably be placing my order. It's either M22's, vp150 & qs8's or M60's vp150. Since it may start to warm up soon in Wisconsin I'll have my children sell lemonade and brownies at the end of the driveway and save up for some qs8's for down the road.

If I go the route of the M60's and vp150 I'll also order 2 of the wall brackets for the qs8's. This will give me the 5% discount and will actually only cost me $13 for the pair of brackets.

mmmmm....brownies...fuzzy memory flashback....

The details got fudged?

They got fuzzed!

Fuzz brownies? I don't know if cop recipes can compete with Mary Jane's.

I think there was somethin' else besides cops in them there brownies...