I've been checking out threads at the AVS forum - mainly researching opinions on various TV models and types (sounds like a good time to sit and wait). Also took a look at the speakers area, or should I say - the Rocket promotional forum @ AVS. What's up with that? The owner of the company is there arguing with anybody who is critical of his product.
I hang out there quite often myself. For the most part it seems to be other forum members doing the arguing. Mark (Rocket president) seems to at least keep neutral in the discussions. He has always thanked me for my points of view, and never been critical. My review of his RS150 was far from glowing - but he still thanked my for it. It does strike me as a little odd that he posts on the board at all though. Even though he seems to remain out of the fray, he still uses the forum to promote his products. I don't like that. He has his own board at av123 he could use for that.
Everyone's entitled to his or her own opinion, but I think it's just B.A.D. when a company owner toots his own horn in a forum. Of course he's going to be critical of anybody who doesn't praise them. The rockets are his babies!
What I don't understand is why he even bothers looking in there. It's nice to see that Ian doesn't get caught up in here. It's good to maintain a healthy detachment from your criticism -- good OR bad.
I never really got the impression that Mark "toots his own horn". He happens to be happy with his product and it seems that most Rocket owners are happy with their speakers. I guess it surprises me a bit that there are less Axiom owners there hyping our speakers. I think a place like AVSforum is exactly where internet direct companies would get the most press and have the most praise.
In fact, it was the "Rocket Hype" that led me to researching internet direct companies and that's how I found Axiom. And that's why I'm a happy owner now. Given the recent audition that included the Rockets and Axioms it seems that Axiom is getting more press everytime someone comes to the AVSforum asking "What speakers should I buy with X amount of money?" Given their lower price point than the Rockets and better looks than the Ascends, I think it can only be good for Axiom sales.
Frank
If a company has survived for as long as Axiom has, and i'm assuming they are doing well financially, then why bother to promote?
Sometimes companies get so large with fast growth that some of the best business traits get lost over time.
Can you imagine if Axiom became as large as Paradigm?
I highly doubt the customer service would remain as one on one as it has been for a long time.
For one i'm pretty happy that Axiom has remained in tight control of their business size. Too much advertising is not always a good thing and certainly word of mouth has seemingly been quite effective for Axiom in gaining new customers.
I had taken a look over at AVS when I was deciding on speakers, and that was back when Rockets didn't exist, but Mark's product was Swan Divas. I had actually considered Swans, Ascend Acoustics and Axiom at the time, and for no special reason, went with the Axioms (now not regretting my purchase one bit as I read more about different speakers). The people at AVS can be very informative and helpful, but the board really did start becoming very centered on Swan Divas, and now Rockets. I think the administrator of the board had to post a message telling people to tone down the hyping of certain products.
What has started happening recently, after all of these months of positive feedback, is that some people have begun speaking out against the Rockets, due to their supposedly "laid back" sound. It was only a matter of time, after the initial hype died down, that some people came to the conclusion that Rockets are not the be all end all in speakers. And certainly not if they are as laid back as described, in which case I am sure most Axiom owners would consider them to be missing something. So, they seem like good bang for your buck speakers, if you really like a laid back sound rather than detailed.
And Chesseroo, fwiw, I have actually seen quite a bit of advertising by Axiom lately on different forums and websites like Audiorevolution. I have no opinion on it, but it may have something to do with their strategy of cutting off third party sales from Audioshop and others lately.
"Arguing" was perhaps too strong a word. I just read a thread this morning in which you warned a prospective Rocket customer to listen to a number of speakers before making a choice based on third party recommendations. At that point Mark jumped in (about to lose a customer?) and, while seeming to support your viewpoint, subtly promoted himself and his product again. Didn't like you cooling off that buyer, I suppose.
However, his self-promotion is not nearly so blatant as the screaming from those guys who sell speaker wire and fancy cable (I'm guessing that's what they do - based on the almost religous fervor of their posts).
That "speakers" area of the AVS forum has a completely different tone from the rest of the forum - and not in a good way.
In reply to:
I have actually seen quite a bit of advertising by Axiom lately on different forums and websites like Audiorevolution. I have no opinion on it, but it may have something to do with their strategy of cutting off third party sales from Audioshop and others lately.
This is probably true.
I have also noticed their logo more often than before around some forum sites over the past year, but if anyone had asked me about Axiom two years ago, i would never have been able to say who they were. Paradigm, PSB, Energy, Boston Acoustics, etc. are mainstream names that come to mind that i knew about a decade ago, some of which have been around for nearly the same amount of time as Axiom.
That does say something about how much the companies mass adverstise and historically promoted their products towards those new to the audio world of equipment.
Of course the increasing presence of the internet is also a huge source of info that was virtually non-existent until the past decade.
Unless you picked up audio magazines for reading reviews, you may never have come across the name Axiom in most audio stores. I still cannot even remember where i got the name Axiom to review for speaker choices when i had started seriously looking. I do remember that it was not the internet.
On the other hand, when I was looking about 6 months back I found a couple of good review related to Axiom, which is what got me started looking. I ended up going with them. I actually never ever heard of Rocket until about 2 months ago. From what I've read, I probably wouldn't be a fan of them anyway.
In reply to:
I guess it surprises me a bit that there are less Axiom owners there hyping our speakers.
yeah, yeah, Frank and I are one of those few who bother to "promote" our Axioms in the AVSforum huh?
And yes, as far as I can see, Mark is clearly and consistently trying to "neutralize" every negative comment on the Rockets. A while ago, I expressed my personal disappointment on Dr. Hsu's decision to go with the same Chinese cabinet manufacturer who makes Rocket's cabinets to dress up his new wood-veneered VTF-3. It was simply that I personally did not like the appearance -- too eye-catching and too "oriental" etc (and I was born and raised in Japan). Mark wasted no time to jump in to that thread and object against my opinions. I thought it was at best "bizarre" to see that he bothered (1) to respond in a thread where no Rocket speakers were discussed at all; and (2) to try neutralize my personal opinion on the appearance of a speaker so adamantly -- a totally subjective matter of preference after all. Also, I observe that his routine response when he sees that a potential customer is veered away from the Rockets is to suggest "auditioning them at home" -- this is nothing but a blatant sales pitch, since the only way to do so is to order them under their trial policy.
I find it interesting that this topic has come up.
I've avoided some other forum sites for these very reasons. Too many 'prowlers' promoting products. It is almost as if companies hire ppl to chat up these forum goers and refute anything but their own company claims.
The Axiom forums have been one of the best places for honest, technical information so far in my opinion.
I do however enjoy the HT section on AVS for home building DIY. They've given me some great ideas.
I suppose its just upto each individual to be discerning when it comes to the hype and the leading comments made by some specific people on the forums. Some of them however are very good at leading people by consistently coming across as good samaritans. First time viewers would see this as "prompt".
All said and done, the internet has the biggest help. As I could not audition anything, I was about to purchase the Bose 301 :-) when I decided to research a bit. This turned out to be a landslide of information and this link http://www.fiendation.com/300zx/bosefaq.htm is the one that got me hooked into "audiomania". My search finally narrowed to the Paradigm Titans and the B&W DM303 as my budget was $300. Numerous mails to people around the world and detailed searches on audioreview.com brought me to one reviewer of the Titan who praised the M3s much higher than anything else. The rest is history.
On a side note, I had someone from this forum over to my house last Thursday to audition my Axioms. He had another audition of some Rockets in PA somewhere. I'll be interested in hearing his unbiased view of both. I'll try and get him to post his impressions here.
Frank
I think i researched the speakers for about 3 months before deciding what to try and I researched receivers for nearly 6 months.
Took awhile to get around and listen to various things, sum up all their features, price shopping, etc.
I was about as thorough as i could get short of buying all the items, bringing them all home and returning the ones i didn't want.
The internet was a godsend of info for all these companies.
"On a side note, I had someone from this forum over to my house last Thursday to audition my Axioms. He had another audition of some Rockets in PA somewhere. I'll be interested in hearing his unbiased view of both. I'll try and get him to post his impressions here."
There was a guy listening to Ascends and Axioms in the Philly area....his name is Mark. Same guy?
Doubt it....Mark is the guy that was at my house last Sunday to check out the Axioms. The general impression I got from him was that the Axioms were more detailed, but the ascends were a bit fuller....he's probably around here on the boards somewhere if he wants to provide more info though.
Bill is his name. Different guy.
Frank
Would be interesting to get Bill's thoughts on the Rockets vs Axioms.