So I've had my axioms for just over a week now and am extremely happy with them. But since I am still in the trial stage am thinking about upgrading my EP175 to an EP350. From the posts I've seen about them I am about 95% sure I'm going to upgrade my QS4's to QS8's. Thoughts??.... Room is only 16x11x7.5 sq.ft. Maybe the sub might be overkill??

Oh Upgrade-itis will you ever stop?

There's no such thing as overkill in audio.

In my first 3 weeks or so after my first Axiom delivery I upgraded the following

VP100 to dual centers, VP100 & VP150 upgrade
Upgraded QS4's to QS8s
Had a jbl 10" Sub and got a EP500
Added another set of QS8s for 7.1 rears

I've VERY HAPPY with all my buys

My room is 11 x 10.5 x 8

Your system will benefit from moving up to the EP350 especially for dynamic Blu-ray or DVD soundtracks and classical music recordings. As far as going to the QS4 to QS8 for surround use the benefits of upgrading will be marginal at best for your room size - even going to 7.1 and using the QS8's as your side surrounds and QS4's as the surround backs you will not see much improvement - not as much as investing in a more competent subwoofer. If this was a much bigger room looking into 7.1 would be a viable option.

So yes to the EP350 and no to the QS8. Adding a pair of quality headphones is also a good investment for when you want to listen to music, movies, t.v etc and you don't want to disturb anyone or if you find you travel often.

I agree with the EP350 upgrade. Don't know about the QS upgrade since I started with the QS8.

No tech here, I noticed a lot fuller sound and envelopment going from the 4s to the 8s.. Is it better? Did I want it? ... nah .. it's better! but how much? ... Just a dollar judgement

So.. Here's one for you. Upgrade to EP350 or SVS PB10-NSD?

Thats the decision I struggled with two years ago. At the time, the C$ made one of its forrays above par so with that and the outlet discount I ended up going with the EP350.

What is shipping going to cost you?

$579CDN + $60 Shipping from sonicboomaudio.com

The PB10 should do very well in a room that size.

And hence my dilemma.....Upgrade to an EP350? (12" no DSP) or upgrade to a sub with DSP but same size as what I already have?(10")

You may want to check out some of Paradigm's line of DSP subs as well, they offer decent value per $$, but you have to shop around a little to get the best deal, as I found out(30% difference in price with some Pdigm dealers!). Have a look at the DSP3200 or 3400.

It may have the same size driver but it is in a whole difference class of subs. It will be a huge upgrade.

For HT I find you need the bigger driver to move enough air to really feel the LFE. A 10" driver works very well for music and ok with movies but I have found the larger drivers are required for some real impact with movies.

You guys, really are making this hard on me. I'm thinking of returning my EP175 (just not getting the oomph I thought it would) and now have it narrowed down (if you can call it that) to either The EP350 (a $182 upgrade if I go with FO) an SVS PB-10NSD ($579CDN + $60shipping)or a Paradigm DSP3100 ($569CDN @ the local dealer) The DSP3200 is a little out of my range @ $829CDN

Arghh! Decisions Decisions!!

From my experience with the DSP3100 vs the EP350, get the EP350 and I have only heard the PB12nsd which IMO is a little stronger performer than the EP350 so extrapolating a ton here, I would say the 350 will be slightly better than the 10-nsd(have never heard the 10-nsd). To me the best money spent for you right now would be on the EP350.

It is true that most 12" drivers offers more for H/T; I would be willing to bet the op would be thrilled with the SVS PB10.

Not all sub drivers of the same size are of the same quality.

True, but it has been my experience with subs in the 10" range that they just don't offer the same feel as the larger drivers for HT. I would just hate for him to order the 10nsd and find it isn't up to the task either when I am quite certain the EP350 will do what he wants, but as you said, the 10 nsd would be a decent improvement over the EP175 and he would be happy as well.

I'm not helping much am I

Not really (ha ha). That's why I am having a problem, Is having a sub with DSP worth it or should I just bite the bullet and get the EP350. I have no doubt that 10" would be more than enough, considering my 10 year old 8" Energy SB-1 kicks out more than enough bass in my upstairs system. Just want it consistent with TV and music and at lower volumes like my upstairs system. Maybe I'm just to used to the way that one sounds, but it seems I am constantly adjusting the downstairs sub gain. BTW went to go look at the DSP3100 and of course they do not have any in stock, order will be in in 2 weeks

Ian, it would appear to me that Paradigm has increased the price substancially on the latest versions of their DSP subs, likely due to the addition of the PBK/Perfect Bass Kit. I bought a 3400 about 1 1/2 yrs ago(previous version) for $700 CAD and could have bought the 3200 for much less than that.

PB10-NSD < EP350 < PB12-NSD

I would like to find a subwoofer that has a good high extension (and at least down to 25hz), that would better complement the on-wall M22's since it seems the low extension of the on-walls is not as good as the bookshelf M22. But I would like to be able to adjust this away, a little at a time, to where I really need it, which is something I don't know at this point in time. The PB12-NSD goes from 20 hz to 410 hz in nearly a straight line. But the amp only has a high cross-over at 120 hz which IMO would only allow you to have up to 20-120. Not something like 20-250, or 20-300. Is this correct, or am I missing something?

I have a PB12-NSD with IWOW M22's, they work fine together.

I actually accidentally bumped the crossover up to 200 hz over the weekend and it sounded freaking terrible I normally have it at 100.

Never mind.....

That 120hz is not a brick wall and you will still get some extension up to 150 if not a little more and the IWOW will reach slightly lower to 100 using the same idea that their slope extends down at least this far if not a little farther.

haha

The sub itself will only cut 120+ off if you turn the crossover on on the back. I leave it off, and use the receiver, so the sub was playing up to 200. It wasn't good, at least for me.

Brian, I'm still puzzled by what you're reporting about the bass extension of the on-wall M22s. The Axiom spec for them does in fact show less extension than for the regular M22s, but not by a huge amount(about 10Hz, down to 70Hz). Unless the Axiom spec is wildly inaccurate, this would appear to be suitable for an 80Hz crossover, and certainly 90 or 100Hz. Just about any sub could be blended with that.

John, in my experience with the on-walls, they sounded better with a higher crossover.

They do, for sure.

It could be my room, but when I had my sub crossed at 80 hz I had a big lull at 88 - 92 hz or so, so I bumped it up to 100. In my room the IW/OW 22's start to give it up below about 92 - 94 hz.

I've done many multiple listening tests and the highest, at 200 hz sounds the best for bass, but for some reason I haven't found yet, it seems to lessen the upper end clarity. So, I either have better base or I have high end clarity.

So I think i'm just gonna go ahead and order up the EP350, and a set of QS8's and if that doesn't work for me then I'm gonna go ahead and order up a PS12-NSD. That ought cure this Upgrade-itis for awhile

Excellent.

Although this will treat not cure. There is no permanent cure.

Sadly Murph is correct, unless you are immune to the disease as JohnK is, there are only periods of dormancy.

He was immunized as a child I believe.

Rick, to be more specific, as I've reported here before, I had upgradeitis as a child and apparently developed an immunity.

Several members have contacted me privately regarding the possibility of obtaining a blood sample which they could transfuse, but I can't spare any blood(Ken is probably the only member who'd beat me out in a skinny contest).

LOL

Wow, now my whole idea of what JohnK looks like just changed.

Well I went ahead and did it. I ordered up the EP350, and a set of QS8's. It was originally what I was going to order last month, but thought I would save a few dollars buy skimping on the sub and surround speakers. Nothing against the EP175 but it just wasn't filling the room enough, and I do like alot of bass in my music. And for an extra hundred bucks I thought I might as well upgrade the QS4's too. Brent was very helpful on phone and even told me not to send anything back until I get my new speakers, which I thought was great since I ordered from the FO(4 week wait!)

Excellent! I think you will be much happier with the ep350.

I think you made the right decision.

Axiom's CS is top notch. I liked how I was able to hang onto the M60s till my M80s arrived which allowed for even more time to A/B speakers, I also went through the same QS4 upgrade to QS8's way back when.

I had a similar experience with Brent. I'm exchanging my EP175 for EP350 and was told to keep the 175 until I received the 350. But my reason to upgrade was because I could tell I was over-driving the sub-woofer, for it to supply the volume I was looking for.

Now thats what I call fast!!

Ordered my EP350 and QS8's on June 11 and just got the email yesterday that they are on their way. Not bad considering it was from the FO and not expecting them in until at least the first week of July!

AXIOM U ROCK!

You should have them set up just in time for the weekend!